2004 Rapido with 2.8JTD engine refuses to start, help please?

[ambulancekidd]

We've been trying to recommission a 2004 Rapido which is on a Ducato chassis with the FIAT 2.8 JTD engine & we simply cannot get it to fire up.
The immobiliser has been giving us some grief & we thought we had overcome the difficulties, but I'm not so sure.
This vehicle has been off the road since October.

I'm not at the vehicle every day but have been trying to help my friend as much as I can.

Steps so far, new Battery as the old one was toast.
Earths checked & cleaned all good.
Immobiliser batteries changed on both fobs; I am deeply suspicious of the immobiliser & because the van is an A-Class it does not have the usual overhead lights at the courtesy light etc.
Today, he has cracked off the injectors, but has no fuel getting through when the engine is cranked over! However, it will fire instantly with a quick burst of brake cleaner sprayed into the air filter housing, then stops.
One further problem is that he says he cannot get the three nuts off the air filter housing as they just spin around. If memory serves me right, these nuts go onto rubber mountings, is that correct? We would like to get to the fuel filter to check it over.

All Assistance will be very gratefully received.

 

[Figaro]

Sounds like lack of fuel to me, have you checked / can you hear the fuel pump running with ignition on ?
On my JTD, I turn the ignition on, press the immobiliser fob and the fuel pump can be heard starting, up but not until fob pressed
Fuel filter might need changing ?

I think the three screws on the air filter just screw into the opposite face. I changed mine for hex bolts. Inside there are three more bolts fixing the housing to the bodywork via rubber bushes

 

[Diabalo]

I would Jury rig a gravity fed fuel supply to rule out the pump

 

[eurajohn]

I would Jury rig a gravity fed fuel supply to rule out the pump

2004 2.8 bit too sophisticated for that to work I think.

 

[TheBig1]

Mechanical pump needing an overhaul?

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[Wildbill]

Daft qweston but has it got disel in it if so Sound's to me like a immobilizer problem.
If not check the pump in the tank try gravity feed.
Do check weirs to fuel pump solenoid
Tryi leak down test on injectors could be fuel run back
Bill

 

[Two on Tour]

I would start at the lift pump in the tank and make sure that it is getting power with the ignition on and if it is, is it pumping fuel out of the tank.

 

[Two on Tour]

A couple of other things to check, is the fuel pump fuse okay (should be fuse 21 in the engine bay fuse box), and it's worth checking the crash protection switch has not popped and needs resetting.

 

[ambulancekidd]

Sounds like lack of fuel to me, have you checked / can you hear the fuel pump running with ignition on ?
On my JTD, I turn the ignition on, press the immobiliser fob and the fuel pump can be heard starting, up but not until fob pressed
Fuel filter might need changing ?

I think the three screws on the air filter just screw into the opposite face. I changed mine for hex bolts. Inside there are three more bolts fixing the housing to the bodywork via rubber bushes

We've never tried your tip of ignition on then pressing the immobiliser fob button, is that the way it's supposed to be used?
There is a buzzer going off when the key is turned, so it's a bit difficult to hear if the fuel pump is running.
The vehicle was running perfectly when it was laid up & it has a quarter of a tank of diesel.

 

[Kelsae2]

If it has been laid up since October with a quarter tank of diesel will there not be water in the tank from it sitting.

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[Manic]

Has it got a fuel cutoff button one the bulkhead.( I could be talking b*****ks)
The bolts on my air filter housing gave up and I replaced them with something like this.

4Pcs M6 Rubber Mounts 20x15mm Anti Vibration Car Boat Bobbin Damper Pump Set UK | eBay

Size: 20x15mm. 4 x M6 Anti Vibration Rubber Bobbin Mounts. The internal friction, good damping effect, is conducive to cross the resonance region, high frequency vibration and noise attenuation. Threaded: M6.

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[ambulancekidd]

Daft qweston but has it got disel in it if so Sound's to me like a immobilizer problem.
If not check the pump in the tank try gravity feed.
Do check weirs to fuel pump solenoid
Tryi leak down test on injectors could be fuel run back
Bill

Fuel running back to the tank had crossed my mind Bill.
I'm with you on an immobiliser fault, I hate the bloody things & I'd really like to try a direct power feed from battery to the pump solenoid.

 

[denisejoe]

The fuel cut off is on the left hand side as you look at the engine press the rubber end https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/ducato-2-8jtd-fuel-shut-off-valve-location.258747/

 

[ambulancekidd]

If it has been laid up since October with a quarter tank of diesel will there not be water in the tank from it sitting.

I'll try draining the water trap tomorrow, that should also tell me if there is actually fuel at the filter.

 

[poppycamper]

Fuel shut off solenoid not opening??

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[Jev88]

My 2.5tdi had a dodgy immobiliser. The immobiliser only job is to turn on or off a 12V supply to the fuel pump. If OFF the engine will turn over and over but will not fire as no fuel.

 

[eddie]

If you email me eddie@vanbitz.com I’ll email you instructions to remove the immobiliser

 

[donkey]

Start at the beginning. Identify fuel supply pipe at filter. Remove pipe, switch on ignition. If no fuel spurting out, then ignore solenoid valve, injectors, filter etc.
You may only get about half a litre each time you operate the key, that's quite normal.
Having ascertained that there is or is not fuel getting to the filter, you can proceed with further checks.

Geoff

 

[wanderer]

Not sure if this the same but my 2004 2.8 jtd had a similar problem a few years ago . It started with a completely flat battery and after replacing it would not fire up , after a lot of investigation it turned out to be the alarm not recognising the immobiliser via the keys . Had to re- enter the codes through the alarm key pad for each key , started straight away.

 

[nicholsong]

You need my Engine Mechanic who says -

"No diesel refuses to start when I am present"

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[Wildbill]

If you email me eddie@vanbitz.com I’ll email you instructions to remove the immobiliser

ambulancekidd go with that on from eddievanbitz completely bypass the Dam
thing.
Bill

 

[ambulancekidd]

The motorhome I've been talking about is running now.
So, the rundown goes, battery dead, replaced.
Immobiliser batteries low, both plipper batteries replaced, remember that they take two batteries each plipper.
Vehicle was now turning over, but not starting, tank fuel pump seized, now replaced & the vehicle started instantly.

Thanks to everyone who offered help, this forum still astonishes me with the formation which is available.