3RD NUMBER PLATE?????? (4 Viewers)

[Figaro]

A lot of the ANPR cameras are on motorway bridges looking down on vehicles so will pick up number plates on the roof as stated by ex policeman in former thread and surely a few quid is worth spending as it could return your pride and joy if stolen.

Can`t argue with that

 

[sdc77]

I agree with @Borderland just can`t see it working.
AFAIK they only look for vehicles not taxed and insured, presuming the thief gets a plate made up for a taxed and insured vehicle, why would the camera look for another plate ? I think there may be built in software to filter out all other info it picks up from different locations on the vehicle.
but we need someone with a knowledge of APNR cameras to be sure and I don`t suppose anyone will be willing to spill the beans on their full capabilities

They do collect all sorts if text data.. but they are designed to look for number plates in a specific format. The info it reads is compared to various police databases. These databases can have all sorts of reasons for existing. All index plates seen by the system are saved.

A lot of the ANPR cameras are on motorway bridges looking down on vehicles so will pick up number plates on the roof as stated by ex policeman in former thread and surely a few quid is worth spending as it could return your pride and joy if stolen.

The camera systems are designed to look for number plates of a specific format and are focused to catch the front and or rear of a vehicle.. not the roof. Although it may pick something up its not designed to be looking on roofs..

 

[DanielFord]

I agree with @Borderland just can`t see it working.
AFAIK they only look for vehicles not taxed and insured, presuming the thief gets a plate made up for a taxed and insured vehicle, why would the camera look for another plate ? I think there may be built in software to filter out all other info it picks up from different locations on the vehicle.
but we need someone with a knowledge of APNR cameras to be sure and I don`t suppose anyone will be willing to spill the beans on their full capabilities

Totally incorrect, the ANPR cameras read all information they hit on, and match it against a database. Imagine this scenario, my van gets nicked, and the miscreants put false plates on the van that are valid, but they don't know about the one on the roof. So they pass through an ANPR checkpoint (of which there are thousands) the standard plates read OK, but the ANPR hit on the one on the roof, this causes a match in the database, because I have reported my van stolen, the rozzas are dispatched and the miscreant is apprehended! Job done

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[DanielFord]

They do collect all sorts if text data.. but they are designed to look for number plates in a specific format. The info it reads is compared to various police databases. These databases can have all sorts of reasons for existing. All index plates seen by the system are saved.


The camera systems are designed to look for number plates of a specific format and are focused to catch the front and or rear of a vehicle.. not the roof. Although it may pick something up its not designed to be looking on roofs..

No believe me, they scan all readable text!

 

[Gromett]

It is spooky this debate comes up just after I started reading up on Machine Learning/ Artificial intelligence / Neural Networks. I am currently reading this book
"Make Your Own Neural Network" It is only a couple of £ (Kindle edition) so I thought it was worth a chance even if the maths went over my ability to understand it.

However, the way these cameras work I am guessing is a similar way to the way the examples in this book do character recognition.

Anyway... It is not a program in the traditional sense of the word. It is 'trained' to spot license plates by being fed 1,000's of examples. This combined with an ability to recognise characters in a multi layer network will give it the ability to read plates at any angle, any height and any location on a vehicle with a high degree of accuracy.

My semi-educated guess on this is that it will be able to read the plates that are flat on a roof in optimal conditions. But flying past at 70mph in the rain with a dirty roof might make it a hard task. But that is more to do with the optics than the computers ability to read the plate.

However none of this is relevant I don't think. I believe most ANPR cameras are either on police cars or in the back of police vans which won't actually be able to see the top of your roof. There are some gantry mounted ones, but to rely on the thieves passing one of these is expecting a bit much.

So, for roof mounted ones, I would personally go HUGE so they can be spotted from tall buildings, security cameras and helicopters etc. I don't think orientation matters that much in this case?

Just my thoughts.

 

[34127]

Totally incorrect, the ANPR cameras read all information they hit on, and match it against a database. Imagine this scenario, my van gets nicked, and the miscreants put false plates on the van that are valid, but they don't know about the one on the roof. So they pass through an ANPR checkpoint (of which there are thousands) the standard plates read OK, but the ANPR hit on the one on the roof, this causes a match in the database, because I have reported my van stolen, the rozzas are dispatched and the miscreant is apprehended! Job done

So why don't insurance companies advise on fitting number plates to the roof.

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[sdc77]

No believe me, they scan all readable text!

Of course it will but it will only try and identify groups of text it 'thinks' are number plates.
And each camera is focused on an area too.
The question was .. will they identify or read an index on a roof . The answer is . Normaly no. But for a fiver why not.

 

[Speve]

Automatic Number Plate Recognition
ANPR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) / LPR (License Plate Recognition) is a versatile technology that is currently used in many different traffic applications. This includes for example access control systems, high-speed applications such as free flow tolling and enforcement and dragnet investigation. Industrial cameras are most typically used because of their real-time compatibility. When outfitted with the proper sensor, they offer the necessary sensitivity to capture high quality images during short exposure times.

Certain regional peculiarities are crucial here, such as the size of the number plates; in Europe a horizontal resolution of 800 x 1000 pixels per lane is recommended. This grows to 1600 x 2000 pixels per lane for the USA, Middle East and China. In addition, depending on the number plate properties a monochrome camera variant with IR light support is preferred in Europe, while a color variant with white light support is helpful in the Middle East and China

 

[RidersofRohan]

So when you use the Dartford crossing will it ping you twice for having two front number plates?
I think getting the technology to work is one thing but then you are relying on the police force.
If your van is reported stolen and the roof top number plate is recognised then hopefully a traffic car is alerted to look for YY13YYY but all they ever see is a motorhome with unknown to them false plates. Not sure how well this would work, think this is an ex copper with a "lets pretend memory".

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[DigglyDog]

Surely if you're putting a plate where it's not certain to be seen by ANPR, then the crims won't think abut changing it to avoid detection. In any case, if they want to have it away, they will regardless of how many ANPR and CCTV cameras there are.
Even if the gantry cameras don't pick it up, and investment of a fiver seems small in relationship to the overall value at risk.

 

[Geo]

Totally incorrect, the ANPR cameras read all information they hit on, and match it against a database. Imagine this scenario, my van gets nicked, and the miscreants put false plates on the van that are valid, but they don't know about the one on the roof. So they pass through an ANPR checkpoint (of which there are thousands) the standard plates read OK, but the ANPR hit on the one on the roof, this causes a match in the database, because I have reported my van stolen, the rozzas are dispatched and the miscreant is apprehended! Job done

And then you woke up, vowing never to eat cheese before bed time ever again

 

[Figaro]

Totally incorrect, the ANPR cameras read all information they hit on, and match it against a database. Imagine this scenario, my van gets nicked, and the miscreants put false plates on the van that are valid, but they don't know about the one on the roof. So they pass through an ANPR checkpoint (of which there are thousands) the standard plates read OK, but the ANPR hit on the one on the roof, this causes a match in the database, because I have reported my van stolen, the rozzas are dispatched and the miscreant is apprehended! Job done

I admire your faith in the plod to respond, but agreed if it makes you feel better for a £5 er then it`s money well spent.
Being of more mature years I don`t think my Hymer is on the hit list of most thieves, but I still padlock my seat in the reverse position and use security deadlocks.
I also need a new plate for the front as it was an advisory on last years MOT so I think I`ll buy the pair and put the spare rear one on the roof !
Nothing to lose

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[Nirvanauk]

A lot of the ANPR cameras are on motorway bridges looking down on vehicles so will pick up number plates on the roof as stated by ex policeman in former thread and surely a few quid is worth spending as it could return your pride and joy if stolen.

But how can an ANPR looking down pick up the plate which is on the front and back?

 

[Speve]

But how can an ANPR looking down pick up the plate which is on the front and back?

I'm no expert but having worked with the police for 14 years can assure you they do.

 

[EuroTrotters]

I am not knocking the plate idea!

You would be wise to fit tracker or the mobile phone Idea. As stated, the robbers will cotton on to the idea and the rozzers will not get em.

The Police are too busy or too busy wasting time doing other things. Especially here in South Manchester.

We reported physical assault and criminal damage by youths 10 days in a row, even whilst it was going on. We were told by GMP that "they had higher priority calls". Does not matter that there was a gang of 15 kids under 16 terrorising our neighbours and us. Including damage to my Wife's car.

One Friday night whilst we were away in the MH. Our Daughter who was living here with her family at the time, called the Police, when our Grandaughter was hit by a thrown object outside our house. She pointed out to the Police that they had been hit and one of our cars was damaged. The control room said they could not attend as there were higher priorities that night. I rang from the MH and was told "we will email your PCSO but he is off until next Tuesday"

Long story short, nothing was done, despite us following the little gits, providing their address and school they attended (some kids were in School uniform). I made a complaint to GMP. An inspector called around 5 months later and interviewed us. He advised us they were short staffed and that they are unable to cope.

I pointed out that two of his officers had followed me home only 4 days prior to his visit. Argued the toss about some minor traffic issue. Continued to debate the idea that they were in the right and I was clearly wrong. And that until I offered to solve the disagreement with my dashcam, wasted 30 mins being a pair of tin hats.

One of the aforementioned officers was then sent around to re-open the case (clearly after getting a right bollocking off his Inspector).

All the information and evidence including CCTV was provided to GMP. A week later, we received a letter stating "insufficient evidence - case closed"

We paid for the damage to the car and the kinds came back a few weeks later kicked my neighbours fence in and stuck two fingers up to his cameras.

My Cousin, a high ranking officer who has just retired from the force and my old school pal who is still on the beat said.....

"Next time, ring up and tell the Police they have made racist comments"



Again I am not knocking the plate idea!

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[sdc77]

I'm no expert but having worked with the police for 14 years can assure you they do.

Of course they pick up plates on the front and rear.. and they also get a nice pic of the front or rear of the vehicle at the same time.. this is due to where they are focused. They pick up any readable text they can focus on but once again .. there's no guarantee that they will pick up anything on the roof and .. motorways aside where they tend to be higher .. most A road and urban cameras will not pick up roof markings . This includes the roof markings on security vans and public service vehicles .. Police vehicles etc .. there's a posibility they would possibly maybe .. have an outside chance. by accident on a motorway .. but all that will happen is a picture of a white roof with a vrm will pop up.. it would probably be assumed to be a missread.