E + P jacks for wheel changing (1 Viewer)

[DavidG58]

I had a potential problem with a rear wheel 'wobble' slightly concerned that it might be a loose wheel nut following service last month, a mechanic friend came up with tools to check the wheel nuts, all good

He then suggested rotating the wheels on the axle, which meant removing them, but he hadn't brought a jack, we don't carry one, but I told him I could lift the back to get the wheels off with my levelling jacks

Well I thought I could, deployed jacks, full stretch, not off ground , had to put blocks under pads to raise their height, then it worked, but only just

made a mental note to put in some wooden blocks in case we needed to do the same at the roadside

then rethought and decided that didn't seem right, so let jacks up, removed blocks, lifted one side only, now well clear of the ground

well at least as clear as it was with the blocks under lifting rear only

So I don't need to carry wooden blocks after all

But I couldn't achieve the same as other E + P owners and lift the all the MH wheels off the ground in one go

everydays a school day

 

[funflair]

Your chassis isn't as deep as ours David so not as much room for a longer ram body, and some of the lighter chassis have the double rams.

Anyway what was the wobble?

Martin

 

[Robert Clark]

With our jacks fully extended we can get all 4 wheels off the ground.
I did make some blocks for extra extension but never used them.

Did you find out what was wrong with the wheel David?

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[andy63]

I don't understand that David. .. your jacks have the capacity (extension )available to get one side up with wheels off ground... but not when you deploy all the jacks... is that what you are saying??
Why would they not achieve the same extension (providing there is sufficient oil capacity in system )whichever way or however many you deploy....
I'll have to think some more
Why do I read these threads lol I just confuse myself
Andy

 

[gus-lopez]

I don't understand that David. .. your jacks have the capacity (extension )available to get one side up with wheels off ground... but not when you deploy all the jacks... is that what you are saying??
Why would they not achieve the same extension (providing there is sufficient oil capacity in system )whichever way or however many you deploy....
I'll have to think some more
Why do I read these threads lol I just confuse myself
Andy

& I agree. If it will lift one side alone then it should lift the whole as one. Subject to fluid availability.

 

[andy63]

& I agree. If it will lift one side alone then it should lift the whole as one. Subject to fluid availability.

Thank God someone agrees lol... me head was in a muddle trying to figure out what point I was missing (as usual)
Andy

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Tea Bag]

Hi.
" Don't teach your grandma' how to suck eggs/belt and Braces". But.
Pressed a wrong button again... Please use a "Catch" support if using jacks to change a wheel,for if a pipe blows,it will come down quicker than you can move,thats why JCB's come with a Bucket arm lock and if you worked for the first crowd i did on tippers,if working under an unpropped body,you got a clout. I have had one go at full tip,it was down,nearly breaking the chassis,while i first heard the bang and felt the first drops of oil hitting me stood alongside.
Tea Bag

 

[Robert Clark]

Hi.
" Don't teach your grandma' how to suck eggs/belt and Braces". But.
Pressed a wrong button again... Please use a "Catch" support if using jacks to change a wheel,for if a pipe blows,it will come down quicker than you can move,thats why JCB's come with a Bucket arm lock and if you worked for the first crowd i did on tippers,if working under an unpropped body,you got a clout. I have had one go at full tip,it was down,nearly breaking the chassis,while i first heard the bang and felt the first drops of oil hitting me stood alongside.
Tea Bag

I understand that Goldschmidt levellers don't suffer with that potential safety issue.

 

[eddie]

Goldschmidt have a wheel change option on the main menu

On my motorhome I can lift all six wheels easily clear of the ground, but still carry a Heavy Duty bottle jack for belt and braces before I would risk going underneath the camper

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[laird of Dunstan]

My wheels lift clear of the ground on the manual setting ,i still have the ALCO stabilisers so in the event of needing to change a wheel ,i would crank them into place as a safety back up

 

[Steve and Denise]

I always use a support under the chassie when working under the van with legs extended ours is a tag and all six come of the ground totally by the way you must do this in manual mode.
I have sometimes used a couple of blocks under the front rams on extream gradients.

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

I understand that Goldschmidt levellers don't suffer with that potential safety issue.

All hydraulic rams will drop if a hose bursts. Some have a burst valve in the ram that will operate if the oil flow (due to a burst hose) is too high and lock the ram.
The problem is that to operate the valve, there has to be an oil loss and if you were underneath you could still be crushed before the valve operates.
No matter how I have lifted a vehicle I always use an axle stand and if not available then wedge the spare wheel between the ground and chassis.
Never would I go under unless something solid was going to prevent any loss of height as it only needs to trap you a little to prevent you breathing .

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[cornish boy]

I don't know but would guess that the ram isn't extending any further when only lifting one side as it was when lifting both.

I suspect a bit of Pythagoras's theory would provide the answer!

My thoughts are the angle caused by only lifting one side combined with the weight pushing on the other suspension unit gave you the extra height.

In agreement with everyone about making sure you have a physical stop under anything supported by hydraulics or pneumatics. Axle stands are cheap enough nowadays and might just be the best £20 you ever spent...

 

[Geo]

My wheels lift clear of the ground on the manual setting ,i still have the ALCO stabilisers so in the event of needing to change a wheel ,i would crank them into place as a safety back up

Not recommended

 

[DavidG58]

I don't understand that David. .. your jacks have the capacity (extension )available to get one side up with wheels off ground... but not when you deploy all the jacks... is that what you are saying??
Why would they not achieve the same extension (providing there is sufficient oil capacity in system )whichever way or however many you deploy....
I'll have to think some more
Why do I read these threads lol I just confuse myself
Andy

& I agree. If it will lift one side alone then it should lift the whole as one. Subject to fluid availability.

Baffled me for a bit, but think it is just basic physics, trying to lift both rear wheels the suspension drops the wheels on both sides, possibly aided / aggravated by the interlink with the air suspension which also releases the air when the jacks are deployed

But lift one side only, with the other rear still on the ground it acts as a pivot, well that's what I put it down to



edit plus what @cornish boy just wrote while I was waffling

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[DavidG58]

On the safety side, we only took the wheels off, at no point were either of us under anything other than up to Marks elbows maybe

But don't tyre shops only use a trolley jack to achieve what we did? same risk? but they are not underneath either I guess

Wouldn't dream of going under, with or without supports, when ours does come down it goes really low at the rear especially due to no air till it reinflates

 

[DavidG58]

With our jacks fully extended we can get all 4 wheels off the ground.
I did make some blocks for extra extension but never used them.

Did you find out what was wrong with the wheel David?

hello Robert

No fault found, all nuts secure, no bulges on the tyres, no obvious shape issues

Mark (my mechanic mate) thinks it might either be a balance weight lost when removed for service, or even put back on in different positions. The rears on mine are twin wheels bolted on same studs, we have now rotated all wheels so they are in different positions on axle, will not know till driven next. Going to try this weekend and go down to tyre place for balancing if not improved

It is not a serious wobble, just that being a MH things shake more than they might in a van , my real fear was loose nuts

 

[Silver-Fox]

I don't know but would guess that the ram isn't extending any further when only lifting one side as it was when lifting both.

I suspect a bit of Pythagoras's theory would provide the answer!

My thoughts are the angle caused by only lifting one side combined with the weight pushing on the other suspension unit gave you the extra height.

In agreement with everyone about making sure you have a physical stop under anything supported by hydraulics or pneumatics. Axle stands are cheap enough nowadays and might just be the best £20 you ever spent...

Glad we didn't tell the coal miners this when i worked for Dowty Pit Props . We would never have sold anything

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Robert Clark]

All hydraulic rams will drop if a hose bursts. Some have a burst valve in the ram that will operate if the oil flow (due to a burst hose) is too high and lock the ram.
The problem is that to operate the valve, there has to be an oil loss and if you were underneath you could still be crushed before the valve operates.
No matter how I have lifted a vehicle I always use an axle stand and if not available then wedge the spare wheel between the ground and chassis.
Never would I go under unless something solid was going to prevent any loss of height as it only needs to trap you a little to prevent you breathing .

Found this online

 

[Littlewheels]

I carry blocks for the odd uneven ground and if it's grass or soft ground and wet,however, in answer to the hydraulics failing say the base of the jack has a clearance of 300mm/350mm before applying the hydraulics place blocks under and upto the base plate then apply the hydraulics they are then not nessasarily at full stretch and if the fail the base plate lands on the blocks giving you enough space not to get flattened.

 

[pappajohn]

My wheels lift clear of the ground on the manual setting ,i still have the ALCO stabilisers so in the event of needing to change a wheel ,i would crank them into place as a safety back up

As Geo said, not recommended in any circumstances.
Stabilisers are just that...stabilisers.
They aren't designed to take the weight of the van, only to prevent rocking and pitching movement.
They WILL collapse in the event of a jack failure.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[laird of Dunstan]

As Geo said, not recommended in any circumstances.
Stabilisers are just that...stabilisers.
They aren't designed to take the weight of the van, only to prevent rocking and pitching movement.
They WILL collapse in the event of a jack failure.

okay point taken ,ill stick the wife under it instead ,dont want to damage my moho

 

[davejen]

Nowt worse than loose nuts!!
Cheers, Dave

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

Found this online
View attachment 155233

Interesting and probably true if nothing fails.
My work involves extensive hydraulic systems and testing and would never rely on anything hydraulic I have ever seen to trust enough to be underneath it without a solid prop.
I would be keen to see Goldsmitts reply to a direct question 'Could there be any risk if I was underneath the vehicle if a hose failed?'
Seriously, unless the jacks are screw driven rather than hydraulic, I cannot see how it could be locked solid.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Robert Clark]

Interesting and probably true if nothing fails.
My work involves extensive hydraulic systems and testing and would never rely on anything hydraulic I have ever seen to trust enough to be underneath it without a solid prop.
I would be keen to see Goldsmitts reply to a direct question 'Could there be any risk if I was underneath the vehicle if a hose failed?'
Seriously, unless the jacks are screw driven rather than hydraulic, I cannot see how it could be locked solid.

On their product video they specify mention the scenario of a split hose.

Maybe it's why Goldschmidt appears on only the finest Motorhomes?

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

On their product video they specify mention the scenario of a split hose.

Maybe it's why Goldschmidt appears on only the finest Motorhomes?

All I'm saying is to make sure you are safe rather than take any risks.

 

[Tea Bag]

Hi.
Been watching this thread and while reading,thought about the "Scissor? lifts" in garages. Would i be right in thinking they have a locking pin to put in when raised ?. This is not to extend the post/cause another discussion,just to see if remember rightly seeing an operator putting one in.
Tea Bag
PS Aka,Nosey git,love having a look see under whatever i am hurling down the road in!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Steve and Denise]

All hydraulic rams will drop if a hose bursts. Some have a burst valve in the ram that will operate if the oil flow (due to a burst hose) is too high and lock the ram.
The problem is that to operate the valve, there has to be an oil loss and if you were underneath you could still be crushed before the valve operates.
No matter how I have lifted a vehicle I always use an axle stand and if not available then wedge the spare wheel between the ground and chassis.
Never would I go under unless something solid was going to prevent any loss of height as it only needs to trap you a little to prevent you breathing .

If I remember correctly you are like me and not wafer thin so may need a bit more than one spare wheel for clearance.

 

[Speve]

Have you checked the hydraulic oil level it could be low thus not allowing full extension of jacks?

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

If I remember correctly you are like me and not wafer thin so may need a bit more than one spare wheel for clearance.

Truth be told I always have a spare tyre with me

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}