240v appliances on hook up (1 Viewer)

[hogger]

Hello all

The gaffer went and bought a microwave for bebe.....Yes the van has been given a name now by the gaffer.
Can you use 240v appliances such as microwave or hair dryer, coffee machine when on EHU?
The microwave is still in the box in the garage so can take it back.

 

[Lenny HB]

Yes, we've had trouble with our jacuzzi when the washing machine and tumble dryer are being used and the microwave is normally the last straw. Still, you have to make the odd sacrifice to enjoy the moho experience

Well I've got the washing machine but I'm interested in how you got the jacuzzi in the Motorhome.

 

[Puddleduck]

Usually worth turning off any electric heating to use the likes of a microwave, saves going out and resetting the site trip in the rain.

Or having to pull everything out of a locker to get to the reset button on the van supply .......

My sister-in-law tripped the switch in her Italian house and was convinced her electric had been cut off because she had gone over her allowance for the month. Trying to explain the difference between Ah, Kw and Kw/h proved impossible and eventually she did listen to Martin telling her how to reset it (I'd told her exactly the same) and then we had to explain over and over and over that if she switched on the immersion heater and it was heating the water she should not use two other appliances at the same time.

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[autorouter]

I'd have thought it would use less power at a lower voltage.

If it's a 'dumb' load like a hair dryer or kettle, if you lower the voltage the amps goes lower, so the power is also lower.
If it's an intelligent load like a battery charger or laptop power brick, if you lower the voltage, the device increases the amps to keep the power the same.
If it's a mixture, like a microwave with digital electronics, who knows?

 

[tonyidle]

But it is an inductive load not resistive.

Agreed but the principle remains the same (unless the frequency changes).

 

[pappajohn]

Also be aware...... An 800watt microwave means the output is 800watts.
Look at the label on the back and see what the INPUT wattage is.
Watts divided by volts = amps
1000watts is near enough 4.3amps and may trip some foreign hookup posts.

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[hogger]

Jings ma boab see what I started here......most of it over my head. Does make me wonder whether we have electricians in the house though and it would be interesting to hear what some folk do or did for a living but that's for another post I think. Me... a Chef for nearly 50yrs. Turned to pastry for past 20.

 

[Cal54]

Well I can say I like the microwave in my van - was factory fitted when I bought it. Great for soups, beans, sauces etc and came in handy when doing Xmas lunch! When not on EHU it is used as a bread cupboard!!

 

[bexleyjohn]

Re-German vans. We have a Dethleffs with the normal Schaub control box and no problems at all when on a UK site with a 16amp supply using it to the max. Electric kettle, hair drier, electric fan heater etc
Obviously there is a need to know how many amps the sites are offering - European sites can be as low as 3amps and not always reliable.
However, make sure you have a polarity checking device with you and a short polarity swapping cable/plugs.

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[two]

Treat your new toy as an opportunity to escape your current lifestyle, rather than take it with you.
Also an opportunity to explore different ways of cooking that don't need electricity.
There's much more to explore when you can disconnect yourself from EHU.

 

[pixer]

I also like the microwave in our van. Found a low watt small microwave with 700w grill (some time ago) and used it loose so to speak in previous van. Have fitted it permanently in latest one. Definitely agree with others watch out for low amp EHU's especially on continental sites. Have on many occasions had to explain to campers especially with big vans in the Autumn, that when they turn on their 2000 watt or more heating 3000 watt kettle and 1500 watt electic hob etc, why their electricty goes off on a 5 amp EHU bollard!
Microwaves great for cooking vegetables, beans sliced potatoes etc. Very good for people with dietry intolerances. Also good for fish and reheating meals. Not good for meat unless stewed! Basically anything that has sufficient water content. Had some very good Micro wave ready meals and soups in France. Why do they taste so much better than the ones we get in this country? Still using some reusable micro waveable containers brought back from a trip across the USA in a big RV that had a massive microwave and fridge freezer. Remember after using microwave leave food for a minute or two to finish cooking and cool a little. Make allowances for this in cooking time.
Don't brush off the micro wave. It has its place and use especially if you have a continental style Motorhome that only has a two ring gas hob with no grill/oven and you stay on sites with EHU. It is a matter of personal choice and whatever suits your requirements.

 

[snoozer]

....... However, make sure you have a polarity checking device with you and a short polarity swapping cable/plugs.

But beware of some Spanish sites where both Live and Neutral are 120v from earth. No matter which way round you connect the EHU the mains checker shows a fault. I only found out what the problem was by checking with a meter.

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[peterc10]

However, make sure you have a polarity checking device with you and a short polarity swapping cable/plugs.

OH NO ....... now you have opened up another can of worms. I will get the popcorn out

 

[bigalw35]

Re-German vans. We have a Dethleffs with the normal Schaub control box and no problems at all when on a UK site with a 16amp supply using it to the max. Electric kettle, hair drier, electric fan heater etc
Obviously there is a need to know how many amps the sites are offering - European sites can be as low as 3amps and not always reliable.
However, make sure you have a polarity checking device with you and a short polarity swapping cable/plugs.

We were on a site in France a few years ago in charleville meziere we were there twice in 3 weeks, first time incorrect polarity (north side) second time correct (south side) the euros don’t care as much as we do about polarity, so I always carry a conversion lead

 

[funflair]

Depends on the EHU supply, in the UK most are either 10 amp or 16 amp. Also on the MCB's in your van German vans for example are nearly always 10 amp max.
EHU's in France/Spain/Portugal 5 or 6 amp is very common, Italy 3 amp is not unusual.
Microwaves can take up to twice the rated current on startup.

You need a combi inverter/charger with network compensation Lenny I am sure you know how they work but for anybody who doesn't I will try to explain,

A prerequisite is decent batteries preferably LiFePO4

Then, you simply plug into the electric hook up and whatever the amp capacity is you set this into your inverter/charger unit, so for example you have a 5A limit you set this in and then say you turn on the electric kettle at 2.4kw so you are needing at least 10A, the unit will see the demand and first switch off the charger then it starts the inverter matching the frequency to the incoming 5A then it makes up the difference via the inverter from your batteries the kettle boils without anything tripping, when the demand reduces the charger switches back on and puts back whatever it has taken out of your batteries.

Just like Magic

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[two]

Rely on one of those too much and you can wake-up to a flat battery (if the supply trips and you don't realise).
You should add a little gizmo to alarm you if the EHU drops.

 

[funflair]

Rely on one of those too much and you can wake-up to a flat battery (if the supply trips and you don't realise).
You should add a little gizmo to alarm you if the EHU drops.

You still have to use a bit of common sense for sure but the loads you are likely to use from the inverter are going to be or should be one offs like kettle, microwave, toaster, hair dryer etc so if the supply drops out they just don't work, more permanent loads like heating are through a different circuit and not backed up by the inverter so simply don't work without hook up.

 

[two]

That's what I did, changed it to feed the Alde heater before the inverter/charger.
But then you need to set the max current available even lower, assuming that the heater might be working.
Mine had been wired to run everything after the inverter.

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[funflair]

That's what I did, changed it to feed the Alde heater before the inverter/charger.
But then you need to set the max current available even lower, assuming that the heater might be working.
Mine had been wired to run everything after the inverter.

I fitted an Alde load monitor to negate that but yes you are right, before I fitted it I just set at 2A on a 6A supply.

 

[two]

So now you have to set both Load Monitor and Multiplus to the available EHU Amp.

 

[Ian Bosman]

Yes. Assuming nothing goes over the wattage the van trips will allow.

Or the EHU allows. Watch out for sites with 16amp connectors (the blue three pins ones) but wired into 10amps or 6amps which you generally only find out when the kettle trips the circuit or whatever.

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[hogger]

Treat your new toy as an opportunity to escape your current lifestyle, rather than take it with you.
Also an opportunity to explore different ways of cooking that don't need electricity.
There's much more to explore when you can disconnect yourself from EHU.

Yes how very true. We are both looking forward to the times we can go over to france/spain etc and visit the markets for fresh fish and other goodies which we will look forward to cooking on the barbie/ foreman grill etc. I'm a chef and Teresa is a very good cook too so really looking forward to it.

 

[hogger]

A prerequisite is decent batteries preferably LiFePO4

So you recommend these Lenny? good to know. I've been reading up on the subject and watched a few videos but I still can't make up my mind.

I am also going to approach the dealer that did the recall work on the van for a price on a solar set up. I don't know how the last owners used the van but they didn't fit anything. I assume they must have used campsites all the time. I know they only used it in the UK.
I know we will use the van off grid at some point and I feel we may need it abroad going by the comments on this post as I just do not get all this electrical stuff. I don't want to arrive at a site in france intending to spend a few days there to find I cannot access power for whatever reason. I want to be as self sufficient as possible.

I'd be grateful for advice on what to get fitted. I want it done right as I just do not have the knowledge to do it myself. If it costs 1-1.5k so be it or would that be a cheapo set up?

 

[hogger]

A prerequisite is decent batteries preferably LiFePO4

whoops replied to Lenny on this. My apologies

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[cmcardle75]

I'd have thought it would use less power at a lower voltage. If you plugged it into a 12vac power supply would the microwave use 66.6 amps? (800w) extreme difference I know but where do you draw the line.
Some regulated LEDs use more amps at lower voltage but that's the only thing I've come across.

It would do exactly that if you plugged it in via an inverter. Most modern electronics, will pull the power it requires and are very tolerant of voltage changes. Only low tech stuff like heating elements actually follow ohm's law.

 

[cmcardle75]

But the load doesn't change. Simplistically 240V / 3.3A / 72 Ohms / 800W. 0r 210V / 2.9A / 72 Ohms / 609W. The microwave will under-perform.

It is an electronic device. It is up to the designer whether it is tolerant of voltage changes (i.e. notices a decrease in voltage and increases current in compensation). More modern devices tend to accept large voltage ranges and will increase current accordingly with reduced voltages. Cheaper or older designs tend not to bother.

 

[cmcardle75]

I notice they have not allowed for the startup power of a Microwave.

Actually they have. MCBs/RCBOs do not trip at their rating. They already allow for inrush/startup currents for the required period. 'B' curves allow for typical domestic inrush currents (a minimum 3 times their rated current). 'C' allow for industrial ones (i.e. more severe motor style currents with a minimum 5 times their rated current). There are other specialist curves, but you are only likely to come across 'B' and 'C' rated devices.

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[cmcardle75]

But beware of some Spanish sites where both Live and Neutral are 120v from earth. No matter which way round you connect the EHU the mains checker shows a fault. I only found out what the problem was by checking with a meter.

I wouldn't even say beware. That is a very sensible arrangement, safer than a 0 & 230V one, as it reduces potential fault power flow by a factor of 4. The problem is if your switchgear is single pole, which would be a poor choice for a vehicle installation.

 

[Lenny HB]

Actually they have. MCBs/RCBOs do not trip at their rating. They already allow for inrush/startup currents for the required period. 'B' curves allow for typical domestic inrush currents (a minimum 3 times their rated current). 'C' allow for industrial ones (i.e. more severe motor style currents with a minimum 5 times their rated current). There are other specialist curves, but you are only likely to come across 'B' and 'C' rated devices.

I know that but microwaves still often trip them, also bear in mind there can be more one user connected to the same bollard, not unusual abroad to see an adaptor plugged in an 3 or 4 vans on a single 5amp outlet.

 

[funflair]

So you recommend these Lenny? good to know. I've been reading up on the subject and watched a few videos but I still can't make up my mind.

I am also going to approach the dealer that did the recall work on the van for a price on a solar set up. I don't know how the last owners used the van but they didn't fit anything. I assume they must have used campsites all the time. I know they only used it in the UK.
I know we will use the van off grid at some point and I feel we may need it abroad going by the comments on this post as I just do not get all this electrical stuff. I don't want to arrive at a site in france intending to spend a few days there to find I cannot access power for whatever reason. I want to be as self sufficient as possible.

I'd be grateful for advice on what to get fitted. I want it done right as I just do not have the knowledge to do it myself. If it costs 1-1.5k so be it or would that be a cheapo set up?

I would go for rigid panels rather than stick on flexible ones and make sure you get a decent MPPT controller, not sure what dealers charge.

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[tonyidle]

Cheaper or older designs tend not to bother.

Most microwaves are in that category. Only a few (more expensive ones) use inverter technology. Otherwise I agree with you.