Portugal EASYToll Fine - even though registered (1 Viewer)

[March Hare]

We were in Portugal in March, and registered with the Portugal EASYToll system via the kiosk in the A22 layby.

During our stay of approx a week, we were correctly charged for the e-tolls direct to the credit card.

We've now received a fine in the post from a UK based fine collection organisation.

I've tried to appeal, explaining that the other Portuguese e-tolls were charged correctly to our CC for the same journey on the same day as the fine.

They've come back to say the fine still stands.

Has anyone had the same experience - any suggestions?

 

[Diabalo]

Are you sure it's not a scam?

 

[PP Bear]

My thoughts are scam and they want your CC details. If you’ve got evidence of paying I’d throw them in the bin and tell em to get lost.

Wonder how they got your info and address, along with dates traveled and tolls you’ve used. Possibly a scam between unscrupulous people in both countries.

 

[March Hare]

Are you sure it's not a scam?

I don't believe it is a scam, as it's the same fine collection organisation that handles all the ULEZ fines in the UK, and you appeal via their online portal etc.

Also, on the letter they had all the correct vehicle info - reg etc, and the road / time info was correct.

 

[simsy56]

Sounds like a scam. If you have paid correctly, ignore them.

Craig

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[Rogerwyn]

there are 2 types of motorways in Portugal the one you need to register for use and those that will have toll booths with fast lanes for tag users, did they send you a photo of your van and location.

 

[Brains]

We were in Portugal in March, and registered with the Portugal EASYToll system via the kiosk in the A22 layby.

During our stay of approx a week, we were correctly charged for the e-tolls direct to the credit card.

We've now received a fine in the post from a UK based fine collection organisation.

I've tried to appeal, explaining that the other Portuguese e-tolls were charged correctly to our CC for the same journey on the same day as the fine.

They've come back to say the fine still stands.

Has anyone had the same experience - any suggestions?

It's winter time, so you have time on your hands, and better still, you are in the right!

You can either ignore this, or you can fight.
If you are fighting, you can have fun.

First rules with dealing with parking companies.
You ONLY EVER deal with written letters. no phone calls, no emails.
Remember they are Evil, there are no rules of decency or deceit.

It costs the companies several pounds to deal with a letter, as they have to be opened, sorted, scanned, sent to the correct department, and they can not be searched on.

It helps if you use blue paper to write your letter on, as you can not scan blue paper letters.

To further 'assist' the company actually hand write the letter (on blue paper), it then becomes impossible to deal with except by a total manual operation, which as these companies outsource work, is impossible.

Always leave replies to the last moment, this ensures lack of continuity as the letters are weeks apart, ensure they are dated correctly though.

The company will try, very hard, to contact you by land line, email, and mobile.
They will even use tricks to confirm it's you.
They will also try contacting family members.
Claim it's a wrong number every time.

All letters are to be in hand written envelopes, addressed to the CEO by name, and marked personal.
This ensures you are wasting the time of the most expensive person in the company, and his secretary, and the person who has to deliver the letter internally, and then deal with it internally.

Be creepy, very creepy. As in stalker creepy.
Refer to the CEO by his first name, ask how the kids are (by name), like the dog etc.

Every letter is to have a standard 'E&OE' on the top
Every letter is to have a standard 'Charges clause' Ideally use their own wording, to say you charge £60 per hour or part thereof to deal with their issues.

If you have several points to make as to why you should not pay, never use more than one issue on a letter at a time.
Use the least important first.

They then have to deal with the first minor issue, before they then have to deal with the next issue as a separate letter, all extra time and money.

Always refer back to previous letters, especially if they do not exist.
It means the person dealing with the issue has to search back to find the (non-existent) letter.
This is all extra time and money

At some point they will refer this to a debt collection agency.
Immediately contact the debt collection agency (Letter, blue paper, same rules) and tell them that you are in dispute with the parking company and are currently taking them to the small claims court.
The debt collection agency will drop a hot potato

The bottom line is even if you end up having to pay the idea is for it to be a Pyric Victory, where the cost is greater that the gain.

If you do end up having to pay, ensure you pay the original company (by cheque, as they cost money to process, and make it 1p more than asked, as this messes up the accounts system).
Payment then causes a problem for the debt collection agency who own the debt

.... and if the company is Parking Eye then go in even heavier handed.

 

[March Hare]

Sounds like a scam. If you have paid correctly, ignore them.

Craig

Thanks for this, but the problem is I really don't believe this is a scam - the letter had a photo of the motorhome and correct name/address etc etc.

Also, we've been correctly charged for other e-tolls that day, but we've no idea how many e-toll gantry's we went under on the motorway, so don't know if we've paid the correct number, or not.

We think that for some reason, one of the tolls has not been processed correctly, and not matched to our EASYToll account.

 

[March Hare]

there are 2 types of motorways in Portugal the one you need to register for use and those that will have toll booths with fast lanes for tag users, did they send you a photo of your van and location.

Yes we had a photo on the letter and the location / timing is correct.

It was on the A25, from Lisbon in a NE direction up towards Burgos in Northern Spain.

This is one of the motorways covered by the e-tolls (charged direct to your EASYToll account).

 

[March Hare]

It's winter time, so you have time on your hands, and better still, you are in the right!

You can either ignore this, or you can fight.
If you are fighting, you can have fun.

First rules with dealing with parking companies.
You ONLY EVER deal with written letters. no phone calls, no emails.
Remember they are Evil, there are no rules of decency or deceit.

It costs the companies several pounds to deal with a letter, as they have to be opened, sorted, scanned, sent to the correct department, and they can not be searched on.

It helps if you use blue paper to write your letter on, as you can not scan blue paper letters.

To further 'assist' the company actually hand write the letter (on blue paper), it then becomes impossible to deal with except by a total manual operation, which as these companies outsource work, is impossible.

Always leave replies to the last moment, this ensures lack of continuity as the letters are weeks apart, ensure they are dated correctly though.

The company will try, very hard, to contact you by land line, email, and mobile.
They will even use tricks to confirm it's you.
They will also try contacting family members.
Claim it's a wrong number every time.

All letters are to be in hand written envelopes, addressed to the CEO by name, and marked personal.
This ensures you are wasting the time of the most expensive person in the company, and his secretary, and the person who has to deliver the letter internally, and then deal with it internally.

Be creepy, very creepy. As in stalker creepy.
Refer to the CEO by his first name, ask how the kids are (by name), like the dog etc.

Every letter is to have a standard 'E&OE' on the top
Every letter is to have a standard 'Charges clause' Ideally use their own wording, to say you charge £60 per hour or part thereof to deal with their issues.

If you have several points to make as to why you should not pay, never use more than one issue on a letter at a time.
Use the least important first.

They then have to deal with the first minor issue, before they then have to deal with the next issue as a separate letter, all extra time and money.

Always refer back to previous letters, especially if they do not exist.
It means the person dealing with the issue has to search back to find the (non-existent) letter.
This is all extra time and money

At some point they will refer this to a debt collection agency.
Immediately contact the debt collection agency (Letter, blue paper, same rules) and tell them that you are in dispute with the parking company and are currently taking them to the small claims court.
The debt collection agency will drop a hot potato

The bottom line is even if you end up having to pay the idea is for it to be a Pyric Victory, where the cost is greater that the gain.

If you do end up having to pay, ensure you pay the original company (by cheque, as they cost money to process, and make it 1p more than asked, as this messes up the accounts system).
Payment then causes a problem for the debt collection agency who own the debt

.... and if the company is Parking Eye then go in even heavier handed.

Thanks Brains! It's definitely tempting to "take them on", but I have to say that I've not had much luck with doing that in the past, and I end up paying the fine ..... It's not Parking Eye by the way, but it's definitely one of the "big guns" as far as fine collection goes!

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[gus-lopez]

If it is EPC Plc they couldn't lie in bed straight & are not averse to using any type of methods, including illegal criminal ones, to obtain the money by deception. If you have paid all those before & after on the same stretch of road then the problem is the portugese operators. I'd use Brains method & have done the same myself in the past.

 

[Diabalo]

Surely it's their fault if you have registered for EASYtoll and their kit has cocked up. Why have they seen you on the system on the other occasions and not the one you have been fined for? All very odd.

 

[Steve and Denise]

I don't believe it is a scam, as it's the same fine collection organisation that handles all the ULEZ fines in the UK, and you appeal via their online portal etc.

Also, on the letter they had all the correct vehicle info - reg etc, and the road / time info was correct.

I think I would tell them to come and try to collect it, you have proof of payment on your statement

 

[Brains]

I think I would tell them to come and try to collect it, you have proof of payment on your statement

The problem is that by the stage they move it to a debt collection agency, they bailiffs don't care as they have bought the debt.
You can prove all you like that it's not owed, but it's not their problem.

Hence deal with it before it gets to the debt collection agency, but you can still give bailiffs a real run around.

 

[nicholsong]

I think that there is a jurisdiction problem here, that unless the Portuguese authorities, or their agents, have applied to an English Court they cannot enforce the fine in the English Jurisdiction.

I suggest you ask if there is an English Order for enforcement.

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[makems]

And if you do end up paying, make sure the cheque has been folded and is stapled at least twice to the accompanying letter (on blue paper). This means the cheque can not be processed by automatic handling equipment and has to be processed by hand.

 

[Razamataz]

It's winter time, so you have time on your hands, and better still, you are in the right!

You can either ignore this, or you can fight.
If you are fighting, you can have fun.

First rules with dealing with parking companies.
You ONLY EVER deal with written letters. no phone calls, no emails.
Remember they are Evil, there are no rules of decency or deceit.

It costs the companies several pounds to deal with a letter, as they have to be opened, sorted, scanned, sent to the correct department, and they can not be searched on.

It helps if you use blue paper to write your letter on, as you can not scan blue paper letters.

To further 'assist' the company actually hand write the letter (on blue paper), it then becomes impossible to deal with except by a total manual operation, which as these companies outsource work, is impossible.

Always leave replies to the last moment, this ensures lack of continuity as the letters are weeks apart, ensure they are dated correctly though.

The company will try, very hard, to contact you by land line, email, and mobile.
They will even use tricks to confirm it's you.
They will also try contacting family members.
Claim it's a wrong number every time.

All letters are to be in hand written envelopes, addressed to the CEO by name, and marked personal.
This ensures you are wasting the time of the most expensive person in the company, and his secretary, and the person who has to deliver the letter internally, and then deal with it internally.

Be creepy, very creepy. As in stalker creepy.
Refer to the CEO by his first name, ask how the kids are (by name), like the dog etc.

Every letter is to have a standard 'E&OE' on the top
Every letter is to have a standard 'Charges clause' Ideally use their own wording, to say you charge £60 per hour or part thereof to deal with their issues.

If you have several points to make as to why you should not pay, never use more than one issue on a letter at a time.
Use the least important first.

They then have to deal with the first minor issue, before they then have to deal with the next issue as a separate letter, all extra time and money.

Always refer back to previous letters, especially if they do not exist.
It means the person dealing with the issue has to search back to find the (non-existent) letter.
This is all extra time and money

At some point they will refer this to a debt collection agency.
Immediately contact the debt collection agency (Letter, blue paper, same rules) and tell them that you are in dispute with the parking company and are currently taking them to the small claims court.
The debt collection agency will drop a hot potato

The bottom line is even if you end up having to pay the idea is for it to be a Pyric Victory, where the cost is greater that the gain.

If you do end up having to pay, ensure you pay the original company (by cheque, as they cost money to process, and make it 1p more than asked, as this messes up the accounts system).
Payment then causes a problem for the debt collection agency who own the debt

.... and if the company is Parking Eye then go in even heavier handed.

You are a devil of a man
but fekin love yer style

 

[March Hare]

Thanks everyone for your replies! I'm keen to avoid paying the fine if poss, as who knows how many more fines might follow along due to the same processing error....

I'm going to contact Portugal Tolls direct to attack it from that end, rather than try and explain (again) to the UK fine enforcement organisation, as I suspect I'm not going to get anywhere with them!

Thanks again, I'll report back!

 

[cruiser]

We wish you the very best of luck. I would go down Brains route. but is up to you. Have fun, but do not worry to much. this could last till next year.

 

[Colino]

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned but I thought that easy tolls only work on some roads in Portugal, those that have like a WiFi signal on the signs. The other tolls without the sign have to be paid at the booths.
I believe, but I might be wrong. So if you've driven through a toll without the WiFi sign then that is probably why you're being fined. I would hazard a guess as to how they have your details and that is because you give them to them when you registered with easy tolls.
I think from what I recall myself that when you register online with easytoll it does mention that it doesn't work with all the tolls.
Hope you get it sorted Colin

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[Colino]

Início | Portugal Tolls

www.portugaltolls.com

 

[Colino]

 

[MichaelT]

How long were you there for as I think the registration lasts 30 days then has to be renewed so is it possible you were there longer?

Edit. I see you said you were there a week.. only other thing is did you go through a automated gate reserved for tag users and not easy toll?

 

[March Hare]

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned but I thought that easy tolls only work on some roads in Portugal, those that have like a WiFi signal on the signs. The other tolls without the sign have to be paid at the booths.
I believe, but I might be wrong. So if you've driven through a toll without the WiFi sign then that is probably why you're being fined. I would hazard a guess as to how they have your details and that is because you give them to them when you registered with easy tolls.
I think from what I recall myself that when you register online with easytoll it does mention that it doesn't work with all the tolls.
Hope you get it sorted Colin

Thanks Colin - and also for the link below to the EASYToll Map.

I've double checked the map and the route we took the day of the fine, which was the A25, and it is marked as e-tolls. It certainly had gantries and not toll booths. I've also auto-paid other A25 EASYToll tolls from that day/journey (we were heading home from Lisbon, so only drove that road the once).' Ive marked up the A25 on the map below.

Thanks again!

 

[chaser]

How much do they want?

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[March Hare]

How much do they want?

I don't have the letter in front of me, but about £70.

 

[chaser]

I don't have the letter in front of me, but about £70.

Not a small amount then , is there a discount for early payment?

 

[March Hare]

Not a small amount then , is there a discount for early payment?

Thanks Chaser, there's no discount for early payment.

Funnily enough, I've checked on the Google reviews for the fine collecting organisation in the UK, and one of the recent reviews is from someone who was in exactly the same position as we are in now with Portugal Tolls - ie. that he was registered with EASYTolls, received some tolls directly to his payment card, but then also received a fine from them via the same fine collection company.

I guess the moral of the story is to get a toll tag!

 

[MichaelT]

What exactly is the fine for? Is it non payment of a toll or something else like using a tag lane?

 

[chaser]

Thanks Chaser, there's no discount for early payment.

Funnily enough, I've checked on the Google reviews for the fine collecting organisation in the UK, and one of the recent reviews is from someone who was in exactly the same position as we are in now with Portugal Tolls - ie. that he was registered with EASYTolls, received some tolls directly to his payment card, but then also received a fine from them via the same fine collection company.

I guess the moral of the story is to get a toll tag!

So is that something different?

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