Advice needed - solar panel disaster ... (3 Viewers)

[Allanm]

A friend of mine is doing a self build. Last year he had two Solar panels fitted to his roof. The panels were screwed to the brackets and the brackets screwed onto the roof
First trip out, both panels came loose. One flew off somewhere( never recovered) and the other was almost off. Luckily he heard a noise from the roof and stopped before the 2nd panel left
Seems to me it’s the level of workmanship not the method of fixing that’s to blame.
We are on our 4th van with solar panels and sat dishes glued to the roof. Everything is still attached.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Further..
If the panel had come off and caused damage or injury it is YOU who would end up with sticky end of the poo stick
Eyes of the law you are responsible for your vehicle..
Could have been extremely nasty / costly.. Worth pointing that out to the dealer too

On the first point you made - there could be a 3rd party claim, but it should result in an indemnity from the dealer or its insurers. The circumstances point to negligence by the dealer, not negligence by Grianan who appears to be the innocent party in all this.

 

[Sandancers]

Our van roof has the thin floating aluminium outer skin over 6mm ply and then the styrofoam insulation.
Knowing the potential havoc that could be caused by a solar panel coming off the roof and our roof construction being the thin floating aluminium outer skin type, I used the aerodynamic type mounts across the whole of the forward facing edge of the panels, roughened the paint surface and glued the mounts using Sikaflex 292i as well as screwing the mounts to the roof.
For me, I did not trust anyone but myself to fit our solar panels and as such I have no worries about them staying where they are.
My reason for screwing down as well was as stated by Richard and Ann

Grianan what was the dimensions of your panel and how many and what type of mounts were used ?

View attachment 351903

Are those plastic (I presume) deflector type strips which are mounted in front of all your sticky-up bits doing anything more than "hopefully" making it more aerodynamic ?

How are they fixed to the roof ? Just wondering if they are possibly more potential flying objects.

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[Two on Tour]

Are those plastic (I presume) deflector type strips which are mounted in front of all your sticky-up bits doing anything more than "hopefully" making it more aerodynamic ?

How are they fixed to the roof ? Just wondering if they are possibly more potential flying objects.

The larger 150 watt panel going across the the van was the first panel I fitted to the van and used 4 plastic corner mounts and 2 side mounts bonded and screwed. The panel was then bolted to the mounts.
After a few days I infilled the gaps across the forward facing edge of the panel with additional mounts the same shape which are just bonded to the roof and the were a tight fit to push under the panel.
I did this for two reasons, firstly, I had concerns about what the air pressure building up under the panel at speed could do as I come from a hang glider/microlight background and served my apprenticeship on aircraft airframes and engines and secondly they were fitted to reduce wind noise produced by the panel and help smooth the airflow over the panel reducing parasitic and interference drag.
When I fitted the additional lengthways 100 watt panel I again used 6 point mounting with a full width shaped mount across the front for the same reasons.

 

[Sandancers]

The larger 150 watt panel going across the the van was the first panel I fitted to the van and used 4 plastic corner mounts and 2 side mounts bonded and screwed. The panel was then bolted to the mounts.
After a few days I infilled the gaps across the forward facing edge of the panel with additional mounts the same shape which are just bonded to the roof and the were a tight fit to push under the panel.
I did this for two reasons, firstly, I had concerns about what the air pressure building up under the panel at speed could do as I come from a hang glider/microlight background and served my apprenticeship on aircraft airframes and engines and secondly they were fitted to reduce wind noise produced by the panel and help smooth the airflow over the panel reducing parasitic and interference drag.
When I fitted the additional lengthways 100 watt panel I again used 6 point mounting with a full width shaped mount across the front for the same reasons.

Yes, I understand the bits holding the solar panel and totally agree with preventing airflow under the panel. What I was asking about is the stand alone deflectors which are in front of your roof vents etc.

 

[Lenny HB]

But you would have screwed the panel to the brackets I imagine.

Martin

Posted that before I read about the brackets failing, I used alloy brackets with nuts & bolts.

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[Jaws]

Only glued on sure I would not drive that around or like to be behind it crazy

It is worth remembering there are no welds screws or bolts holding the wings on all modern planes no matter what the size

 

[pelican]

It is worth remembering there are no welds screws or bolts holding the wings on all modern planes no matter what the size

Thought they were riveted at very close intervals.
bring back the Lancaster

 

[pelican]

I said it part in jest and to make a point. The roof rack is fitted by 8cm diameter cores of the roof being cut out and replaced with a plug which is sikaflexed in, the rack is then screwed to the plug. But if the chemical bond between the plug and the roof failed the two would part company.

You'll find most yachts, motorhomes and aircraft are held together with similar chemical fixings.

oh a bit different than relying on the paints adhesion .

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[Jaws]

Thought they were riveted at very close intervals.
bring back the Lancaster

No.. mechanical fixings do not meet the required standard on control surfaces

 

[Csmith]

My simple response would be, if supplied and fitted then should be suitable - citizens advice other wise.

 

[Lenny HB]

What about the situation when the paint peeled of the van roof. How can you be sure the paint adhesion is good enough on your van. If it there was an inguiry into a serious incident and it was found that the panel was only glued on then who would be held responsible. It just isn't worth the risk.

Ok if you are that worried about the only way to fix them properly with screws would be to put bolts right through the roof and bolted spreader plates under the roof inside. I've yet to see a solar panel fitted like that & I don't think the customer would be very happy.

No point in using self-tappers, a self-tapper into 0.5mm of aluminum is pretty useless & then if you are idiotic enough to use stainless steel self-tapers we all know that there is an electrolytic reaction between stainless steel & aluminum and the aluminum corrodes away.

By far the safest method of fixing unless you want unsightly plates & bolts inside your van is with the correct adhesive.
With pre-coated panels that vans are made from it's very unlikely the paint will peel off. My last 2 vans have had 2mm anti-hail GRP sheets bonded to the roof so I think my panels are very secure. Also my sat dish is only stuck on.

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[Two on Tour]

Yes, I understand the bits holding the solar panel and totally agree with preventing airflow under the panel. What I was asking about is the stand alone deflectors which are in front of your roof vents etc.

Gotcha now, The wind deflectors in front of various bits of gubbins on our roof have a large footprint for their size and are bonded to the roof with Sikaflex 292i, my main concern would be how the hell do we get them off rather than will they be blown off.

https://www.uksealants.co.uk/pub/media/solwin/productattachment/attachment/file/s/i/sikaflex_292icure_tds.pdf

 

[Silver-Fox]

smooth the airflow over the panel reducing parasitic and interference drag.

I love the explanation especially the use of the word “parasitic” ?

Do you have a link to the air flow directors by any chance ??

 

[Two on Tour]

I love the explanation especially the use of the word “parasitic” ?

Do you have a link to the air flow directors by any chance ??

You can't beat a bit of technical talk to baffle people and make them think you know what you are talking about. ........................ did it work ?

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[Lenny HB]

bonded to the roof with Sikaflex 292i, my main concern would be how the hell do we get them off rather than will they be blown off.

Hours of work with a cheese wire, been there done that, not easy. Certainly gives you assurance of how good Sikaflex is.

 

[Silver-Fox]

You can't beat a bit of technical talk to baffle people and make them think you know what you are talking about. ........................ did it work ?

Now I think you know me better than that ?

Great post though ?

 

[funflair]

Well being a bit of a worrier I made and bonded on alloy brackets and then started to think "what if" so I moulded a fibreglass piece that would go over the bracket and attached to the roof but with an air gap to the brackets themselves on the theory that if the first alloy brackets came loose the second fibreglass bracket would act as a "catcher".

Well that was the theory that has never been tested

Martin

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[CazPaul]

Well being a bit of a worrier I made and bonded on alloy brackets and then started to think "what if" so I moulded a fibreglass piece that would go over the bracket and attached to the roof but with an air gap to the brackets themselves on the theory that if the first alloy brackets came loose the second fibreglass bracket would act as a "catcher".

Well that was the theory that has never been tested

View attachment 351975

Martin

Now that is a cracking idea

 

[Two on Tour]

Now that is a cracking idea

Poor choice of words maybe ?

 

[34127]

With pre-coated panels that vans are made from it's very unlikely the paint will peel off. My last 2 vans have had 2mm anti-hail GRP sheets bonded to the roof so I think my panels are very secure. Also my sat dish is only stuck on.

I agree that it is unlikely, so are most accidents, but it has been reported on other forums that the paint has peeled off the roof of a van where the solar panels were attached.

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[Wagoneer]

Re sticking the brackets to the roof - I'd mask off the bracket footprint and scarify the surface until reaching a stable base i.e. no paint. Then sikaflex etch primer (belt & braces).

My roof has a fiberglass hail protection layer (but with shallow scour indentations on the surface).

Then a short securing strap from the SP to the Carthago integrated side roof bar (double belt & braces). OK, a detached SP would possibly make a mess of the roof and side of the van, but at least no other road user would be endangered

PS. I like the idea of an aero-bar bracket on the leading edge. But how do you remove the SP at a later date, if you so wished ? Might be difficult with a 20mm gap and a screwdriver.

 

[Just smiffy]

My only worry is that, can the mrs hold down the panels and hang on to the roof at the same time...?

I’ll get back to you after we’ve done some trials.....?

 

[PeteH]

I was hoping not to be the first to mention as above. ALL motorway junctions have cameras that will read your number plate. In effect you have left the scene of a road traffic accident without reporting it. You may well be in deep trouble, even if it didn't hit another vehicle. The police may write to you or knock on your door in the next few weeks.
Sorry

Highly unlikely! the cynic in me says. Otherwise the volume of debris on our motorway system would be far less than it is. (it would have been collected by Plod/Vosa) to be used as "evidence"). I can just see it. "Can we have a DNA sample sir, so we can confirm this cigarette butt is yours?". So IMV. unless serious damage had been caused as a result of the failure. It would remain just another piece of Crap waiting to be picked up when the Authorities got a round to it. As for Knocking on doors, The police are forever screaming they are overstretched and under manned?. So again I seriously doubt they would bother their arses.

As for the O/P. This looks on the face of it to be a case of dealer responsibility. As for fixing with "Glue". I have had 6 Solars all bonded with proprietory adhesives to the roof of motorhomes (and R-V`s) none have ever worked loose. But the Trick as always is in the Preparation. On the roof of my last one was the plate for a Very large Satelite system it had been there for years and I could not remove it!. It was still there when I traded.

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[Slimalex]

Is there any chance you could give a clue as to the dealer?

 

[TUCANO]

Campbells ?

 

[PeteH]

Campbells ?

I thought They made Soup?

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[Silver-Fox]

My only worry is that, can the mrs hold down the panels and hang on to the roof at the same time...?

I’ll get back to you after we’ve done some trials.....?

Tell her the panels are full of wine.

Im sure she’ll manage it ?

 

[Wagoneer]

I like the idea of an aero-bar bracket on the leading edge. But how do you remove the SP at a later date, if you so wished ? Might be difficult with a 20mm gap and a screwdriver.

Think I've found the answer to my query in the following link:

<Broken link removed>

 

[Two on Tour]

Think I've found the answer to my query in the following link:

<Broken link removed>

Removing a solar panel from their mounts is fine, but as there is no universal sizing of solar panels, it very unlikely you will find another that will slip straight in as a replacement which rather nullifies the advantage the seller of the Aero Brackets claims.

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