charging for hook ups (1 Viewer)

ronidog1

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I am hoping you may give me some opinions - I am sure you will!

Currently I am helping a small enterprise set up a certificated site and are exploring the service they could offer.

They have been offered a metered system for each hook up. The camper would then pay for the electric used when leaving the site. Some van owners have suggested that this is the best system as the site owner does not end up with a large electric bill if appliances are left on in the van. This is not a system I am familiar with.

Any thoughts....
 

pappajohn

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Sounds reasonable to me...but whats to stop folks simply driving off without paying ?

Token, key or pre-paid card meters would be better in my view.

No different to paying for hookup on a regular site....i doubt many folks use all what they pay for.

Trickery is around 16p per KW....£3 of hookup will buy around 19kw, thats a lot of trickery every day.

Of course, the site owner charges a rent on the equipment and a nominal fee for electric....you cannot sell electric at a higher price than it is bought at from the supplier....so the actual wattage given would be far less than 19kw.
 
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trekkin

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Lot of messing around for a one or two night stay, I know this system is used on seasonal/residential pitches and works fine, but for me, touring, I like to know what I am paying per night including EHU.
Drive in
Pay up
Park up
Leave
Would not want to wait around for someone to come and read the meter, or give me back the credit on my electricity card.
 

tonka

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As well as the drive off issue, check the law... I am sure there is something that states you cannot charge more than what the Electricity is being supplied at.. This being the case it will be hard for the site owner to recover any cash to pay for the meters etc...

This may be it. !!!
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/74486/11782-resaleupdateoct05.pdf

Maybe the answer is to only give a limited supply ie 6amps... It's a basic amount but will stop people running big electric heaters all night etc....
 

pappajohn

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As well as the drive off issue, check the law... I am sure there is something that states you cannot charge more than what the Electricity is being supplied at.. This being the case it will be hard for the site owner to recover any cash to pay for the meters etc...

This may be it. !!!
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/74486/11782-resaleupdateoct05.pdf
As i said in my previous post....the site owner can legally charge a rent for the use of the hookup service but yes, they cant charge more for electric than they pay the supplier.
the profit is in the rental for the equipment.

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Old Soldier

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As well as the drive off issue, check the law... I am sure there is something that states you cannot charge more than what the Electricity is being supplied at.. This being the case it will be hard for the site owner to recover any cash to pay for the meters etc...

This may be it. !!!
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/74486/11782-resaleupdateoct05.pdf

As I understand it, electric cannot be resold as a separate charge to non electric pitch fees if it has not been metered, this project is for installed metering so I believe should be ok.
 

pappajohn

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As I understand it, electric cannot be resold as a separate charge to non electric pitch fees if it has not been metered, this project is for installed metering so I believe should be ok.
Puzzled !!!!!

Why would there be any charge to non electric pitches.

Non metered electric maybe cant be resold.....but the equipment rental (use of hookup post and infrastruture) charges will include a "hidden" charge for electric used.

Anyone can fit a private meter, even in your own home, but electric used still has to be paid for somewhere along the way.
 
Feb 24, 2013
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We had to buy a prepaid (£5) token on a site near Buxton last year, told there were no refunds for unused, when I went to put my token in our post we already had £3 credit, but that ran out on day 2, so put ours in and then ended up leaving a £4 credit

2 things got me, I begrudged the wasted £1, silly when fuel alone had cost us £30+ to get there and then site fees over £50

but not knowing how long it would last and would it run out in middle of night, there was no clue as to how many Kwhrs we had bought

I can see that sites can take a battering from greedy gits who will leave heating on and doors open or even heat awnings, (more of a caravan thing) I guess those few have again cocked it up for the rest of us

I would prefer an all inclusive price though
 
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pappajohn

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But electric wont be offered to a non electric pitch, or if its declined on an electric pitch, and the basic pitch fee will reflect that.
i guess there may be some Arthurs out there who may include electric regardless of want or need but im sure they will be few and far between.

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madgeD

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As I understand it the site owner can't sell electric! So how the clubs get around it is ,so much per person plus a pitch fee ! What you will have to decide is how much.

We were on a C.C site on the parking place near storage as the ground was flooded in places! We didn't have electric, but were charged the same as others that had. I went back and complained, they told me they didn't charge for electric!!

Clever that.
 

Lenny HB

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When we were tuggers stayed at loads of sites in Germany most had metered Electric. A stellaplatz we stayed on a few years ago every place had a EHU bollard that was coin in the slot.
Metering is much fairer, I dislike paying for things I don't need, do not like the current trend of CL's & CS's putting EHU in and charging a flat pitch fee with no discount if you don't use it.
 
Apr 22, 2013
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Yes the German's seem to have the situation sorted.
A number of StellPlatz I've seen offer lecky at 2 euros for 24 hours or 2 units.
Now a euro per unit is expense lecky, but when spread over 24 hours a fully charged battery for 2 euros sounds reasonable to me.

Sadly the resale of lecky act prevents the system being installed here.
 

scotjimland

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Our friends in Colchester own The Lodge CL, due to crippling leccy bills caused by abuse of the EHU during winter, they installed pre paid meters .. you buy a card when you arrive for whatever amount you want , I think they have £3 , £5 and £10 cards.. if you don't use it all you are refunded when you leave..

They charge the going commercial rate per kwh .. (higher than domestic) since installing the site now makes a small profit instead of a huge debt...

A 16A EHU can supply 3.68kw.. so let's say someone with a 3kw fan heater had it running for 12 hours.. that would be 36kwh .. if the site owner were paying it would be costing them £5.76 .. if it were on 24hours.. £11.52 .. at this time they were charging just £12 per night .. not sustainable. and not fair to the owner.

At first there was some resistance form the 'regulars' who were used to unlimited leccy at £12 per night.. but when explained, they saw the reason..

This is all perfectly legal and within the OFGEM guide lines

Metering or charging per unit is the ONLY fair way.. I wish more sites would adopt this method .. but large sites already charge more than enough with pitch fees to cover even the most abusive user.. for example..

Church Farm Site in Aldeburgh.. charge £22 mid season, for a non serviced grass pitch... serviced pitch with EHU £30 .. IMO .. a rip off ..but while people pay it, they will charge..

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laird of Dunstan

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My yacht club had a system where you bought pre paid cards they were priced at £1.00 £3.00 and £5.00 , this system seemed to work as I never heard any complaints about it.
Small sites that are run as a business need to make a small profit or they will stop offering the service. The cost of installing lecky at a site is not cheap ,the cable has to be a minimum of 0.6 meters under the ground and the installation requires testing to British standards every three years .
Scottjimland is right on the button with his costings .
 

DBK

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I think the people operating the site, which if it is for a CL type will be limited to 5 pitches, need to decide how much hassle they want. Coin operated meters will need to be emptied and they may need to be on hand to offer change if the place is out in the sticks. Meters will need to be read when they arrive and leave so they will need to be around all day - for five pitches if they are full, which for most of the year they won't be.

If it was me I would have an extra charge for those who want electricity, which might be higher in the winter, and set the rate so that overall they don't lose money over a year.

I've only ever been on a couple of places where they metered the electricity and it was a pain and the cost was about the same as I would normally pay when there is a fixed charge.

Might also be worth considering that in the UK metering is not common. They need to speak with other CL owners in other parts of the country and see what there experience is.
 

old-mo

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Interesting thread...... (y)

Is there any way you could put some sort of unit on outside elec point`s (Normal Caravan hook up socket`s) to limit the amount of electric drawn..??

So that those plugged in will only use enough to say charge battery`s and run a couple of "Low" power drawing items..


With the emphasis on being cheap to install.. :)
 

laird of Dunstan

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The only way that you could do that is by limiting the size of the breaker ,as smartphone become more widely used I forsee a system like you have with parking where you can dial up and pay
 
Feb 24, 2013
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I have heard mention on here of Kw/hr daily limits set by the site per pitch, seems to apply to continental sites, no idea how that would work in reality, but it sounds like a useful alternative

I think the reference I saw was a site in Spain
 

laird of Dunstan

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That rule was brought in to stop greedy landlords ripping off their tenants ,you can't charge more than it costs
 
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Deleted member 29692

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How about using some kind of non standard plug & socket and charging a rental fee for use of a lead that will fit?

I know such things are available for internal 13A arrangements so surely someone makes at 16A external version.

Even use something like a 32A red 5 pin plug and socket on the hookup end with a normal 16A socket on the van end. Perfectly safe and I doubt many people will have something like that in their van.

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madgeD

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I agree the C.C do charge far to much , but to have a choice of other sites we want to pay a reasonable rate that doesn't mean the site owner is hugely out of pocket and ends up closing!

I have seen on C.C sites people with heaters blazing away in awnings with nobody sat there, when we have been out walking the dogs at night!! That is because they have paid so they are Using it!

Something like the Municipals in France.

Meters do seem the fairest way to go that way you will limit your use.
 

scotjimland

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Landy lover

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Simplest way was one I saw each pitch had a prepay meter the charge was 12.50 including EHU per night when we arrived the chap showed us the pitch - we were there for 2 night so he put 5 x £1 coins in the metre and there was a small amount left by previous occupant - if you want more you pay for it - simples
 

Jaws

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There is a small site just outside Dover we once used.. It had coin slot meters fitted.
At the time I thought it was a good option as it allowed for those who did not want or need hook up to avoid paying extra

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