Ducato Indicators (2 Viewers)

[laneside]

I agree, it's obviously a feature some people (see above) like but I find it a pain. I think I've got used to it now but I would prefer a traditional control with three positions and a positive action.

Me also, I think it is totally un-necessary

 

[Lenny HB]

It's not the feature I'm complaining about it is the sensitivity, in any car I've driven with the same feature you have to make a deliberate intended action for it to work, i.e. move the stalk at least 10mm. In the Fiat it is so sensitive that it goes off when you are unaware that you have even touched the stalk.

 

[dave newell]

I've got the second of two X290s in the workshop now, I've measured the stalk movement required to trigger the five flash lane change function and it is 10mm on both in both directions, this is measured at the end of the stalk. i would suggest if anyone has one that triggers at significantly less movement they should talk to their local Fiat commercial dealer about a replacement stalk assembly.

D.

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[DBK]

I've got the second of two X290s in the workshop now, I've measured the stalk movement required to trigger the five flash lane change function and it is 10mm on both in both directions, this is measured at the end of the stalk. i would suggest if anyone has one that triggers at significantly less movement they should talk to their local Fiat commercial dealer about a replacement stalk assembly.

D.

I am not sure you get this problem at all do you? It takes very little force to move it that 10mm, a light touch with the hand sets it off. But for me, the problem is the first time the indicators started flashing of their own free will, so to speak, I had a devil of a job trying to get it to stop. The instinct says if it is flashing right and you don't want it to, move the control to the left, but if you do this too gently it starts another series of flashes but this time on the left hand side. Cancel these and it is flashing on the right again, and so on as you drive off into the distance.

It took me a while to learn the trick of cancelling the indicators if they have started their 5 flashes. Either seems to work, you just need to move the lever to its maximum, either right or left, to a point where it actually clicks, like a good Christian indicator stalk should. When you release it, the flashes will have stopped. What you musn't do is try and cancel the flashes with only a gentle movement of the lever. It needs a good deliberate push.

So in summary, for me and I think a few others, even when it is working as designed we don't like it! Never thought I would call myself a Luddite!

 

[2spritelyislanders]

Finding this thread very reassuring. It's good to know that I'm not the only unintentional Ducato Flasher Have tried all the above techniques i.e. the soft touch, the firm touch, swearing, apologising to anyone travelling behind (even though they can't hear me) blaming Mrs Spritely Islander, all to no avail May go back to hand signals or let Mrs SI drive, her hand signals are very clear to other road users, especially the ones who beep when we flash

 

[dave newell]

I am not sure you get this problem at all do you? It takes very little force to move it that 10mm, a light touch with the hand sets it off. But for me, the problem is the first time the indicators started flashing of their own free will, so to speak, I had a devil of a job trying to get it to stop. The instinct says if it is flashing right and you don't want it to, move the control to the left, but if you do this too gently it starts another series of flashes but this time on the left hand side. Cancel these and it is flashing on the right again, and so on as you drive off into the distance.

It took me a while to learn the trick of cancelling the indicators if they have started their 5 flashes. Either seems to work, you just need to move the lever to its maximum, either right or left, to a point where it actually clicks, like a good Christian indicator stalk should. When you release it, the flashes will have stopped. What you musn't do is try and cancel the flashes with only a gentle movement of the lever. It needs a good deliberate push.

So in summary, for me and I think a few others, even when it is working as designed we don't like it! Never thought I would call myself a Luddite!

I understand the problem well enough, I'm just trying to establish what is the cause as I don't understand WHY it is a problem.

"The problem with ours is it is too sensitive. For example, you put the left indicator on and leave it on to say, make a left turn, you then just touch it to cancel and it bounces so far that it then activates the 5 flashes on the right indicator. Very frustrating for anyone behind you! I've driven other vans with the same system and its never a problem. It just seems like ours is extra sensitive!"

Then Lenny said this:
"It's the same on both later X250's & current x290's, it's a hair trigger only touch the stalk 1mm movement will do it,"

Hence me making the effort to measure the movement required on two separate vans. Lenny says his requires just 1mm of movement to trigger it, I measured two separate vans and found a full 10mm required in both vans on both directions. Now either Lenny is exaggerating a tad or his stalk assembly is faulty.

10mm of travel is not a "hair trigger" to me, it requires a deliberate movement to trigger the five flash function.

D.

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[Lenny HB]

I was exaggerating but not intentionally, I have just measured mine and it takes 5mm movement for the right indicators to flash and 6mm for the left, compared to my car which is 15mm.
A lot of the accidental flahing is not only due to the sensitivity but also the position of the stalk which makes it easy to knock by accident.

 

[jonandshell]

Bloody crap idea!

Our Transit has the same. If you manually cancel an indication because you are, say exiting a roundabout into a left sweeping road, it is easy to flick it too hard and then it starts indicating right for several flashes!

The inability to stop it is the most annoying. What if I, the person IN CONTROL of the bloody van, decide I don't want to change lane after all? The bloody thing keeps going for 6 flashes whether I, THE PERSON IN CONTROL OF THE VAN, want it to or not!

Why can't the people in design departments actually realise that a driver wants to DRIVE a vehicle, not the vehicle drive him?

Its nearly as bad as the auto wipe function on the washers. The bloody thing puts in one last wipe to smear your windscreen once the washer fluid has all gone from the glass!

Rant over!

 

[Chipster]

Maybe 3 flashes would have been better than 5 ?

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[Lenny HB]

Bloody crap idea!

Its nearly as bad as the auto wipe function on the washers. The bloody thing puts in one last wipe to smear your windscreen once the washer fluid has all gone from the glass!

Rant over!

Remember hiring a Tranie a few years ago, trying to change radio channel with the voice command and the wipers came on.

 

[Puddleduck]

It's the same on both later X250's & current x290's, it's a hair trigger only touch the stalk 1mm movement will do it, then the automatic reaction is to cancel the indicator that just sets it off in the other direction, so you end up driving down the road looking like a blithering idiot.
With all these old boys driving Motorhomes perhaps not so far from the truth. Perhaps Fiat realise this and it's a built in safety feature to make other drivers give you a wide berth.

I'd like everyone to keep clear of me when I'm driving....... especially foreign drivers coming towards me in my lane!

That is not the answer to my actual question Lenny, if you leave the indicators to self cancel does it flick so far as to trigger the five flash in the opposite direction? If not then there is not a problem with the equipment, if yes then there is. How many vehicles have you driven that have this feature? I've driven hundreds, literally, hundreds and the first two caught me out then I learned to use the indicator stalk in the way the designers intended. I don't often agree with "designers" but they got this idea right in my book.

D.

One of the problems I have is the van has this but the car doesn't. The car's indicator stalk only moves a small amount but it needs a very positive touch. the van responds to a touch and does the five flashy thing. It is a question of getting used to a different driving style when swapping between the two - but I have to admit I prefer the more basic car system. I thought it was just me that was old fashioned

I agree, it's obviously a feature some people (see above) like but I find it a pain. I think I've got used to it now but I would prefer a traditional control with three positions and a positive action.

I like to have to put positive pressure on something..... and as others have said driving position can mean one can touch controls without meaning to.

 

[dave newell]

So can we conclude that as no one has answered my question that the problem is not actually faulty equipment?

D.

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[callumwa]

Seems we just have a load of random old flashers on here.......

 

[DBK]

So can we conclude that as no one has answered my question that the problem is not actually faulty equipment?

D.

Yes! And I don't think anyone else ever thought it was. It is the design we don't like.

 

[dave newell]

But a couple of people said that it was the stalk was too sensitive and that it would "bounce and trigger the opposite direction" when cancelled, I just wanted to be sure we had reached a conclusion to this.

D.

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[TheCaller]

So can we conclude that as no one has answered my question that the problem is not actually faulty equipment?

D.

The equipment itself is not faulty, in that it is acting as apparently designed. I haven't experienced the bounce to the opposite action. When I first got the van, I did trigger it when trying to cancel, but soon learned that you couldn't cancel. I still do give the opposite signal deliberately on occasion, if I feel that it will be less confusing to the following driver - as in "No, it's ok, I'm not really going to attempt that suicidal manoeuvre I just suggested".

However, if a significant number of users, as evidenced by this thread, find that the equipment is difficult to use without inadvertently giving misleading signals to other road users, I think we can conclude that the design is faulty.

The idea behind the design is good. The implementation is poor. The control requires a very delicate touch at all times to work as designed - both to get it to give just the 'lane change without the need to cancel' & to not give the flashes inadvertently. There is little difference in pressure between the quick flick & the 'on & stay' & neither requires much pressure.

It may be that Italians & motor sport drivers have super-sensitive fingers, or are able to comfortably always hold their hands in the 'ten to two' position, both of which seem to be requirements for successful & reliable operation.

Most converters change the seats. It may be that the driving position in a converted van is not the same as when it left the factory. In addition, it always used to be the case that a long legged driver of an Italian designed car had difficulty reaching the steering wheel when they had the seat at the correct distance for their leg length.

 

[Puddleduck]

@TheCaller , I suspect you are correct with your summary in your last post #46

 

[Photo4x4]

Phew...I'm pleased to see that someone else has done this as I was beginning to think that I'd lost my dexterity!

KH

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[TheCaller]

@TheCaller , I suspect you are correct with your summary in your last post #46

If I wasn't such a modest chap I would say that I suspect that your supposition could be correct.

Anyway - what do you mean 'summary' That was almost a full blown essay!