C.C.& C. Club ! What a bunch of bankers !! (1 Viewer)

[canopus]

Have just priced a five pitch CS up with C&CC. On the website and in the book £13 to £14. Emailed the owners and they want £16 a night for a Sunday & Monday.

Its only got electric, water, Elsan disposal and a nice view. In comparison, it's £18 a night midweek at the nearby CC site with showers, washing, machines, wifi etc. Is this another case of rip off Britain?

 

[GJH]

Have just priced a five pitch CS up with C&CC. On the website and in the book £13 to £14. Emailed the owners and they want £16 a night for a Sunday & Monday.

Its only got electric, water, Elsan disposal and a nice view. In comparison, it's £18 a night midweek at the nearby CC site with showers, washing, machines, wifi etc. [HI]Is this another case of rip off Britain?[/HI]

If they can fill their CS when charging £16 a night it is simply supply and demand. If they deter bookings at that price it is silly and the business will fail.

 

[GJH]

As many of you know I owe a CS with C&CC and we have had an email from them saying that from 2015 we are not able to advertise ANYWHERE except our own website (if we have one). We are not happy (polite term) and will seriously be thinking of leaving them as a CS as most of our business comes from advertising on the free camping web site ie [HI]uk campsite[/HI], 5 van etc.
They are not my most favourite people at the moment and I'm sure other CS owners think the same.
So with their new pricing and over the top rules I think they will lose lots of customers.
Rant over

As far as UK Campsite goes (don't know others) I don't think you have full control over entries do you? I thought anyone could supply details of a site they had found and liked.

If you do leave the C&CC then the MCC may be worth considering as they don't insist on a members only rule for their CLs.

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[pappajohn]

stayed 3 nights on Cranberry moss a couple of years back.

£13pn, pitch big enough for a 33ft rv with electric.

Wont go back....absolutely f### all to do without a bus ride, nearest pub 2mls and not on a bus route, nowt on site at the time (looks like the built a 'club' house since.

Forced membership of c&cc because of the need of arrival breakdown cover otherwise i would not renew.

 

[Yorick]

These clubs don't seem very friendly and too many rules and petty officialdom.

We always stay away from that sort of things and enjoy our own things and quiet spots

 

[TheBig1]

As many of you know I owe a CS with C&CC and we have had an email from them saying that from 2015 we are not able to advertise ANYWHERE except our own website (if we have one). We are not happy (polite term) and will seriously be thinking of leaving them as a CS as most of our business comes from advertising on the free camping web site ie uk campsite, 5 van etc.
They are not my most favourite people at the moment and I'm sure other CS owners think the same.
So with their new pricing and over the top rules I think they will lose lots of customers.
Rant over

i was under the impression that JJim has the ability to appoint 5van sites as certified locations for motorhome fun under the clubs exemption certificate

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[pappajohn]

These clubs don't seem very friendly and too many rules and petty officialdom.

We always stay away from that sort of things and enjoy our own things and quiet spots

nowhere near as bad as the caravan club....bunch of pompous twa#s full of their own importance.
Kicked them into touch a long time ago.

 

[Yorick]

nowhere near as bad as the caravan club....bunch of pompous twa#s full of their own importance.
Kicked them into touch a long time ago.

Most clubs in any field, do seem to breed self importance

 

[SUGGY]

We joined the c&cc after dumping the cc ... fed up with the " oh your in a motorhome " attitude and charging for car , caravan , awning , electric, plug in tv etc etc when all we need is a place to park

we use the THS and the DA meets very cheap even at peak times also the Motor caravaners Section , well organised , usually on a bus route and a pub / social room nearby , winter time usually hard standing and you rarely need to book , :Cool:

No EHU on most of the above but we are self sufficient with solar etc,:thumb:

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[GJH]

We are in the C&CC and MCC for meets and THSs, which is what we use in the main now. There is also access to the CS/CL networks (the main reason we also continue with CC membership).

Having said that, we just spent three nights at CC Chapel Lane for £59.70. It was worth it because it was convenient for what we wanted to do. We had no hassle at all with the site wardens, each of whom was friendly when I spoke to them.

 

[scotjimland]

Been a CC member for many years and have no issues..
We mainly use CLs , the main reason for joining, but also club sites when they are where we want to be.. they are always spotless and well run..
If you want a karaoke bar and club house, they may not be for you. We like them because they DON'T have them..

If all you want is a parking place with no facilities why would you join ?

If you need a bar, Brit stops would be better choice, but it won't work out cheaper.. last time I looked at a pub menu I had to find my glasses to make sure I was seeing correctly.. and the pub wasn't called Robin Bar-Stewards .. .. but it should have been..

Soup of the Day at £5 .. main coarse around £12 + a couple of drinks, £6 = £36 for two. no thanks.. I'd rather pay club subs + site fees..


In the last decade or so, all forms of camping have become more popular... at the same time total number of pitches has fallen.. Many CL/Cs s have closed and big sites are sold or devolved for more lucrative uses.. this can only lead to higher prices , especially in the peak periods. .. get used to it people.. it's called supply and demand..

 

[chaser]

i was under the impression that JJim has the ability to appoint 5van sites as certified locations for motorhome fun under the clubs exemption certificate

I have a piece of ground that would do for 5 vans, but can't be doing with clubs or council, but if Jim would like to fix it I would do it for a fiver a night , no toilets or emptying or electric just a water tap, in a working yard with open country views , so not suitable for small kids but if you wanted to do small repairs while here we have a pit in a shed big enough for most mhs,that you could hire for a small sum and a pub across the road that does meals, close to uttoxeter and not far from Alton towers.
Very rough and ready but cheap:thumb:

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[rangi]

We are giving the C&CC the deep six this year too, their pricing is well out of order!

 

[mikebeaches]

We are giving the C&CC the deep six this year too, their pricing is well out of order!

Any increased charge is unwelcome to say the least, but it's their new system for pricing that hacks me off... And they make it so damn difficult to find out what it is going to cost.

Last Friday we stayed at one of their prime sites in the south-west. The weather was lovely, but there was hardly a soul there. I do wonder if they've shot themselves in the foot?

Obviously, they'll no doubt get the business in the school holidays. But every on-line forum I've read, there is a great deal of unhappiness about the new system. It smacks of the 'Ryanair' way of doing business, not a members' club!

(PS Ryanair, is actually improving at the moment, hard to believe I know, but true)

I do like the temporary holidays sites however, and the CSs are okay by and large.

Mike

 

[Jim]

i was under the impression that JJim has the ability to appoint 5van sites as certified locations for motorhome fun under the clubs exemption certificate

Yes we could exempt Dylan's place. However if you are running a CL for anything other than love, you really need the pulling power of one of the big organsisations. If a CL is in the CC or C&CC guides then it is seen by many hundreds of thousands and you have a much better chance of filling the site.

Essentially the law says that users of the site must be members of the of the club that issued the exemption, so why go with a small club like Fun, you'd miss out on a million caravan owners. The MCC flout the legislation and allow the public to use sites they have exempted, so that might be an option for Dylan, however I have a feeling that this may be challenged very soon.

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[Wildman]

The MCC flout the legislation and allow the public to use sites they have exempted?

Unfair Jim, the MCC have always allowed non members to use their sites, When Natural England took over the licencing they had no choice but to allow it to continue. They are NOT flouting the law.

 

[GJH]

Yes we could exempt Dylan's place. However if you are running a CL for anything other than love, you really need the pulling power of one of the big organsisations. If a CL is in the CC or C&CC guides then it is seen by many hundreds of thousands and you have a much better chance of filling the site.

[HI]Essentially the law says that users of the site must be members of the of the club that issued the exemption[/HI], so why go with a small club like Fun, you'd miss out on a million caravan owners. [HI]The MCC flout the legislation and allow the public to use sites they have exempted,[/HI] so that might be an option for Dylan, however I have a feeling that this may be challenged very soon.

I don't think either of those statements are accurate, Jim.

Para 5(2) of the First Schedule of the 1960 Act simply says "For the purposes of this paragraph an exempted organisation may issue as respects any land a certificate stating that the land has been approved by the exempted organisation for use by its members for the purposes of recreation."

It does not say that the land is approved for use by its members alone. The rest of Para 5 is also silent as regards whether membership of the exempted organisation is a qualification to use the site and, therefore, does not prohibit use by non-members.

 

[Jim]

I don't think there is any ambiguity in the 4 words for use by it's members

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[Jim]

The MCC flout the legislation and allow the public to use sites they have exempted?

Unfair Jim, the MCC have always allowed non members to use their sites, When Natural England took over the licencing they had no choice but to allow it to continue. They are NOT flouting the law.

That they have always done it does not make it right. And it is certainly against the spirit of the legislation. And I am not the only person who thinks this way, someone at Natural England thinks so to. Watch this space

 

[Reallyretired]

quote Have you considered being a C.C. certificated location ??:Cool: I use those a lot, as well as Brit-stops !

May well consider that option when the time comes :thumb:

Be a motorcaravanners club CL. They let you take non-members so anyone can stay with you.:thumb:

Edit. I should read the rest of the thread

 

[Jim]

Be a motorcaravanners club CL. They let you take non-members so anyone can stay with you.:thumb:

That is advice often given, and it makes sense. And the reason that smaller clubs can miss out on CLs

A few weeks ago it was insisted that a CL we give an exemption to, have a notice on its website declaring the site is for MotorhomeFun Members only. Double standards or what!

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[Wildman]

That is advice often given, and it makes sense. And the reason that smaller clubs can miss out on CLs

A few weeks ago it was insisted that a CL we give an exemption to, have a notice on its website declaring the site is for MotorhomeFun Members only. Double standards or what!

ah now I see, sour grapes, the MCC position is the same as grandfathered licences. No double standards involved, its all in the small print. However as long as people arriving join MHF you/they are in the clear. No where in the rules does it say only paid up members count. Some organisations do not have a membership fee. People can be members without being subscribers. Whilst it may affect insurance for rallies it would NOT affect CL users as you do not insure them.

 

[1_man_and_his_dob(lo)]

Any increased charge is unwelcome to say the least, but it's their new system for pricing that hacks me off... And they make it so damn difficult to find out what it is going to cost.

Last Friday we stayed at one of their prime sites in the south-west. The weather was lovely, but there was hardly a soul there. I do wonder if they've shot themselves in the foot?

I was under the impression that the new pricing system was meant to be like holiday/ferry bookings, with schemes like reduced pricing to encourage people when there are still plenty spaces left at the last minute, e.g. due to crap weather. Add in special offers at certain sites throughout the year and it was going to be save, save, save.

So far I've stayed at several club sites this year and I'm seeing no difference, or slightly higher prices. Hardstanding has gone up...and several of the sites won't open their grass pitches until Easter so you've got no choice but to pay extra. I get the feeling that the special offers aren't going to appear until the high season :Sad:

Never mind, if we get this predicted heat wave it'll be grass pitches all the way until the low season in October :thumb:

 

[GJH]

I don't think there is any ambiguity in the 4 words for use by it's members

No ambiguity at all but the context is that the certificate does not restrict use to members. The general principle of English law which applies is that something is allowed unless it is specifically restricted.

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[GJH]

That is advice often given, and it makes sense. And the reason that smaller clubs can miss out on CLs

A few weeks ago [HI]it was insisted[/HI] that a CL we give an exemption to, have a notice on its website declaring the site is for MotorhomeFun Members only. Double standards or what!

Who (or what organisation) insisted? What reason was given? Was it just rules or was there a sound legal basis? If the latter had the basis been tested in court or was it just somebody's interpretation?

 

[Jim]

ah now I see, sour grapes, the MCC position is the same as grandfathered licences. No double standards involved, its all in the small print. However as long as people arriving join MHF you/they are in the clear. No where in the rules does it say only paid up members count. Some organisations do not have a membership fee. People can be members without being subscribers. Whilst it may affect insurance for rallies it would NOT affect CL users as you do not insure them.

No sour grapes at all. I just don't like rules applied discriminantly. The MCC should have no more rights than MotorhomeFun. Either we should all be allowed public on our sites or none of us should. The legislation we adhere to is the same. There is no paragraph or small print the gives the MCC any privileges over the rest of us.

 

[Wildman]

I do beg your pardon Jim I was unaware that you worked for Natural England.
There is no exclusion in the original act relating to non members of an exempted organisation as Graham has pointed out. The idea was to make sure that licences would be made available to organisations who would ensure that the suitability of the site was adhered to and remove the bulk of the paperwork/donkeywork from Natural England and its predecessors.

For use by its members does not exclude others. As you well know my licence is issued by the MCC and 90% of the passing trade are not members, As you pointed out earlier given a restriction to issuing organisation members only any site other than the big two would probably close.

By stirring the waters you could well be the result of my site closing down. At my age It would not be too much of a problem but the principle would. I would be extremely annoyed and no one could blame me.

As said earlier sour grapes comes to mind and its not a nice trait.:Angry:
nuff said before I get myself into trouble.

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[mikebeaches]

No sour grapes at all. I just don't like rules applied discriminantly. The MCC should have no more rights than MotorhomeFun. Either we should all be allowed public on our sites or none of us should. The legislation we adhere to is the same. There is no paragraph or small print the gives the MCC any privileges over the rest of us.

I am a member of British Naturism, and it also has an exemption certificate. My understanding is that Natural England requires that only BN members can use their certificated sites.

However, BN which is the national organisation for naturists in the UK, is itself a member of the worldwide International Naturist Federation (INF). BN had to negotiate with Natural England for approval to allow visiting naturists from overseas - that were members of their own national organisation - which in turn was a member of the International Naturist Federation - to be allowed to use exempted sites in the UK. I gather the case was made and approved.

Mike

 

[Jim]

Who (or what organisation) insisted? What reason was given? Was it just rules or was there a sound legal basis? If the latter had the basis been tested in court or was it just somebody's interpretation?

Hi Graham, Natural England (Defra as they were) They oversee the exemptions and insisted that a site we exempted earlier this year placed the clause on it's website. They quoted those four words from the legislation that I quoted above.

Two sites we approached this year have ultimately chosen the MCC as they can make more money by being open to members of the public. the MCC's big selling point to land owners is precisely that, in the last paragraph of their CL info sheet they make a big thing about being the only club allowed to do this. Why is the legislation applied differently to two organisations that hold exactly the same exemptions, I have no idea, It gives the MCC an unfair advantage and that is not right.

 

[Jim]

I

As said earlier sour grapes comes to mind and its not a nice trait.:Angry:
nuff said before I get myself into trouble.

In my opinion it is wrong that the MCC enjoy a favour other clubs do not. How does disagreeing with that obvious imbalance become sour grapes

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