Anyone gone all electric? (3 Viewers)

[two]

Yes, but it's not a simple plug-in connection. It's not difficult either. In UK/EU the 'Type 2' plug is quite common, which is an AC supply, not DC. It's a 7-pin plug, with 5 mains connections and two thin 'pilot' wires. The 5 mains wires are Live1, Live2, Live3, Neutral and Earth. By switching suitable resistors and diodes on the pilot wires you can select the power you want, and start/stop the charging. The choice is 3.5kW or 7kW single-phase, or 22kW 3-phase. The 3.5kW single phase is just like a 16A hookup post. My charger takes up to 1750W, so is well below the 3.5kW limit.

The pilot wires implement extra safety functions too, so that it's never possible to get a shock from the connection cable, even when it's wet and you drop one end into a puddle. I fitted a Type 2 socket next to the standard mains inlet, with a generator-type switch to switch between standard and EV input. Also needed is a manual switch to start and stop the charging process, although this could be automated with a timer like on a normal electric vehicle.

The main problem I've had is finding EV point where there is enough space to park a 7m Hymer. I've never had the problem of too many people trying to use the same EV point at the same time.

Very interesting. I'd not stopped to think why there were so many wires in there.
What kind of price are you charged per kWh, once you've managed to make a connection?

 

[autorouter]

What kind of price are you charged per kWh, once you've managed to make a connection?

It varies quite a lot, but about 50p per kWh. Since my batteries are 600Ah equivalent (= about 7kWh) then that's less than a fiver even if it's from flat to full. But it can vary from free (at some Tescos) to over 80p at some EV chargers.

 

[two]

That's better than I had expected but I imagine it may only be at a trickle where it's free so you'd need plenty of time.
You already have that on a campsite that makes no additional charge per kWh.

Even so, a gas bottle contains a lot more cheap energy than you could store in a battery. I think I'll pass on "all-electric" for the time being.

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[Lenny HB]

You already have that on a campsite that makes no additional charge per kWh.

Depends if its metered or not.

 

[nabsim]

That's better than I had expected but I imagine it may only be at a trickle where it's free so you'd need plenty of time.
You already have that on a campsite that makes no additional charge per kWh.

Even so, a gas bottle contains a lot more cheap energy than you could store in a battery. I think I'll pass on "all-electric" for the time being.

It will charge at whatever rate your on board charger will supply. The EV point is only providing 230V power source

 

[autorouter]

That's better than I had expected but I imagine it may only be at a trickle where it's free so you'd need plenty of time.
You already have that on a campsite that makes no additional charge per kWh.

The free ones are usually 7kW, or sometimes 3.5kW. That's a bit minimalist for an average EV that needs 40 to 50kWh. but for my charger 3.5kW is twice as much as my charger can cope with. It charges at 1750W, which puts in 25% per hour.

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[Jays2]

So with the three live (three phase?)
which live did you use? How did you find out?
The change over switch from one source to another why is this needed? As you will only be on one source at a time?
The control of the pilot wire last me I’m afraid.
How does that work? Is it something you made?
We have just completed our camper with an electric set up, a few teething problems on charging, which made us think, stay at a place with electric hook up. ( not usually what we do)
Or use a car charger station .

 

[PeterCarole29]

Correct..a second alternator is installed. Here’s a short video from RP….

NEW 2023 Gas Free Rebellion 2 — RP Motorhomes

www.rpmotorhomes.com

It’s an impressive build is it an impressive price around 140k I’m not in the market for one but am always interested in how much things cost

 

[PeterCarole29]

Do not understand "...ignition to fire it up, in this case the diesel engine." Are you saying the generator has an electric start? If so why do you need to run the van engine.

The op has linked a video which explains it well and simple

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[BillandHelen]

autorouter, is there any difference/advantages in installing a 2nd belt driven alternator as opposed to a b2b? I see on YouTube some American builders like Advanced rv installing 280amp alternators which I assume is what RP Motorhomes is doing. Is it just an output advantage or am I missing something obvious?

 

[autorouter]

So with the three live (three phase?)
which live did you use? How did you find out?

IIRC, when you use the pilot wires to tell the EV point you want single phase, it switches on Live1, you don't get the option of using any of the other phases.

The change over switch from one source to another why is this needed? As you will only be on one source at a time?

It's the same problem as using two sources like a genny and a hookup post. If the genny is working, then if the hookup post inlet is just wired directly to the consumer unit, it will be live. If you look at a hookup inlet, you will see it is a 'plug' not a 'socket', ie it has three male pins. It would be easy to touch these pins, and if they were live you would get a shock.

To avoid this scenario, a 2-pole changeover switch is usually fitted. It can be manual, or could be a 2-pole changeover relay if you wanted to automate it. The switch needs to be a particular type with 'break-before-make' contacts so that the two sources are not connected at the same time, even for a fraction of a second.

This is a well-known problem with generators and hookup, and there are proper switches available that will solve this problem. Just use the same technology when selecting between an EV charger and a hookup post.

The control of the pilot wire last me I’m afraid.
How does that work? Is it something you made?

The pilot wire signals are a bit complicated to some, but fairly straightforward for an electronics hobbyist. There are several safety interlocks and data transfers. There are two pilot signals. The earth wire is the 'negative' for both of the pilot wire signals.

One of the pilot signals is just for the cable. There is a resistor built into every EV charging cable, that tells the EV point what power it can handle.

The second pilot signal is to negotiate between the charger and the charge point to arrive at the correct power level for both. And when that's sorted out, to lock the plugs so they can't be removed, start and stop the charging process, and unlock the plugs when it's finished. I'll have to look up the details so I'll post them tomorrow.

 

[Jays2]

Thank you for explaining I appreciate you sharing your Knowledge.
I do feel this is the way forward for us, hopefully our onboard systems don’t fail, but a back up is critical in my opinion.
Even this morning was thinking about plugging into a charger, as you we are 7meters long.
I suggested to Jan that we could go to a point early in the morning, plug then sit in the van and have breakfast.

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[autorouter]

I'll have to look up the details so I'll post them tomorrow.

The second pilot wire has a 12V signal from the EV Charge Point (EVSE). Initially it is a straightforward DC signal. If a cable is connected, then the signal becomes to a 12V square wave at 1kHz. It has a source impedance of 1000 ohms.

Electronics geeks can work out that if you connect a resistor of 2740 ohms, then a resistor of 1300 ohms or 270 ohms in parallel, this will drop the voltage to 9V, 6V and 3V respectively. The EVSE can see this voltage change, so the EV uses this to signal to the EVSE.

There's an extra safety factor, a diode in series with the resistor means that only the positive half of the square wave is dropped in voltage, the negative half stays unaffected at -12V. The EVSE reads this to make sure that the voltage drop is a proper signal, not just a bad connection somewhere.

But there's more. A square wave can vary in the proportion of time it's positive to negative. Typically it's 50/50, but it could be 70/30 or any other ratio. This 'mark-space ratio' is used by the EVSE to signal the power capability of the supply. The EV uses this to adjust its power demand, so it doesn't exceed the supply availability and trip the supply.

Fortunately this is a bit irrelevant for this application, because the charger power in the MH is less than the lowest possible power supply. The square wave information can be ignored, it will never be exceeded by the MH charger.

So in terms of circuitry, the pilot wire needs a 2740 ohm resistor in series with a diode, to tell the EVSE that there is a valid charger connected. Then it needs to switch a 1300 ohm resistor in parallel with the 2740 ohm resistor to tell the EVSE to start charging. Then turn off that switch to tell the EVSE to stop charging.

In an EV, the switching is automated, but for this application manual switching is fine.

 

[autorouter]

When developing this EV charging method, my first step was to build the EV socket and all the circuitry into a big waterproof box, with a cable and round blue plug coming out to connect to the MH EHU inlet.

Once I had that working, I added an EV socket and circuitry to the side of the MH next to the EHU inlet, and added the switchover between the two. So I could use a standard EV cable to connect up to the EV charge point.

I'm sure someone could make a lead with a neat little box in the middle, and a round blue EHU socket at the end which will do the job. Similar to a 'granny charger' that is readily available to charge an EV from a domestic 13A plug, but the opposite way round. But I've never seen one available.

 

[Jays2]

That was very interesting , I need to digest and draw out the circuit to build.

The issue I have is the fused Busbar is not the correct size for the incoming power, and was warm/hot to the touch, connections were also not tight enough, this lead to a lower current yield.

The power from the b2b charger is rated at 120 A and the solar at 50 A if both at optimum, which will be few and far between.

However the Busbar needs to be fused and be able to carry the potential load.

This has highlighted the need to top up the power if we did lose an input power supply, so as this is just finished project apart from changing the Busbar items, it would be good time to future proof the installation.

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[nabsim]

When developing this EV charging method, my first step was to build the EV socket and all the circuitry into a big waterproof box, with a cable and round blue plug coming out to connect to the MH EHU inlet.

Once I had that working, I added an EV socket and circuitry to the side of the MH next to the EHU inlet, and added the switchover between the two. So I could use a standard EV cable to connect up to the EV charge point.

I'm sure someone could make a lead with a neat little box in the middle, and a round blue EHU socket at the end which will do the job. Similar to a 'granny charger' that is readily available to charge an EV from a domestic 13A plug, but the opposite way round. But I've never seen one available.

You can buy the leads already done. Probably a few different ones but this is one I know of and have seen in operation a few times.

Juicy Brucie EV-Cable — Bruce Lauderdale

www.brucelauderdale.com

 

[BDM]

And Bruce says....

"Can I park in an EV Parking Bay?
​

The short answer is, ‘No!’ Your vehicle is a diesel (or petrol) guzzling machine and is in no way an electrical vehicle.
Parking in a restricted EV bay could not only get you a penalty charge notice but it will also give motorhome and campervan owners a bad name and will just mean potential future restrictions.
“Don’t be a Dick!” is the best approach to take. If you are using an EV charge point and someone with an EV arrives and there are no charge points available, I would urge you to do the right thing and offer to unplug and let them use the charge point for the purpose it was installed."

 

[Jays2]

Think motor home we will be a low users of the facilities.

I do also agree that sharing facilities and being cooperative plus non confrontational is a way to an easy stress free life.

You just hope the people you interact with feel the same.

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[Otter Spotter]

You can get diesel hobs from a couple of manufacturers. From what I've heard they aren't exactly perfect but I have no experience of them otherwise. Webasto make one and there is also Wallas who also make a diesel oven.

Wallas Diesel Hobs And Ovens Archives - Kuranda UK Ltd

Wallas Diesel Hobs and Ovens. Safe - There is no open flame in Wallas stoves. Moreover, they use non-explosive and non-pressurized fuel. Safety is guaranteed.

www.kuranda.co.uk

That’s mine !

 

[Otter Spotter]

What is the objection to gas? Seems to work really well to me.

Tanks or bottles take up space and weight, gas produces moisture which if ventilated will cause dampness in the van.

 

[PeterCarole29]

Hi considering our next van.
I have seen posts elsewhere where people have massive solar and lithium battery set ups with invertors and dont use gas.
Thinking of this with a diesel combi heat/hot water.
Anyone got any experience of this type of set up or have any thoughts?

We have gone almost all electric on current self build
But do have the whale gas and electric water heater and gas hob but find if we want to cook inside I use a portable induction hob as the gas just heats the van up and it’s hot enough at the moment
But we will fit gas lpg refillable to our next van for alternative cooking from a bbq point and water heater
We will not fit gas hobb inside the van it will be fitted induction twin hob
We just like the choice
Fridge is 12v compressor fridge works well

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[autorouter]

"Can I park in an EV Parking Bay?​

​

The short answer is, ‘No!’ Your vehicle is a diesel (or petrol) guzzling machine and is in no way an electrical vehicle.

That's the answer to the question "If there are no parking spaces left, can I park my non-electric car in an EV charging bay?"

If I am using the charging point, and paying for the electricity, my answer is that I am using the EV charging bay as intended. I am clearly plugged into the charging point, using the charger. It's no different to a plug-in hybrid using an EV charging bay.

Obviously if you try to use the chargers at Newport Pagnell on a Friday afternoon, there will be queues and people objecting, and some discretion is needed. But most times I'm brushing the cobwebs off little-used chargers that the owners are glad to get some revenue from.

 

[Jays2]

That was my thought, but I did read around it and followed a thread on another forum about this.
Quite divided opinion on just using the point to charge your leisure battery.
I personally would use it as I am charging and not just( as it could look to a none electric car user) parking at the side stealing it.

 

[nabsim]

That was my thought, but I did read around it and followed a thread on another forum about this.
Quite divided opinion on just using the point to charge your leisure battery.
I personally would use it as I am charging and not just( as it could look to a none electric car user) parking at the side stealing it.

It’s just common sense to me. I am not tied to certain times though so may be easier for me to say than others. If I ever get one of these leads I will use it in places and times when chargers are vacant. In Supermarkets you can often park in a non ev bay next to the ev bay and the lead I posted the link for was used in that way. Again though that would depend where you EHU point is on the van and where the chargers are located.

For me it’s academic u til my genny packs up for winter top ups

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[Widge]

Hi considering our next van.
I have seen posts elsewhere where people have massive solar and lithium battery set ups with invertors and dont use gas.
Thinking of this with a diesel combi heat/hot water.
Anyone got any experience of this type of set up or have any thoughts?

Try searching for user Hoovie , he is only a free member on this group, but i am pretty sure he has a full electric/lithium setup, i think even with induction hob, he might be able to point you in the right direction.

 

[nabsim]

Try searching for user Hoovie , he is only a free member on this group, but i am pretty sure he has a full electric/lithium setup, i think even with induction hob, he might be able to point you in the right direction.

He runs a hybrid battery bank with lead carbon and lifepo4

 

[wfdTamar]

Kinda like me - I have dual leisure systems. One lead carbon gel based (for the conventional uses). The other LifePo4 (mainly for the 240 volt fridge).

In my other Hymer there's no heater and a huge American LPG hot water heater. Obvious choice is a cheap diesel heater. For overnight use I worry it might be too noisy and not like running on low, so I was looking at LPG, but they're pushing A$2000 plus installation here. I toyed with hydronic run off the 20 litre HWS, but an expert reckons it won't have enough heat to do it.

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[Reevsie]

The biggest issue is probably water heating for showers and dishes. A sink of hot water will cost you about 10Ah in battery.

 

[Two Owl Ones]

Normally 2 trips to Europe of 6 weeks a year sept/oct and feb/march and the odd week in the uk.
We cook in the van with gas and gas bbq a lot and move on every couple of days.
Normally Aires with the odd campsite.

We have upgraded to 350 w solar and 200 ah lithium and never seem to make a demt in it.
Thats what is thinking of ditching the gas.

same here we have 350w solar 280ah fogstar drift lithium and 1000w Renogy inverter, we use a kettle (700w) toaster (700w) and a heater(500w) we run tv bluray player mifi internet and a compressor fridge/freezer and it hardly uses anything, we do keep two 6kg bottles of gas as a just in case for the shower heating/hot water and the kettle (priority)

 

[VXman]

It is. Just need the engine running to start the inboard generator. What are you all not getting The whole system uses two alternators.

Just watched the video. It is described as 'Gas Free' - now that is a better explanation. I still don't like the idea of eclectic being created by burning diesel. Personally if it was fully battery/solar powered it would be a better solution but probably not doable. If I was parked up near one and the owner started his engine to be able to cook or use the washing machine I'd find that annoying. Interesting tech and design though. As always Van conversions a bit to cramped for me.

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