Lorry ban in Germany and a wide track weave

[MR. FUSION]

Just been reminiscing about driving through Germany a week or so ago on a sunday.....no lorries. For those of you that dont know they are banned from autobahns (over 7.5 tons) for the entire day.

Sunday is a good day to drive apart from the evenings when the Germans return home or relocate back to work at warp factor 10! Later on a Sunday You could also easily get caught up in a long queue, as Germans are extracted from the 100 mph shunter they just did in the roadworks.

On a lot of autobahns they keep lorries on the inside lanes during the day, The only downside to that is they have made tramlines in many of the roads. My wide track FIAT chassis dislikes this and goes into an unstable weave even at 56 MPH. I did what I used to do avoid a tankslapper on my bike, gently backed off the gas and lightly held the steering wheel but let it ride out the instability. It was very difficult to get any kind of sweet spot on these tramlines, and a little dangerous particularly at speed. It could get you caught out

Anyway the lorry ban is something the UK should be considering, its much better all round.

 

[wizzer59]

Yep every day

 

[Gooney]

Move goods around the country by canal barges I say

 

[wizzer59]

Or train

 

[MR. FUSION]

Or train

I didn’t realise till I went to an aerial photo exhibition of 30's Scottish industrial sites, just how extensive the old branch line system was
Basically most factories or industrial estates of note had a branch line going to them, plus of course the intergrated post office system....Successive govts and The road lobby destroyed all that.

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[Cilfan]

Doubtless everyone probably knows this anyway, but the French have had a "No HGV (except refrigerated) Sunday ban" on their Autoroutes for years - I'm not sure, but it may apply to the Route Nationals too.

I don't know that we'll ever see it being adopted in the UK, we're too much of a workaholic * nation. Nice to dream though.

[Edit] * and money grabbing

 

[pappajohn]

Move goods around the country by canal barges I say

I wonder how long it would take a canal barge to overtake another.
A lot longer than it takes a truck to pass a truck which seems like a lifetime.

 

[MR. FUSION]

Doubtless everyone probably knows this anyway, but the French have had a "No HGV (except refrigerated) Sunday ban" on their Autoroutes for years - I'm not sure, but it may apply to the Route Nationals too.

I don't know that we'll ever see it being adopted in the UK, we're too much of a workaholic nation. Nice to dream though.

The Germans would no doubt consider themselves the hardest workers in Europe....but obviously adding in eastern european and German HGV drivers into the mad sunday evening rush was causing to much carnage.

 

[wizzer59]

I didn’t realise till I went to an aerial photo exhibition of 30's Scottish industrial sites, just how extensive the old branch line system was
Basically most factories or industrial estates of note had a branch line going to them, plus of course the intergrated post office system....Successive govts and The road lobby destroyed all that.

Yep I worked at a old Slaughterhouse years ago and that still had the sidings and loading bay for trains, the site is now a housing estate, often wonder if the big hole with hundreds of cattle bodies covered in quicklime because of foot and mouth are still under the houses

 

[Gooney]

I visited one of our mills in the States, raw materials (Polypropylene pellets) all came by rail into a siding, did away with the need for silo's for storage, just move another truck into the mill when required.

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[Cilfan]

Or train

May have been posted in jest, but in reality too slow and long-winded. Trains "MAY" be quicker over a long distance, but you've still got to get the goods to and from the depots. Until someone invents teleportation I'm afraid trucks (and cars) are here to stay because they're the most versatile means of getting goods (and people) from A to B.

 

[Cilfan]

I visited one of our mills in the States, raw materials (Polypropylene pellets) all came by rail into a siding, did away with the need for silo's for storage, just move another truck into the mill when required.

Somewhat different scenario though. USA, big country, plenty of space and a single type product, delivered in bulk to (presumably) a large plant. I'm sure the same applies to large plants in this country. But undoubtedly sizeable quantities of goods will be delivered by road in both cases.

 

[Gromett]

There is a fixed amount of product that needs to be shifted each week. If you ban lorries on 1 day in 7 then that traffic will just move to other days.

You will end up with worse congestion on the roads the rest of the week with a Sunday ban. Deliveries would take longer and costs would rise.

Just saying

 

[Snowbird]

The HGV ban is not just in Germany. The HGV ban is Europe wide from midday Saturday until midnight Sunday. The only HGVs allowed on any road other than the corridor through Belgium during these times are those carrying perishables. The service areas of Luxembourg are like a Le Mons start at midnight Sunday and to avoided by all other than the foolhardy.

 

[Glandwr]

Supermarkets not being open on Sundays in France and Germany make a difference.

Dick

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[vwalan]

just ban cars etc . let trucks use the roads . most car drivers could use trains or buses much easier then the goods folk. agter all most car drivers are the dangerous drivers racing around .
be far better if car drivers had a test every ten years as most seem to have forgotten rules etc and most cant see more than a few feet in front of them . and never if it doesnt suit them.

 

[mpdcymru]

Supermarkets not being open on Sundays in France and Germany make a difference.

Dick

And it was the relaxation of Sunday trading laws plus the shift to an "I want it and I want it now!!" society that has seen such a massive rise in vehicle (truck and van) movements in this country. That move will also rule out any possibility that we might ban trucks even for a few hours on a Sunday.

The other advantage of a Sunday ban on trucks is that at least almost all truck drivers get their weekly rest!

 

[Rob Turner]

I used to run to Italy with hanging lambs so the weekends were no problem and the best times to drive apart from the holidays. Know what you mean about the tramlines though. Could pretty much get to the M25 from Rugby without holding the wheel at one time

 

[GeriatricWanderer]

Yep I worked at a old Slaughterhouse years ago and that still had the sidings and loading bay for trains, the site is now a housing estate, often wonder if the big hole with hundreds of cattle bodies covered in quicklime because of foot and mouth are still under the houses

How strange! We had a local goods shunting yard (over the hump and wgons switched into the required siding) and the same happened there with cattle carcasses at the time of foot and mouth (not the recent outbreak).
Anyway, that yard and the liime pits beneath now display a large sign "........... every little helps"

You just never know what lies beneath your feet while you do your shopping.

 

[MR. FUSION]

just ban cars etc . let trucks use the roads . most car drivers could use trains or buses much easier then the goods folk. agter all most car drivers are the dangerous drivers racing around .
be far better if car drivers had a test every ten years as most seem to have forgotten rules etc and most cant see more than a few feet in front of them . and never if it doesnt suit them.

I agree with you ! The Germans are allowed to drive far to fast for an average persons driving ability. Its also uncomfortable for MH users as the vortex created by cars doing 150+ mph is less predictable than even a lorry one, plus a kind of sonic boom !!!!

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[gus-lopez]

Just been reminiscing about driving through Germany a week or so ago on a sunday.....no lorries. For those of you that dont know they are banned from autobahns (over 7.5 tons) for the entire day.

Sunday is a good day to drive apart from the evenings when the Germans return home or relocate back to work at warp factor 10! Later on a Sunday You could also easily get caught up in a long queue, as Germans are extracted from the 100 mph shunter they just did in the roadworks.

On a lot of autobahns they keep lorries on the inside lanes during the day, The only downside to that is they have made tramlines in many of the roads. My wide track FIAT chassis dislikes this and goes into an unstable weave even at 56 MPH. I did what I used to do avoid a tankslapper on my bike, gently backed off the gas and lightly held the steering wheel but let it ride out the instability. It was very difficult to get any kind of sweet spot on these tramlines, and a little dangerous particularly at speed. It could get you caught out

Anyway the lorry ban is something the UK should be considering, its much better all round.

Never had a problem with the Germans & roadworks . Always found that they are the ones who stick to the limit religiously. As opposed to the Begians, Dutch & French & the Uk ones who think they are going to get past with 16" of bike sticking out either side of their vehicle ! Admittedly the instant it stops they are gone, exactly the same as exiting villages .

just ban cars etc . let trucks use the roads . most car drivers could use trains or buses much easier then the goods folk. agter all most car drivers are the dangerous drivers racing around .
be far better if car drivers had a test every ten years as most seem to have forgotten rules etc and most cant see more than a few feet in front of them . and never if it doesnt suit them.

Exactly & ban the school run. If you can't get there walking then move closer or go to the local one as it's only a slum due to you allowing it to get that way.

I agree with you ! The Germans are allowed to drive far to fast for an average persons driving ability. Its also uncomfortable for MH users as the vortex created by cars doing 150+ mph is less predictable than even a lorry one, plus a kind of sonic boom !!!!

You aren't paying attention to the mirrors if they are coming up on you & catching you out at high speed.
Whys a lorry overtaking you ? That's what annoys them as in most areas France/Germany they are banned from overtaking cars so don't want to be following someone who is doing less than there limiter.
That's also why I've noticed recently that they have modified many signs with pictures of other vehicles they aren't supposed to overtake as they were using the "it's not a car" defence.

 

[MR. FUSION]

Never had a problem with the Germans & roadworks . Always found that they are the ones who stick to the limit religiously. As opposed to the Begians, Dutch & French & the Uk ones who think they are going to get past with 16" of bike sticking out either side of their vehicle ! Admittedly the instant it stops they are gone, exactly the same as exiting villages .



Exactly & ban the school run. If you can't get there walking then move closer or go to the local one as it's only a slum due to you allowing it to get that way.


You aren't paying attention to the mirrors if they are coming up on you & catching you out at high speed.
Whys a lorry overtaking you ? That's what annoys them as in most areas France/Germany they are banned from overtaking cars so don't want to be following someone who is doing less than there limiter.
That's also why I've noticed recently that they have modified many signs with pictures of other vehicles they aren't supposed to overtake as they were using the "it's not a car" defence.

I take your point Mr Lopez on the speed, but I am driving to my comfort limit in the MH not their speed limiter
But seriously these cars are going so fast its impossible to see every one!!

 

[Cilfan]

I'm with Campa Cola on this one. My driving experience in Germany is largely based upon when I was a dreaded "White Van Man" - didn't want to drive trucks there, too much red tape and hassle. Of all the tens of thousands of miles I've driven all over Europe the German autobahns have to be the least pleasurable. Largely 2 lane, you're closing on something you want to overtake, check your mirrors, indicate, re-check your mirrors and what was a far distant speck is now barrelling down on you at an incredible rate of knots. Also, getting stuck in a line of trucks on a busy stretch is fatal, no bugger will let you out to overtake. The majority of their exits (ausfahts) seem to be hairpins and - certainly up until 6 years ago - closing down roads to single lane / contraflow for miles on end seemed to be a national pastime.

 

[MR. FUSION]

I'm with Campa Cola on this one. My driving experience in Germany is largely based upon when I was a dreaded "White Van Man" - didn't want to drive trucks there, too much red tape and hassle. Of all the tens of thousands of miles I've driven all over Europe the German autobahns have to be the least pleasurable. Largely 2 lane, you're closing on something you want to overtake, check your mirrors, indicate, re-check your mirrors and what was a far distant speck is now barrelling down on you at an incredible rate of knots. Also, getting stuck in a line of trucks on a busy stretch is fatal, no bugger will let you out to overtake. The majority of their exits (ausfahts) seem to be hairpins and - certainly up until 6 years ago - closing down roads to single lane / contraflow for miles on end seemed to be a national pastime.

Same today, loads and loads of road works, narrow lanes are on the left usually 2.1 meters, so some may have to watch out you dont get funelled down there

 

[gus-lopez]

This is because they are upgrading most of the heavy trafficked autobahns to 4 lanes & have been since at least 2011.

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[Ivory55]

Exactly & ban the school run. If you can't get there walking then move closer or go to the local one as it's only a slum due to you allowing it to get that way.
Trouble is if you live in rural areas that might be your local school so driving is the only option

 

[rrusty]

This is because they are upgrading most of the heavy trafficked autobahns to 4 lanes & have been since at least 2011.

Yes been all over central Germany and Bavaria for 5 weeks and just about every motorway has got miles of roadworks.

 

[Cilfan]

This is because they are upgrading most of the heavy trafficked autobahns to 4 lanes & have been since at least 2011.

If they are then good for them. What I recall seeing certainly didn't look like road widening of any significance though.

 

[MR. FUSION]

Yes been all over central Germany and Bavaria for 5 weeks and just about every motorway has got miles of roadworks.

Google maps did a good job for me, avoiding a nearly 2 hour delay by going on an shortish parallel route. Well done 3 as well live map data in nearly all of europe, yay!

 

[simsy56]

Germany has had the hgv ban for years, even when I was driving there in the 70s and 80s. hgv bans on autobahns sunday and bank holidays unless livestock or perishables.

Craig

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