You wonder what happened to the British motorcycle industry. (1 Viewer)

[franknjan]

Article regarding (in the main) the front brake development on a BSA Lightning.
Also read the comments from a board meeting. I can honestly say that of my 5 bikes, only 1 is electric start.

 

[pappajohn]

In 1965(?) Honda developed a 6 cylinder 250cc race bike and a 2 cylinder 50cc race bike...... Can you imagine the Smallheath engineers trying to make that after a lifetime of vertical single and twin cylinder bikes.
The British bike industry went tits up because they preferred 'tried & tested' to future innovations.

 

[John Barrett]

The single leading shoe front brake on my new (1967) 650cc Trophy was absolute rubbish. I converted it myself to twin leading shoe!

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[68c]

Norton Commando front disc pads were not pinned in place, just had a tab to stop the pad rotating. Worked well in comparison to the earlier Norton twin leading shoe brake and suffered less from brake fade. Of course they used a chrome plated iron disc, the chrome looked good in the showroom but soon wore through leaving you with a rusty disc. The best part of the disc brake design was the automatic brake wear alert device. The thickness of the brake pad backing was the the same as the gap between the caliper and the disc, pad wears out- flies out from the caliper and bounces down the road. Quickly pumping the brake lever brings the piston in contact with the disc so the other pad can try to slow you down. If you are lucky you will find the lost pad and read its part number as a spare.
That is just the front disc problem.
If you wish I can also advise on cracking oil tank dumping all oil on to rear tyre, failing advance retard unit leading to fractured exhaust pipe, broken centre stand, side stand bolt snapping, rear indicator bracket snapping (on ride home from picking up brand new bike), fuel dripping down when tickling carbs washing away crankcase sealant, main bearings failing at 3,000miles, constant rattling from exhaust nut tab washers, the clever 12v power take off corroding as permanently live leading to flat battery..........................
Daft thing is I still have the bike, now in the shed suffering its third, fourth? Great British Rebuild. Seems to be taking a while as my Moto Guzzi V11 Le Mans Rosso Corsa distracts me while searching for the mix of AF, Whitworth, BA spanners needed for the Norton.

 

[John Barrett]

Your Norton workers must have moved from Meriden just after I bought my Triumph, which fell to pieces around me! The rear number plate and lamp fell off after just five days, and the dealer wouldn't replace them. Said I should have tightened the nuts myself. The nine stud head blew the gasket around the ninth stud, the exhaust collars came loose and stripped the threads in the head, the clutch housing cracked in half, it guzzled oil, and the main bearings failed after just one year! When the Honda 450 appeared on the scene I predicted the death of the British bike industry, and I was proved correct!

 

[Nasher]

In 1963 Honda built a 90cc motorcycle and named it the "Honda C200"

The rationale was that it was faster than the 200cc Triumph Tiger Cub

It was also a lot more reliable!

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[Raul]

Can anyone explain why Honda NR has oval pistons? Never understood the science and reason behind it.

 

[TheTwoOfUs]

There are probably more technical explanations like rates of expansion but one I read was that they could get the cylinders closer together for a given volume and therefore make a narrower engine unit.

 

[LesW]

There are probably more technical explanations like rates of expansion but one I read was that they could get the cylinders closer together for a given volume and therefore make a narrower engine unit.

They could also get more valves in the cylinder head..

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[Raul]

They are 16 valves I believe. The explanation of a narrow motor makes sense. But they did that with vfr’s. I know I had one. A nice narrow v four, and beautiful sound.

 

[Stealaway]

Can anyone explain why Honda NR has oval pistons? Never understood the science and reason behind it.

They needed a something special to compete with the two stroke engines that had taken over GP racing in the 1970. They were far more powerful than any four stroke.
The 500cc class was limited to only four cylinder's and Honda being predominantly a four stroke engine company needed a revolutionary four stroke engine design. Their idea was to have a V8 engine without the separated cylinders - a V4 oblong!. It didn't work and they eventually had to build a two stoke but even then they had to be different to the rest and built a three cylinder engine.

 

[Spriddler]

This is a superb account by Bert Hopwood, senior designer with all the major Brit marques.

I've produced many cartoons for my monthly bike club magazine. Unsurprisingly the dodgy Brit front brakes feature quite often.

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[Stealaway]

The British bike industry went tits up because they preferred 'tried & tested' to future innovations.

The British motorcycle industry had ruled he world and saw no reason to change any thing.
They hardly spent any money on development mainly because they could sell everything they could make
Then came the Japanese with new ideas, cheap labour and massive post war redevelopments.
We didn't stand a chance - before it was too late.

 

[Wikky]

I had a 2 stroke BSA Bantam 175cc for a while then got a Yamaha yds6 250cc 2 stroke.....what a difference. Revvy, punchy engine with blistering acceleration. Even though it had f and r drum brakes they were far better than the BSA.

 

[franknjan]

Here's another howler of a quote.

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[Stealaway]

In 1963 Honda built a 90cc motorcycle

I was once told that the Honda 50cc had the same size main bearings as the BSA 500cc Gold Star.
Its not surprising that they ran forever and out sold every other motor bike in the world - and still do.

 

[Silver-Fox]

In 1965(?) Honda developed a 6 cylinder 250cc race bike and a 2 cylinder 50cc race bike...... Can you imagine the Smallheath engineers trying to make that after a lifetime of vertical single and twin cylinder bikes.
The British bike industry went tits up because they preferred 'tried & tested' to future innovations.

And vertical split casings allowing oil to pee out due to worn out machinery

 

[Stealaway]

And vertical split casings allowing oil to pee out due to worn out machinery

Then the Japanese developed the horizontally split engine
It was so simple - just like all the best ideas.

Suzuki GT 550 three cylinder two stroke engine bottom end. Crankshaft and gearbox

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[Nasher]

Here's another howler of a quote. View attachment 456587

Quote 118 - I was at the Isle of Man TT in 1976, totally gutted for John after a great ride

 

[franknjan]

This must of been the luckiest finish in a TT.

 

[Littlewheels]

Anyone and more living within reach of Sherbern in Elmet will know of Squires and in the day when Japanese bikes started appearing they were looked on with disdain, it’s amazing what a difference a decades or few can do to attitude.

What's On - Squires Cafe

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[Stealaway]

This must of been the luckiest finish in a TT. View attachment 456616

That's just reminded me of seeing a new marshal picking up a broken chain without gloves.
It must have been heavy because he didn't hold it for long.

 

[Nasher]

This must of been the luckiest finish in a TT. View attachment 456616

Another was Mike Hailwood's triumphant return in 1978, the engine went pop just over the finish line

 

[The Coops]

It was not just the Brits I had a Morini 350 sport that did six gearboxes in 1000 miles, turns out mismatched crankcases so someone somewhere had the same problem with the other halfs and following that( and how I wish I had kept it) a Lavaerda SF2 which between Fleetwood and Blackburn vibrated almost every bolt loose or off or baffles out of the exhaust and blew every bulb! As for the electrics"! another story altogether but they didn't half handle well!

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[Nasher]

Plus we mustn't forget, when it comes to electrics, we had:

Joe Lucas - Prince of Darkness
​

I remember drooling over MV Augusta's in the 70's and then changing my mind as they had Lucas dip switches

And again in the late 90's I considered spending thirteen grand on the new MV Augusta - beautiful looking bike
Threw my leg over it, brought it upright and the side flicked up, MV (& the Ducati's at the time) didn't trust their electrics so had a spring loaded side stand - I didn't buy one

 

[John Barrett]

And vertical split casings allowing oil to pee out due to worn out machinery

That's why a certain British bike was called the 'Royal Oilfield'...

 

[Clipgate]

Like many here not a motorcycle enthusiast, merely a means of transport to work. Bantam 175 possibly did a week without breaking down, then a Tiger Cub not too bad but crude. The 350 BSA awful ride and leaked oil like a calendar.
Many British bikes over 5 or six years, the a Honda 90, no oil leaks quiet etc. Owned for five years. Not a problem at all.
Years later out of rose coloured glasses purchased a Meridian T140. After a Laverda Jota.
What can I say, sold it after a year and total disappointment.
I regret to say this none development went through the whole of the UK motor industry.
It's far to late now to change, with countries in Asia in particular putting in major investments to there own industries, being just a small part of the equation.
British named vehicles now owned by companies who invest in people and technology dominating the market.
Even our premium brands owned by either external investors or companies.
Goodness knows what the ultimate outcome will be.

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[Silver-Fox]

They are 16 valves I believe. The explanation of a narrow motor makes sense. But they did that with vfr’s. I know I had one. A nice narrow v four, and beautiful sound.

Couldnt agree more.

Trouble was my err large frame didn’t fit well with the small 400 bike frame

 

[Silver-Fox]

Bantam 175 possibly did a week without breaking down,

I had a Bantam when I was 17.

Never did it break down or had an issue with it.
Boy did it get abused as well

 

[68c]

Can anyone explain why Honda NR has oval pistons? Never understood the science and reason behind it.

It was an odd idea where a single very oval piston had two conrods with, from memory, eight valves per cylinder. It was a way of gettong round one of the racing rules regarding how many pistons a two or four stroke engine could have. Not really useful on the road as the bizarre piston ring life was short.

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