No Holidays abroad Allowed (3 Viewers)

[The Wino]

Misquoting me again I see

You actually said this " If you don't consider 99.76% a high enough safety margin you re going to have some problems". Obviously I misinterpreted. Apologies if you don't think it's safe enough.

 

[jongood]

You actually said this " If you don't consider 99.76% a high enough safety margin you re going to have some problems". Obviously I misinterpreted. Apologies if you don't think it's safe enough.

I would actually be happy enough at a lower level. I was wondering what level you would be happy at (I asked first)

 

[MITHRANDIR]

Sorry ok "not a lot". But you did say you thought 75/100,000 was a reasonable level to allow travel but then 240/100,000 was not a lot!. I was struggling to see the logic. I think the way numbers are presented can make a huge difference to how they appear. For example jongood said that 99.76% negative should be safe enough for anyone but your figure of 75/100,000 would require it to be 99.925% safe before allowing travel you are actually way more conservative in what you want than him.

There you go again!, misquoting, 75/100,000 was/is "safe" for "me" only, i didn't say generally.
that figure may/is different for everyone.
What is more important than anyone's opinion is what the government thinks, ours and others i read someone quoted on MHF, "some people think covid is like an all enveloping fog", which of course it's not.
I deemed it safe to go to france last year, against advice from the government, i had my 14 day isolation and stuck to it, was i wrong?, i don't think so.
Do i think covid is dangerous, yes absolutely, needs to be respected at all times at home and abroad, if you don't it might kill you, and others.
The debate was/is on motorhome travel and whether it should/shouldn't be undertaken/allowed, not on general overseas travel.

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[Rob Hammond]

Around and around we go

 

[The Wino]

I would actually be happy enough at a lower level. I was wondering what level you would be happy at (I asked first)

Post 345. I don't think it's as easy as a level of so many per 100,000 and it's fine. It will depend on lot's of variables particularly how well we are doing here,how they compae to us and the variants of the disease present. Let's say it was 75 per 100,000 in Europe but 80% were a variant resistant to our common vaccinations would it be sensible to let loose a few hundred thousand Brits off on their jollies with no quarantine no way.

 

[jongood]

Post 345. I don't think it's as easy as a level of so many per 100,000 and it's fine. It will depend on lot's of variables particularly how well we are doing here,how they compae to us and the variants of the disease present. Let's say it was 75 per 100,000 in Europe but 80% were a variant resistant to our common vaccinations would it be sensible to let loose a few hundred thousand Brits off on their jollies with no quarantine no way.

I struggle to believe that our vaccines wouldnt give most of us adequate protection, other vaccines work for the majority. but if you ve got an underlying issue you re going to be more vulnerable so if you know this you need to be more careful . It doesnt justify locking up the 97% who are going to be OK and arguably never has.

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[busby]

I dont understand this vaccine thing,,I had loads of vaccinations when in the RAF for lots of diseases like Yellow Fever etc etc and after having them it was supposed to protect me from catching nasty things if i was posted to most places in the world..Like wise i have flu jab,have had polio etc vaccinations and have never been told i am not protected and to isolate..Why is it then this Covid vaccination is not going to protect me ??? BUSBY

 

[deleted79651]

Whatever the propaganda machine says 0.24% is a very small number.

It's not the propaganda machine; the infection rates are quoted by the various SAGE experts, many of whom are professors of virology or related disciplines; and at least one is a WHO Advisor, based in Scotland, who has argued consistently for the tried and tested method of lockdown to reduce the spread of infection; closure of borders to stop importing further cases; driving down infection rates to elimination levels if eradication proves impossible; and, at that level, use Track & Trace [Test & Protect in Scotland] to reach the contacts of infectees within 48 hours.

The latter relies on low infection rates to enable the Tracing to be manageable and quick. Then cautious reopening of the economy, whilst developing the vaccine that will enable COVID to be managed like other viruses via annual vaccinations and sensible precautions such as no handshaking, when a revised 'normal living' emerges. Professor Devi Sridhar, based at University of Edinburgh, tweets regularly [including when journalists refer to her as a male ... 'I'm a bloke again!'], and has appeared on Channel 4 News on many occasions. She has also written several articles for the Guardian, couched in layperson's terms. She is the youngest Rhodes Scholar, has been a Professor for years, but is still only 36 years old. Apart from all that talent and experience, she is also one of life's nice people to boot.

Steve

 

[suavecarve]

I think yesterday's figures for the UK component countries were reported yesterday with Scotland peaking at 240 per 100k of population; Engalnd around 350 per 100k of population; and Wales at over 400 per 100k of population. I can't remember whether a figure was reported for N. Ireland, but Scotland's high infection rate, rising steadily over the last 10 days or so, has raised a few eyebrows/anxieties. Scotland has, though, undertaken more testing of late and has picked up a decent number of asymptomatic cases, so possible that many have been wandering around, blissfully unaware that they could be spreading the virus rather than the word ...
IIRC, Germany had set an infection rate of 50 cases per 100k of population as the criterion for reopening its economy, but had decided to slow the pace because its rate was sitting at just over 100 about 2 weeks ago [just before the '3rd wave in Europe' fears surfaced].

Steve

Scotlands highest rate was 557 on 2nd Feb. It was quite a bit lower than UK's highest rate of 750 ish a couple of weeks earlier than that.
I have Scotland currently on 116. A slight rise. England on 109 and UK on 110.

I also note that Scotland do 25,000 tests per day, according to the figures, a country 1/11th the size of England.
So Scotland would equate to 275,000 tests per day if they were the same size as England who do 1.2 million yesterday.

I would be interested where you got your figures from to clarify what you read.

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[suavecarve]

It's not the propaganda machine; the infection rates are quoted by the various SAGE experts, many of whom are professors of virology or related disciplines; and at least one is a WHO Advisor, based in Scotland, who has argued consistently for the tried and tested method of lockdown to reduce the spread of infection; closure of borders to stop importing further cases; driving down infection rates to elimination levels if eradication proves impossible; and, at that level, use Track & Trace [Test & Protect in Scotland] to reach the contacts of infectees within 48 hours.

The latter relies on low infection rates to enable the Tracing to be manageable and quick. Then cautious reopening of the economy, whilst developing the vaccine that will enable COVID to be managed like other viruses via annual vaccinations and sensible precautions such as no handshaking, when a revised 'normal living' emerges. Professor Devi Sridhar, based at University of Edinburgh, tweets regularly [including when journalists refer to her as a male ... 'I'm a bloke again!'], and has appeared on Channel 4 News on many occasions. She has also written several articles for the Guardian, couched in layperson's terms. She is the youngest Rhodes Scholar, has been a Professor for years, but is still only 36 years old. Apart from all that talent and experience, she is also one of life's nice people to boot.

Steve

And they are absolutely right.
In order to achieve zero infections or next to zero infections we need to close our borders, lock everybody up and wait for a vaccine.
Thats where the scientists knowledge needs (imv) to be assessed by the politicians as there isnt a money tree available in order to save a few lives.
If that were the case with speeding, scientists would tell you we would need to stop motorcars driving until there was a safe way to make sure they didnt hit other vehicles or pedestrians, and they would be right, but we accept an amount of deaths on our roads and give it the mask equivalent of traffic calming measures.

 

[JJ]

The one thing on this topic that I am pretty damn sure of is that no one actually knows...

If I am vaccinated can I still catch it?

Can I still spread it?

How long lasting is it?

How do I know the needle is sterile?

How qualified is the person pumping the liquid into me?

Is it the correct liquid?

Will City win the Premier League yet again?

Why won't my bloody grass stop growing and growing and growing?

JJ

 

[suavecarve]

The one thing on this topic that I am pretty damn sure of is that no one actually knows...

If I am vaccinated can I still catch it? Yes

Can I still spread it? Yes

How long lasting is it? Nobody knows this one because there hasnt been enough time for it not to work

How do I know the needle is sterile? You dont, you ll probably die. Maybe not from an infected needle but youll probably die at some stage

How qualified is the person pumping the liquid into me? Does it matter ?

Is it the correct liquid? Probably

Will City win the Premier League yet again? Yes

Why won't my bloody grass stop growing and growing and growing? If you just allow it to grow, once it has reached a certain level it becomes a tree.

Always here to help.

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[MITHRANDIR]

Post 345. I don't think it's as easy as a level of so many per 100,000 and it's fine. It will depend on lot's of variables particularly how well we are doing here,how they compae to us and the variants of the disease present. Let's say it was 75 per 100,000 in Europe but 80% were a variant resistant to our common vaccinations would it be sensible to let loose a few hundred thousand Brits off on their jollies with no quarantine no

Are you advocating a zero covid policy before travel is resumed abroad then?
If you are then you will have a very long wait IMV.
If not then just what rate of infection/variation/vaccine rollout, is acceptable?,
Just interested what your view is.

 

[The Wino]

Are you advocating a zero covid policy before travel is resumed abroad then?
If you are then you will have a very long wait IMV.
If not then just what rate of infection/variation/vaccine rollout, is acceptable?,
Just interested what your view is.

I'm happy to follow the government experts at the moment and wait until they say its safe. I would hope after two previous attempts to open too quickly the government will hopefully have learned to take the advice offered.

 

[MITHRANDIR]

Just be aware, which i am sure you are, the government does not always follow what their experts recommend
Also, what must come into play is that the current government will want to stay in power and popularity.

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[The Wino]

Just be aware, which i am sure you are, the government does not always follow what their experts recommend
Also, what must come into play is that the current government will want to stay in power and popularity.

I did say that I hoped they were twice bitten once shy!

 

[Barclaybasher]

I did say that I hoped they were twice bitten once shy!

I am amazed how many folk place their faith (and health) in ANY government given that most of those employed at national or local level couldn't get a job in the real world...........

Do you not think for yourself?

How small does the infection have to go?

How many (other than front line) NHS employees are not at work?

 

[busby]

I am amazed how many folk place their faith (and health) in ANY government given that most of those employed at national or local level couldn't get a job in the real world...........

Do you not think for yourself?

How small does the infection have to go?

How many (other than front line) NHS employees are not at work?

Quite a few I think..BUSBY

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[suavecarve]

I am amazed how many folk place their faith (and health) in ANY government given that most of those employed at national or local level couldn't get a job in the real world...........

Do you not think for yourself?

How small does the infection have to go?

How many (other than front line) NHS employees are not at work?

I am, I missed 4 days work (all double time) because of having that app on my phone (I collected some lost property which included a phone of someone who had covid) and 3 days because HMG were pfaffing about trying to make a decision about when to allow people into the country from safer countries without Q14.

 

[TinaLes]

Please remember folks that the dates given by Boris for an ease to lock down, were only approximate, he did stress at that time that he would see how the overall Covid R rate was, hospital intake rates, & deaths at the time, before easing any restrictions. I knew that the media would ignore that all important point of his speech, and I think many of the public do also. I was just waiting for twisted face Laura Doomsberg to state to Boris that he was breaking his "Promise" to the nation.
Well as mentioned today, the R rate is increasing slightly now the schools are back as was expected, but it was interesting to see the proposed roll out of up to 12 new vaccines (dont hold your breath) by the Autumn of this year, so that the population that's already been vaccinated in many cases, can get another one that is more adapt to coping with the latest virus mutations. That tells me that the existing ones that some of us have had, are not going to offer the desired level of protection in the coming year for the latest African type strains, and we will probably need to have regular updated vaccinations to ward off any new mutations, providing of course the science can keep up, or stay in front.
As for this talk by some of the loss of civil liberties, being taken over by the state, told how to run our lives etc, what a load of tosh! This virus is a killer, if you honestly believe that the gov has exceeded its powers with the implementation to restrict our movements to save lives, the you obviously haven't lost a friend or relative, and you haven't seen anyone of any age struggling to breath on a ventilator.
I hope the gov bans all foreign travel for all of us until the infection rates & deaths have fallen dramatically in the world, especially to our neighbouring countries.
I also hope that all foreigners/returning UK citizens continue to have quarantine restrictions placed on them on arrival, until then we are all at risk of new variants spreading again.

I did hope that many would have seen and remembered The recent BBC covid documentary, showing the latest discoveries on how the virus affects the human body and how it spreads, and how mutations even in one county start, it was scary stuff, but most people are only interested in being let out at any cost, effectively underwriting yet another future lock down, or tier system.
I wish there was a better way of not coming into contact, or spreading the virus, other than not mixing or keeping social distance, but there isnt one.
The vaccine only protects you against suffering the more serious effects of Covid 19, ie: death or hospitalisation, hopefully, but no one has said it wont stop you catching it, albeit a mild version that can be treated.
So please be patient folks, we have come too far to let this thing get the upper hand again, even if some are saying we have lost our human rights...Covid doesn't give a damn about HR, or Politics.
LES

 

[The Wino]

I am amazed how many folk place their faith (and health) in ANY government given that most of those employed at national or local level couldn't get a job in the real world...........

Do you not think for yourself?

How small does the infection have to go?

How many (other than front line) NHS employees are not at work?

In our department lots me included end of the holiday year March 31st not allowed any carry over. I'm having to take 4 day's in march then work an Extra 4 day's in April to take later in the year madness!

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[Barclaybasher]

In our department lots me included end of the holiday year March 31st not allowed any carry over. I'm having to take 4 day's in march then work an Extra 4 day's in April to take later in the year madness!

Many departments in the NHS are not working - as I said - front line excluded....

Hospitalisations falling......

 

[The Wino]

Many departments in the NHS are not working - as I said - front line excluded....

Hospitalisations falling......

Either the whole thing works or non of it does. Can't see any patients without admin working as well and cleaners porters whatever.

 

[Barclaybasher]

Either the whole thing works or non of it does. Can't see any patients without admin working as well and cleaners porters whatever.

But the NHS is a giant corporation, costing taxpayers billions - it needs to be better

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[JJ]

Always here to help.

Are you good with lawn mowers then?

JJ

 

[kevenh]

Nice try mate, I'm not biting. I'm really struggling to think whats safer than 99.76% though

Your content on cloud storage.
Four 9s safety
Eleven 9s durability

JFF Hope a humorous reply is a welcome distraction

 

[jongood]

It's not the propaganda machine; the infection rates are quoted by the various SAGE experts, many of whom are professors of virology or related disciplines; and at least one is a WHO Advisor, based in Scotland, who has argued consistently for the tried and tested method of lockdown to reduce the spread of infection; closure of borders to stop importing further cases; driving down infection rates to elimination levels if eradication proves impossible; and, at that level, use Track & Trace [Test & Protect in Scotland] to reach the contacts of infectees within 48 hours.

The latter relies on low infection rates to enable the Tracing to be manageable and quick. Then cautious reopening of the economy, whilst developing the vaccine that will enable COVID to be managed like other viruses via annual vaccinations and sensible precautions such as no handshaking, when a revised 'normal living' emerges. Professor Devi Sridhar, based at University of Edinburgh, tweets regularly [including when journalists refer to her as a male ... 'I'm a bloke again!'], and has appeared on Channel 4 News on many occasions. She has also written several articles for the Guardian, couched in layperson's terms. She is the youngest Rhodes Scholar, has been a Professor for years, but is still only 36 years old. Apart from all that talent and experience, she is also one of life's nice people to boot.

Steve

I'm taking it that you haven't seen the posts pondering whether they are manipulating the figures, some of these are weeks or even months behind and now also contain people who havent been tested. Doesnt it seem odd to you that there have been hardly any flu deaths this year?

Turning to actions Its a long way off proven that Lockdown is the only course of action open to us, Spain and France have had severe lockdowns much stricter than ours and has it put them ahead of the rest of europe? It doesnt seem so whereas Sweden has had rough patches but no lockdowns and has gone up and down just the same.

Our course has altered now (BIG)thanks to the vaccination campaign but there is still a will to keep us under control extending the questionable covid regulations and reinforced by the bill to stop people protesting. For me the site of Police arresting the women on Clapham Common due to Covid regs was basically locking sane people up to prevent them from being a danger to themselves - dangerous territory for any police force.

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[jongood]

But the NHS is a giant corporation, costing taxpayers billions - it needs to be better

'run' is the word missing from the end of your post. There are many many good people and some great people at the coal face but its been badly run for years, it doesnt really matter which party is in power NHS is now so big its almost its own party, the 'empire protecting party'?

 

[WESTY66]

In our department lots me included end of the holiday year March 31st not allowed any carry over. I'm having to take 4 day's in march then work an Extra 4 day's in April to take later in the year madness!

I thought the government was allowing up to 20 days to carry over into 2021/2022
Does this not apply to you?

Government to allow employees to carry over annual leave for two years

Employees who have not taken all of their statutory annual leave entitlement will be able to carry it over into the next two years.

employeebenefits.co.uk

 

[The Wino]

I thought the government was allowing up to 20 days to carry over into 2021/2022
Does this not apply to you?

Government to allow employees to carry over annual leave for two years

Employees who have not taken all of their statutory annual leave entitlement will be able to carry it over into the next two years.

employeebenefits.co.uk

I asked about carrying over but was told I couldn't!
I'll forward that to a colleague of mine who's decided to just lose what's left as hes reluctant to take time off.

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