Calling all Electrobods:= 50amp - REALLY ? (wind turbine)

Marauder

Marauder

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Location
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77,809
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Adria Compact SP
Exp
20 yr
Hi Folks,

There's a lot more wind than sun in Scotland (IMHO) - so pressing forward with turbine idea, I bought smallest (cheapest) rated at 600w x 12v.
( <Broken link removed> )

So now need some cable. Looking at online conversion tells me this equates to 50amps (shock horror) !!

Assuming that a hookup cable is domestic 13A rated, that means 50A cable would resemble mooring ropes for a supertanker,
and probable cost dollarbucks.

My kit is apparently 3phase A/C, with three identical unmarked wires from the alternator/ generator, relating to three identical unmarked wires into the charge controller.

The 2x sets of 3 are not identical diameter cores, but are 'normal' looking cables appear approx similar to domestic 13A cable. ( Charge controller also has red+Black output cables )

So what's confusing me is how 'normal looking' cable (13amp-ish) could cope with 50A current when 50/13=3.8.

Apparently 3.8 times it's rated capacity - so what am I missing here ?

By now it's becoming obvious that I'm not a sparky, (but I DO know it makes my arm tingle: encounters with HT leads have taught me that!)

All help & advice grateful - as always
 
My RV had the original American 120v hookup cable rated at 50amps.
It was as thick as my index finger
 
It's because the voltage is so low. Maybe car battery cable would be best. It must have an invertor or transformer to step up the voltage and reduce the amperage.
 
That seems a lot of power!

How big is it? 😳

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Single core 6mm is rated at 50amps but depends on cable length involved so you may have to go up to 10mm.
 
I can't see that being 600w. More like 60w.

I noticed in the description it said "MODEL: 600w 12v" so maybe it's just the model number 🤔
 
Marauder said:
Hi Folks,

There's a lot more wind than sun in Scotland (IMHO) - so pressing forward with turbine idea, I bought smallest (cheapest) rated at 600w x 12v.
( <Broken link removed> )

So now need some cable. Looking at online conversion tells me this equates to 50amps (shock horror) !!

Assuming that a hookup cable is domestic 13A rated, that means 50A cable would resemble mooring ropes for a supertanker,
and probable cost dollarbucks.

My kit is apparently 3phase A/C, with three identical unmarked wires from the alternator/ generator, relating to three identical unmarked wires into the charge controller.

The 2x sets of 3 are not identical diameter cores, but are 'normal' looking cables appear approx similar to domestic 13A cable. ( Charge controller also has red+Black output cables )

So what's confusing me is how 'normal looking' cable (13amp-ish) could cope with 50A current when 50/13=3.8.

Apparently 3.8 times it's rated capacity - so what am I missing here ?

By now it's becoming obvious that I'm not a sparky, (but I DO know it makes my arm tingle: encounters with HT leads have taught me that!)

All help & advice grateful - as always
Click to expand...
You will never see 50a from that generator, it’s physically and mathematically impossible, even at 12m/s, close to self destruction speed. You will see maybe a 18-20a at 11m/s bursts, but, majority of time 5-8m/s you will be very very happy to see 70-80w out of it. Be prepared to see allot less than that to. I have a 500w Chinese rating, with all sweep diameter of 1,2m, and has Chinese windings with small magnets, very poor. In winds of 8m/s ive seen 140w max at 14v, so that’s a 10a. This is a horizontal axis, as well, expect less from your vertical axis. The 600w implied, is possible with a good generator windings, rare earth neodymium magnets, and at least 1,8m diameter sweep. Maths don’t lie.

You will be very safe to run 6mm2 times 3 from turbine to controller, up to 10m ish.
 
Do a search on amazon for "Lantern wind turbine generator"
Very similar ones come up, they've all either got no reviews or 1 star reviews saying they generate next to nothing ☹️
 
Richard n Ann said:
I can't see that being 600w. More like 60w.

I noticed in the description it said "MODEL: 600w 12v" so maybe it's just the model number 🤔
Click to expand...
It does seem strange I agree.

@marauDid you work our the 50a or is it in the instructions

Is there some instructions with the controller

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Sorry to put a downer on it but wind turbines are waste of time for a Motorhome and the vertical blade ones are worse than the conventional type. No way is that one going to produce 600 watts, 60 maybe. To get any sort of output from them you need a gale force wind. I don't think you need to worry about the cable the output will be so low. The output from the regulator will be around 14,4v and from the turbine 18v or more thats what you use for cable calculations.
Also you probably need a 40ft mast to get it in clear air.
Another reason they are not good for a Motohome is the constant noise from them.

Here is a review of a similar one.

 
Watts= volts x amps
600/12= 50

That's the maths ,anyway.
 
One comment under the video says the seller doesn't mention in what time frame the 600w is generated so it's not actually miss advertising... 🤔 It's probably 0.6kwy then (kilowatt years😆)
 
Jimbohorlicks said:
Watts= volts x amps
600/12= 50

That's the maths ,anyway.
Click to expand...
Nope the output will be 18 to 25v, you need 14.4v to charge a battery and it has to be a few volts higher than the regulator output.

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These cheap PWM controllers start to charge 1-2v above battery voltage. The generator can do 40v but only 14v passes. Unless you have a supper dupper midnite solar controller, or a buck-boost to take any voltage to make power, the controller is another impediment for making power from a already weak generator. The blades on a vertical axis has counter forces that stops some of its efficiency to. For a static, low power and combined with solar, a small turbine on a solid 20’ plus pole it can be useful in winter time. I know, we have one, but I know it’s limits.
 
If I were full timing and liked remote coastal locations then I think they are worthwhile.

Otherwise they are a nuisance.

The best place to get one would be a chandlery.
 
I'm brought to mind of an old adage that goes something along the lines of " No man with a watermill ever built a windmill " I've been unable to find it written anywhere,but you sort of get the gist of it,unless you've got one of them chuffing great Vesta types of turbine.
I've seena few on narrow boats,but that may well work better than panels due to shading, and wind getting funnelled along the river/canal course.
Mike
 
Richard n Ann said:
600/12 = 50 amps 👍
Click to expand...
Yeah. I can kind of work that out for myself. I was asking whether the instruction stated the 50a and that would suggest they were claiming it was really 600w.

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Lenny HB said:
Sorry to put a downer on it but wind turbines are waste of time for a Motorhome and the vertical blade ones are worse than the conventional type. No way is that one going to produce 600 watts, 60 maybe. To get any sort of output from them you need a gale force wind. I don't think you need to worry about the cable the output will be so low. The output from the regulator will be around 14,4v and from the turbine 18v or more thats what you use for cable calculations.
Also you probably need a 40ft mast to get it in clear air.
Another reason they are not good for a Motohome is the constant noise from them.

Here is a review of a similar one.

Click to expand...

Does he want it for a motorhome?
 
gpat said:
Yeah. I can kind of work that out for myself. I was asking whether the instruction stated the 50a and that would suggest they were claiming it was really 600w.
Click to expand...
Just rig it up with a old hoover flex (other appliances are available but generally last longer) as it will never put out enough watts to trouble said flex ....!🤣🤣🤣
 
Hi Folks

Thanks all for opinion & input. This is only beginning of a probably long saga / journey !

There's no instructions to speak of, just a few dodgy photos with arrows and pidgin pseudo chinglish.

Reason for it is: being completely off-grid in the really far north. when the sun stops working (despite pleading) , batteries go down & I've no heating (might buy a parafin heater!) Even driving for 2 hours does not put a full charge into hab batts, and fuel is now £2/lit. (Plus, Sun is in space, so it probably only understands Klingon).

Reason for the 50A query is, i was thinking about using a 3 core hookup cable to keep the unit noise away from the van, and keep the controller near the batteries. From what you are saying - that should not be a problem apart from voltage drop in cable.

The blades ARE a problem. I think the root of inefficiency is blades. They all utilise inefficient physics theory. There must be better ways to use 100% of the available wind (I have ideas). This is only an initial trial.

I have been thinking of experimenting with vehicle alternator, but they typically run at 3 or 4 times engine speed so would need the gearing of a similar big pulley / little pulley arrangement to attain exit velocity.

Like putting a fan near open window in hot weather. Has no effect until you put the fan in a tube, seal edge of tube to window frame gap, and open window in other room. I applied this to my loft hatch. It extracts hot air from top of room, and blows even hotter air from loft so ceiling ceases to act as a radiator. Throughflow is controlled by varying degree of window openings in various rooms. (downstairs on lee side of house, upstairs on sunheated side). And 3 speed fan.

Similarly with wind turbine. The wind chooses least resistance = design failure to allow that to happen.

The key is the blades, just poking something you saw in a dream into the air and shouting at it won't cut it. (anyway, the wind comes from Scandinavia so it probably can't understand English).

Also interested in what Raul said about "supper dupper midnite solar controller, or a buck-boost" - how would these help ?
.
.
 
Midnite solar classic, it’s a solar wind hydro controller, made in USA. You will find it in UK for sure. It has software and hardware with algorithms for each source. Wind is quite different than solar, and hydro is also quite different to. This controller has buck, no boost, but quite capable to extract every W out of a turbine without stalling. There are buck boost wind controllers 1k up, that’s something to use with a 1kw up turbines, because of cost. I was very close in getting a down wind no furling nemo 2kw turbine. After I had a anemometer on site for owner a year, I gave up due to cost, and settled for a small 1,2m turbine for low power, lighting net monitoring etc. It works in winter few weeks, then becomes a ornament for the rest 10 months or so. Not worth it for me.
In Scotland, I would have a Rutland, or a nemo. Search YouTube for nemo wind turbine. Nemo comes with its own built in buck boost mppt, but you need a good pole to capture the undisturbed wind. Turbulent wind is not good. That means, you need to get above any obstacle within 50m around you. Any trees roof tops or hills, will disturb the wind. Tree blade aerofoil design on horizontal axis, it’s the most efficient up to date turbine you can buy. The verticals are ok off shore on buoys or rigs, where wind is abundant. A leading edge in this example is a good choice, but pricey. Leading edge I believe is made in UK.
 
Very unlikely to give you 600W, as Raul says. But even if it did, it's 3-phase from the turbine to the controller, so that's 200W per phase. Not only that, but the voltage will probably be higher too, so if for example it's 40V, that would need only 200 / 40 = 5A along each of the three wires. More if the voltage is lower.

The need for big thick copper wires for modest power at 12V is the main reason why houses are wired with 240V not 12V

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