Why the love of the Fiat Ducato?

[jessthedog]

As a newbie to the site, I'm interested in why the majority of motorhome manufacturers go for the Fiat Ducato.
If I was going to buy a car, no disrespect to fiat car owners, a Fiat would be would be way down on my list. ( I do like the look of the little 500 though!)
The fiat Ducato dosen't even come in the top 10 of vans sales in the UK.
In Europe, its sister company IVECO, gets to No4 for truck sales in Europe.
The companies who make comparable chassis, The Transit van is the most popular van in the uk, followed by Mercedes, Volkswagen, Renault then Peugeot.
What is it, that makes the Fiat Ducato an ideal motorhome van, but according the vast majority of businesses in Europe who buy vans, no good for them?

 

[mercianman]

I think fiat make a specific camper chassis. This article may help:http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/advice/30429-know-your-base-vehicles

 

[TheBig1]

and the wholesale cost of ducato/boxer per thousand

 

[jessthedog]

I think fiat make a specific camper chassis. This article may help:http://www.practicalmotorhome.com/advice/30429-know-your-base-vehicles

Thanks Mercianman,
Just read that. It seems that a lot of them don't use this special chassis and a lot use the AL-Ko chassis.
So why not use say the Volkswagen crafter with the AL-KO chassis, or Transit etc etc.

 

[rangi]

The new Transits get nicked, very easily.

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[mercianman]

Thanks Mercianman,
Just read that. It seems that a lot of them don't use this special chassis and a lot use the AL-Ko chassis.
So why not use say the Volkswagen crafter with the AL-KO chassis, or Transit etc etc.

I guess it's the standard option or the cheapest option. We have a ducato and it's fine. We preferred it to a transit camper.

 

[Larrynwin]

I also would probably not buy a fiat car but find the fiat base vehicle in my Hymer performs extremely well so no complaints.
Mercedes and VW are superior for some but paying for a name is not always best policy, reliability and performance should also be a consideration and other than the reversing judder from the past I think Fiat are more than adequate.

 

[Forestboy]

Having owned a Fiat based van now for over 5 years and 70000 ish miles I honestly can't fault it. Despite my reservations before buying its been superb and will easily do another 70000.
My preference would be Iveco but I wouldn't touch a Mercedes with a barge pole Fiat is far superior in my opinion.

 

[DBK]

A factor for PVCs is the Fiat is a lot easier to convert I believe taking into account size, shape and, compared to the Merc, front wheel drive. But I suspect cost is an over-riding factor too.

 

[jessthedog]

and the wholesale cost of ducato/boxer per thousand

Thanks the big1,
So its its down to cost? The Fiat is cheaper than the rest.

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[jessthedog]

The new Transits get nicked, very easily.

Thanks Rangitra,
I've read that there is a problem with that. But there was also a problem with BMW cars and others too.
Are they not nicking the Fiats?

 

[jessthedog]

I guess it's the standard option or the cheapest option. We have a ducato and it's fine. We preferred it to a transit camper.

Hi Mercianman,
Did you own a Transit home?

 

[rangi]

Thanks Rangitra,
I've read that there is a problem with that. But there was also a problem with BMW cars and others too.
Are they not nicking the Fiats?

Of course they are nicking Fiats, but it seems New Trannies are easier, let's face it the technology is available, the buggers can nick almost anything, but lucky for us Fiat owners, trannies are the go at the moment, the in Nickee !

 

[jessthedog]

I also would probably not buy a fiat car but find the fiat base vehicle in my Hymer performs extremely well so no complaints.
Mercedes and VW are superior for some but paying for a name is not always best policy, reliability and performance should also be a consideration and other than the reversing judder from the past I think Fiat are more than adequate.

Thanks Larrynwin,
That really is my point. You have a Hymer with the fiat base and it performs well, but really you don't have much of a choice. There are some models of Hymer which have a Mercedes option, but it comes at a price. I've seen on a German website, that a transit based Hymer is cheaper than the Fiat based model, that wouldn't happen with a normal van. If you were buying a van, would you choose a Fiat?
The businesses around Europe are not choosing the Fiat Ducato. If it is such a great van than why not?

 

[jessthedog]

Of course they are nicking Fiats, but it seems New Trannies are easier, let's face it the technology is available, the buggers can nick almost anything, but lucky for us Fiat owners, trannies are the go at the moment, the in Nickee !

Thanks,
I've sat in the new Transit and they seem a nice van. Haven't driven one, but I owned one a good few years ago and thought it was a great van, but then again there didn't seem to be a lot of choice in the 80's

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[Larrynwin]

Thanks Larrynwin,
That really is my point. You have a Hymer with the fiat base and it performs well, but really you don't have much of a choice. There are some models of Hymer which have a Mercedes option, but it comes at a price. I've seen on a German website, that a transit based Hymer is cheaper than the Fiat based model, that wouldn't happen with a normal van. If you were buying a van, would you choose a Fiat?
The businesses around Europe are not choosing the Fiat Ducato. If it is such a great van than why not?

I cannot quote from fleet or individual van buying but as far as cars go I do not believe in paying extra for a name.
If I were buying a van it would probably be a Transit, my experience of Ford has always been good.
With the Hymer I had no choice , it was new on the forecourt with various tempt me extras and I struck a deal and no regrets so far.
Perhaps Fiat don't offer the best deals for fleet van purchase.

 

[jessthedog]

Having owned a Fiat based van now for over 5 years and 70000 ish miles I honestly can't fault it. Despite my reservations before buying its been superb and will easily do another 70000.
My preference would be Iveco but I wouldn't touch a Mercedes with a barge pole Fiat is far superior in my opinion.

Thanks Forestboy,
Why wouldn't you touch a Mercedes with a barge pole? If you were buying 2 new identical Motorhomes for the same price, you would buy the fiat based over the Merc?
If soo,what would be your reasons?
Thanks

 

[rangi]

It is like the old Talbot, a good solid no frills donkey mated with a good solid chassis, It has its FUBARs , every vehicle does, the Sump , the Fifth gear, the reversing up hill judder, we learn to live with it.
It's a good solid dependable workhorse!

 

[jessthedog]

A factor for PVCs is the Fiat is a lot easier to convert I believe taking into account size, shape and, compared to the Merc, front wheel drive. But I suspect cost is an over-riding factor too.

Thanks DBK,
The scenic in me, is that it is all down to cost. If the Fiat Ducato was superior to all the rest, wouldn't the fleet buyers of Europe be buying them? The problem seems to be choice. If the majority of manufacturers use the Fiat, then unless you buy a very expensive motorhome, it will have to be that.

 

[mjltigger]

All I know is that I have had a Renault car before and would never ever buy another but our Renault van is brilliant. Drives lovely (for a van) and (touch wood) no serious base vehicle issues.

Sticking to a PVC though and demanding a trnaverse rear bed, we would be better off with the Citroen or Fiat offering...

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[jessthedog]

It is like the old Talbot, a good solid no frills donkey mated with a good solid chassis, It has its FUBARs , every vehicle does, the Sump , the Fifth gear, the reversing up hill judder, we learn to live with it.
It's a good solid dependable workhorse!

Thanks Rangitira,
The transit has been all of that for donkeys years, otherwise it wouldn't be the best selling van. Being a newbie to the Motorhome world (Im haven't bought one yet!), I'm surprised that the Fiat Ducato has become the van to use. Maybe I'm biased towards Mercedes, Volkswagen, Ford etc, because that is what the majority of vans are in the UK.
I know diddly about Motorhomes, that's why I joined this site. Thanks

 

[jessthedog]

All I know is that I have had a Renault car before and would never ever buy another but our Renault van is brilliant. Drives lovely (for a van) and (touch wood) no serious base vehicle issues.

Sticking to a PVC though and demanding a trnaverse rear bed, we would be better off with the Citroen or Fiat offering...

Thanks mjltigger,
I wouldn't but a Renault either! ha ha.

 

[mercianman]

Hi Mercianman,
Did you own a Transit home?

No we hired and test drove a few and preferred the fiat cab. I also remember reading about transit thefts using obd ports.

 

[jessthedog]

I cannot quote from fleet or individual van buying but as far as cars go I do not believe in paying extra for a name.
If I were buying a van it would probably be a Transit, my experience of Ford has always been good.
With the Hymer I had no choice , it was new on the forecourt with various tempt me extras and I struck a deal and no regrets so far.
Perhaps Fiat don't offer the best deals for fleet van purchase.

Thanks,
My sentiments as well. Are we programmed to think that the German vehicles are superior. I've owned a lot of Ford cars, a transit, an Audi and even a Korean Hyundai. My Favourite was a Ford focus C max, loved that car.
The Hymer has a very good name for quality etc, so if they use the Fiat, it must be ok.
cheers

 

[mitzimad]

fiats activly supported the motor home manufacturers as a marketing strategy and became the base of choice things like the handbrake on the outside square sides when all the other vans were tapering and willing to supply chasis for a class and cab only for coachbuilts

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[Forestboy]

Thanks Forestboy,
Why wouldn't you touch a Mercedes with a barge pole? If you were buying 2 new identical Motorhomes for the same price, you would buy the fiat based over the Merc?
If soo,what would be your reasons?
Thanks

If it was pre 2005 I'd buy the Merc but anything later sorry but it'd be Fiat. Owned 7 new Mercs in my life and up to 2005 they were superb but from 2005 things have gone from bad to worse and Merc quality no longer exists. In my opinion you pay extra for a very ordinary vehicle with dreadful service.
Fully expect the Merc owners to dispute this but that's my personal experience.

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

Also there are Peugeot and Citroen base vehicles but Fiat make a big thing about making their chassis cabs SPECIFICALLY for the motorhome market and spec them quite well as a standard cab but offer the upgrade as well.
Also they advertise the fact that their Fiat Professional workshops are very plentiful all over Europe and are very used to dealing with motorhome customers. They even do a motorhome specific warranty that's better than the standard van warranty.
Although Ford make a good base vehicle ( but easily stolen), their dealers are poor when compared with other brands.
Mercedes are expensive to start with (and look after) and unlike their cars or the Fiat are not easy to get them looking plush. To me they always look exactly like the van they started as. The Transit is not so bad as they do some very high spec vans anyway.

 

[TheBig1]

Lets face it. ALL the various marques have issues, some real some perceived
Ford are ridiculously easy to steal and have mechanical issues like weak engines
Renault are notorious for electrical issues, same van as the Nissan
Mercedes are spectacularly badly built with rust built in at the factory
Fiat and Peugeot are the same van with different engines. some being the rubbish built by Ford
Iveco build agricultural feeling vans but have superb engines also found in the 3litre Fiat

in my opinion based on experience the Fiat ducato with the 3litre Iveco engine is ideal

really big fleets do choose fiat and iveco and make strong workhorses that do millions of miles on basic servicing

 

[pyro]

A question I asked myself. My apologies if I duplicate anyone else's comments.

The engine used on the Ducato is (I am told) exactly the same as that used in the Citroën Jumper, the Peugeot Boxer and the Ram ProMaster, jointly developed under the Sevel collaboration. According to wiki, it is used as the base for two thirds of the motorhomes sold in Europe. (I am unsure if Iveco use the same engine. but I think they are a Fiat brand)

This means you can get service and spares practically anywhere for the Ducato, and actually at pretty fair prices. It is a commercial grade engine with an acceptable environmental profile and a respectable life expectancy, and is very well respected by commercial users and ambulance fleet operators.

Fiat manufacture many makes of vehicles, including (obviously) their own Fiat marque, Chrysler, Jeep, Maserati, Alpha Romeo, Dodge (including Ram) and Lancia.

Coming from an era where Fiat passenger cars were frankly crap, I have to concede that they now have a pretty impressive stable. I have driven a 127 in my time and a recent Punto. and there is no comparison. Fiat deserve their market prominence from my experiences with my own 130 Euro 5+

 

[pappajohn]

So why not use say the Volkswagen crafter with the AL-KO chassis, or Transit etc etc.

In a word.....cost.

A ducato will always be cheaper than a VW or transit