Are dealers profiteering?

Lucky

Lucky

Free Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2019
Posts
532
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Location
Limousin France & Yorkshire UK
Funster No
66,709
MH
Sunlight Cliff 600XV
Exp
Since 2016
I understand dealers need to make a profit, especially in these difficult times, but I was surprised to see an advert for a new, in stock mh for sale at 10% ABOVE brochure price. (That's after factoring in the automatic gearbox and engine upgrade).

I was even more surprised to see it had been reserved by a punter!

I know about caveat emptor (buyer beware) but it seems naughty to me. What say you?

By the way I shan't name the dealer because I'm yet to collect my new van from them and don't want to risk creating a problem for myself.
 
Barclaybasher said:
10% profiteering?................... try £30 a bag for plaster a few weeks ago !............... "Supply and demand"
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And that's if you can find it!

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What the dealers do is order a stock of vans from the converter for the new season, ensuring they are loaded up with factory-fitted optional extras.

The only way to get a motorhome at the RRP is to place an order with the the manufacturer. Problem there is, they take about 9 months to come through and by then the price has gone up... Doh! :rolleyes:

As you say, they are in business to make money, and that is one way of increasing their revenue.

To be fair, I think it happens throughout the motor industry. The one difference being, it perhaps doesn't necessarily take 9 months to get a factory-order car. So perhaps more feasible to pay basic RRP for an options-free vehicle if you're prepared to wait say three months for delivery? I'm not an expert on factory-ordered cars, however, so maybe I'm wrong?
 
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Lucky said:
I understand dealers need to make a profit, especially in these difficult times, but I was surprised to see an advert for a new, in stock mh for sale at 10% ABOVE brochure price. (That's after factoring in the automatic gearbox and engine upgrade).

I was even more surprised to see it had been reserved by a punter!

I know about caveat emptor (buyer beware) but it seems naughty to me. What say you?

By the way I shan't name the dealer because I'm yet to collect my new van from them and don't want to risk creating a problem for myself.
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Offer price is not sell price and if the dealer discounts by 10% then everyone is happy

I also assume you managed to negotiate a discount when ordering.
 
mikebeaches said:
What the dealers do is order a stock of vans from the converter for the new season, ensuring they are loaded up with factory-fitted optional extras.

The only way to get a motorhome at the RRP is to place an order with the the manufacturer. Problem there is, they take about 9 months to come through and by then the price has gone up... Doh! :rolleyes:

As you say, they are in business to make money, and that is one way of increasing their revenue.
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You pay the price that is advertised at the time less any discount, the dealer will pay the manufacturer the same. if the vehicle has gone up 9 months later that is not for you to pay as your agreement was at a price set 9 months earlier. Otherwise it's aggressive and misleading advertising etc and consumer law has something to say about that.
 
Coolcats said:
You pay the price that is advertised at the time less any discount, the dealer will pay the manufacturer the same. if the vehicle has gone up 9 months later that is not for you to pay as your agreement was at a price set 9 months earlier. Otherwise it's aggressive and misleading advertising etc and consumer law has something to say about that.
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If only that were the case! I speak from personal experience. :rolleyes:

The way the dealer gets around that obstacle:

"Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee what the price will be on delivery that far ahead, because the manufacturer won't guarantee the price to us. There may be a price increase and also exchange rates have to be factored in."

Another explanation (excuse):

"The factory won't be building any more 2020 models now, orders can only be placed for 2021 model year vans and we can't confirm the specification or price at the moment."

The way the dealer operates, as said in my previous post, he/she buys in seasonal stock, loaded up with optional extras, at an agreed purchase price from the manufacturer. And then sets the retail price of each van on that, plus dealer margin.

Sorry to sound cynical, but I challenge you to try to buy - at the moment - a basic new 2020 model year motorhome, WITHOUT any extras, at the RRP - especially if it is an imported model.

The one opportunity you are in with a chance, is around October through to about January. Normally, new models and prices are announced early autumn, ready for the shows. And that's the time to place a factory-specific order, to secure a 2021 model at RRP.

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mikebeaches said:
If only that were the case! I speak from personal experience. :rolleyes:

The way the dealer gets around that obstacle:

"Unfortunately, we cannot guarantee what the price will be on delivery that far ahead, because the manufacturer won't guarantee the price to us. There may be a price increase and also exchange rates have to be factored in."

Another explanation (excuse):

"The factory won't be building any more 2020 models now, orders can only be placed for 2021 model year vans and we can't confirm the specification or price at the moment."

The way the dealer operates, as said in my previous post, he/she buys in seasonal stock, loaded up with optional extras, at an agreed purchase price from the manufacturer. And then sets the retail price of each van on that, plus dealer margin.

Sorry to sound cynical, but I challenge you to try to buy - at the moment - a basic new 2020 model year motorhome, WITHOUT any extras, at the RRP - especially if it is an imported model.

The one opportunity you are in with a chance, is around October through to about January. Normally, new models and prices are announced early autumn, ready for the shows. And that's the time to place a factory-specific order, to secure a 2021 model at RRP.
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Well that's different in that you are being told upfront that you cannot buy a current vehicle from a 2020 price list. its not that your buying a 2020 model and then being told you have to pay more, your having to pay 2021 prices on a 2021 model
 
jumartoo Judith
Lanestosa mountain village with lovely walled aire. Aires book no 360 Nice walks
Llanes campsite La Paz overlooks the sea ACSI
Isla Cies beautiful island not inhabited need to take a boat from Cangas. We stayed in Villanova
Sanxenxo
Finisterra Walk up to a stage on the Camino
Muxia
Wasn't impressed with A Corunia
Foz nice with free parking on grass area near the town.
Really love Comilles. You can stay on the car park on the sea front. Gaudi's sunflower house is there. Well worth the visit. Take the guided tour if you can.
There is a small site only about 6km inland from there Las Hazas. Very nice walks. The site is small but has everything. Close to local shops and bakery. The bakery has terrible bread.
We spent a lot of time in Cabarceno because we like the nature park. The aire is free and ok ish.
Bilbao for the Guggenheim
San Sebastion for the pinchos (spelling)
Zumaia for the fleche. Extraordinary pink rock formations on the beach
 
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Hils and Glenns said:
jumartoo Judith
Lanestosa mountain village with lovely walled aire. Aires book no 360 Nice walks
Llanes campsite La Paz overlooks the sea ACSI
Isla Cies beautiful island not inhabited need to take a boat from Cangas. We stayed in Villanova
Sanxenxo
Finisterra Walk up to a stage on the Camino
Muxia
Wasn't impressed with A Corunia
Foz nice with free parking on grass area near the town.
Really love Comilles. You can stay on the car park on the sea front. Gaudi's sunflower house is there. Well worth the visit. Take the guided tour if you can.
There is a small site only about 6km inland from there Las Hazas. Very nice walks. The site is small but has everything. Close to local shops and bakery. The bakery has terrible bread.
We spent a lot of time in Cabarceno because we like the nature park. The aire is free and ok ish.
Bilbao for the Guggenheim
San Sebastion for the pinchos (spelling)
Zumaia for the fleche. Extraordinary pink rock formations on the beach
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Wrong thread 🤔?
 
Before Covid Sainsbury’s basic honey £1 now £1.40 now that’s profiteering 40%. Their mum and dad were not married 😂
 
I'm clearly on a different wavelength to some of you.

When a manufacture publishes a price list for 2020 models (so you can calculate the recommended retail price including optional extras) and a dealer retails it with a 10% uplift, well I think that's wrong.

Maybe not illegal and maybe not immoral either - I admit I like to negotiate discounts when I can - but selling above RRP makes me feel uneasy.

i guess maybe it's just me.
 
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Lucky said:
I'm clearly on a different wavelength to some of you.

When a manufacture publishes a price list for 2020 models (so you can calculate the recommended retail price including optional extras) and a dealer retails it with a 10% uplift, well I think that's wrong.

Maybe not illegal and maybe not immoral either - I admit I like to negotiate discounts when I can - but selling above RRP makes me feel uneasy.

i guess maybe it's just me.
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Agreed but if a purchaser willingly gives more than RRP that’s down to the buyer
 
Lucky said:
I'm clearly on a different wavelength to some of you.

When a manufacture publishes a price list for 2020 models (so you can calculate the recommended retail price including optional extras) and a dealer retails it with a 10% uplift, well I think that's wrong.

Maybe not illegal and maybe not immoral either - I admit I like to negotiate discounts when I can - but selling above RRP makes me feel uneasy.

i guess maybe it's just me.
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Did the advertised price include first registration fee and 12 months tax, two additional costs which wouldn't be shown on the manufacturers price list?
 
I suppose you could argue that if it's ok for the punter to ask for a discount on list price if the markets flat then it's equally ok for the dealer to charge a premium if the markets buyant.

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mikebeaches said:
What the dealers do is order a stock of vans from the converter for the new season, ensuring they are loaded up with factory-fitted optional extras.

The only way to get a motorhome at the RRP is to place an order with the the manufacturer. Problem there is, they take about 9 months to come through and by then the price has gone up... Doh! :rolleyes:

As you say, they are in business to make money, and that is one way of increasing their revenue.

To be fair, I think it happens throughout the motor industry. The one difference being, it perhaps doesn't necessarily take 9 months to get a factory-order car. So perhaps more feasible to pay basic RRP for an options-free vehicle if you're prepared to wait say three months for delivery? I'm not an expert on factory-ordered cars, however, so maybe I'm wrong?
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In 2017 Rapido set its UK retail price list in September, based on a forecast average Sterling : Euro exchange rate at 1 : 1.18. That was shortly before the October NEC show, when we placed our order for a new Rapido Van.

Sterling has fallen recently against the Euro to about the 1 : 1.10 level so I would not be surprised if MH price increases are in the pipeline.

I don'r know enough about the ex-works price the MH dealer pays, and how that relates to the variable Sterling exchange rate. In the leisure goods industry in which I used to work the dealer price ex-works was based on a fixed % discount on the official UK retail price list. That provided a high degree of certainty for both the dealer and end customer, because the manufacturer's UK price list was fixed for 12 months and unlikely to change unless there was a sudden big shift in the value of Sterling. That forex risk contingency was of course covered in the T&Cs of the Dealer Appointment, but seldom invoked by the manufacturer to raise prices or demand payment of invoices in another currency such as the USD or Euro.
 
The Wino said:
I suppose you could argue that if it's ok for the punter to ask for a discount on list price if the markets flat then it's equally ok for the dealer to charge a premium if the markets buyant.
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When I used to draft Dealership Appointments I always put in a clause that allowed the Manufacturer to start a dispute procedure, leading if necessary to terminating the Appointment, if the Dealer imposed excessively high prices on the end customer, above the official UK price list. Excessive prices were banned to preserve the reputation of the Brand. Along with other handy clauses, such as banning the practice of refusing to carry out warranty repairs if the end customer hadn't bought the goods from that particular dealer.

You do wonder sometimes what sort of Dealership Appointments are prevalent in the UK MH industry, or if the Manufacturers lack the b&lls to stop shoddy practices by their Dealers.
 
All prices are bound to rise with reduced customer numbers and increased costs
 
Lucky said:
I'm clearly on a different wavelength to some of you.

When a manufacture publishes a price list for 2020 models (so you can calculate the recommended retail price including optional extras) and a dealer retails it with a 10% uplift, well I think that's wrong.

Maybe not illegal and maybe not immoral either - I admit I like to negotiate discounts when I can - but selling above RRP makes me feel uneasy.

i guess maybe it's just me.
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Have you analysed the breakdown (justification) for the inflated price?

Here's a random example of a new C class Rapido

Manufacturer's Recommended Retail Price: £56,835

Price of model for sale (with extras) £65,675

Nearly £9 grand more ( + 16% on the MRRP)

www.highbridgecaravans.co.uk

Highbridge Caravan Centre Ltd.

www.highbridgecaravans.co.uk www.highbridgecaravans.co.uk

  • Fabric: Murano £270
  • Mattress Topper £270
  • LED Daytime Running Lights £350
  • Auto A/C £440
  • 16" Alloy Wheels £570
  • Safety Pack £870
  • Emergency Braking System, Centre Line Crossing Alert, Smart Headlights, Road Sign Recognition, Rain/Light Sensor
  • 160bhp Engine Upgrade £1,720
  • Select Pack £1,750
  • Reversing camera with night view, KENWOOD multimedia centre with 6.2" screen, Passenger's airbag, Cruise control with limiter, ESC with ASR (traction control), ROM (roll over mitigation) and hill start assistance, Electric defrosting side mirrors, Height-adjustable cab seats, Thermal sliding, dual-pleat windscreen blind: up/down (sunshade) and down/up (privacy screen), Living area door with 2-point locking, fixed window and inbuilt bin, Living area mosquito door, Living area speakers, Cooker hood with LED lighting, Duo Control automatic gas inverter
  • Automatic Gearbox £2,600

I rest my case.

If that is the model you want, whether or not those are all extras you would choose, that is what the dealer is seeking. There may be scope for a little negotiation on the price, but suspect not a lot in the current climate and in mid-summer.

But it can be argued the dealer is doing nothing wrong. Simply a legitimate way of running his business and making a healthy profit.
 
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We fixed the price of our van in € the dealer knew what he was going to pay as he has to pay in € so no scope for fluctuations, if we had been paying in £ the price moved about £25k just due to exchange rates and I would not expect the dealer to stand that loss.

I believe some dealers might have a fixed exchange rate for a given period but for me the only sure way was to fix in € so then we took the risk but we also controlled that risk in that we chose when to exchange.

Martin

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