What's draining my batteries?

[DMC65]

Not used the MH in a few weeks, maybe a month. Went to get a couple of things out of it last week and had to manually open the door as both leisure and van battery were flat.
Charged both up and all seemed ok. Went to put some stuff in yesterday and flat again, I can't see anything on. Anyone any ideas?

 

[Bill_OR]

tracker, alarm system, radio etc - or the batteries might just have died!

 

[Clarky]

Cab radios/media centres are notorious for draining batteries.

 

[Landy Andy]

Strange that they are both flat. Due to that I would be looking at something that is associated with both systems.

Charger, solar, that sort of thing.

What have you got installed.

 

[movan]

Hab radio was the problem with mine, the first time it happened. It looks like it's off but it is actually on stand by.

Last time it was something.. I think called solarnoid (?).

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[DMC65]

Thanks for the replies. I'm currently charging again and will go over everything once charged. I couldn't understand why both would discharge though.

 

[DMC65]

I think it may get be the cd/radio. Red standby light was on so I've just taken the facia off completely and I'll check to see if that works.

 

[the1andonly]

If you really want to know what is happening you need to get busy with a DC clamp meter.

 

[DMC65]

I'm now revisiting this problem to try and solve after a family bereavement.
I'm almost certain the leisure battery is goosed.
I've charged using the hook up and had it at 13.4 only for it to drop to 10.3 within 2 days. Tested with the hookup on and it is showing around 14.4 and with the engine on and showing roughly the same. So I assume it's taking a charge ok but not holding it.
The engine battery is holding up after a charge but if left too long it seems to drain after the leisure battery drains. That's what I can't get my head round.
Is it safe to assume the leisure battery is done? To be honest I'd rather buy a AGM A class anyway as it's more suited to us than the wet cell C class.

 

[PhilandMena]

I'm now revisiting this problem to try and solve after a family bereavement.
I'm almost certain the leisure battery is goosed.
I've charged using the hook up and had it at 13.4 only for it to drop to 10.3 within 2 days. Tested with the hookup on and it is showing around 14.4 and with the engine on and showing roughly the same. So I assume it's taking a charge ok but not holding it.
The engine battery is holding up after a charge but if left too long it seems to drain after the leisure battery drains. That's what I can't get my head round.
Is it safe to assume the leisure battery is done? To be honest I'd rather buy a AGM A class anyway as it's more suited to us than the wet cell C class.

Well at least you know your alternator and charger are working. It would take around 36hrs or even longer to fully charge a flat battery and simply replacing the battery will not change the cause of your problem as you may well end up in the same situation again if you do nothing else.
Time for you to consider getting some solar panels installed IMO. The more the merrier. As for a new battery, look at the pure carbon AGM batteries and make sure your charger can manage the charging profile required. Same with your Solar Panel regulator if you get splar installed.

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[DMC65]

Thanks for the reply. I have no idea how old the battery is as we only bought the MH this year and I'm almost certain the drain was from the radio which I have removed the fascia when not in use. I think it's probably been damaged by being discharged completely. Plus I'm useless with electrics.
Which brings me on to my next question. How do I know if my charger can manage the charging profile.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Thanks for the reply. I have no idea how old the battery is as we only bought the MH this year and I'm almost certain the drain was from the radio which I have removed the fascia when not in use. I think it's probably been damaged by being discharged completely. Plus I'm useless with electrics.
Which brings me on to my next question. How do I know if my charger can manage the charging profile.

It says "see manual for other types"

I'd go with a gel battery myself, more useable discharge range and long life

 

[GeoffnDee]

If your Motorhome is Fiat / Peugeot based it is not unusual for the engine battery to loose its charge over a few weeks period, if not driven or charged, due to the very small but constant power drain from the van electronics (ECU etc), The leisure battery going flat should not effect the starter battery or drain it and if you are sure nothing is being left on, as it should not drop that much ,you could disconnect the leisure battery, after it is charged again, to confirm if it is still going down or not with nothing connected when you reconnect it after a couple of days. { It does look like it could be a faulty leisure battery with a duff cell though)
If you do not have a manual for that battery charger and its battery type information it can be downloaded from the Sargent Electrical website.

 

[Guigsy]

Even with everything off, my hab battery has 0.3A of drain. That'll drain even a healthy battery in about a week. It was only a year old when we got it, but I'm pretty sure the battery has been goosed already. It seems to drop voltage very quickly with very little load on it. I've recently added solar, so it is being supported at the moment, but the damage has already been done.

 

[PhilandMena]

I too have the same charger and here is the manual for it.

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[DMC65]

This place is invaluable. Thanks to everyone

 

[Richard n Ann]

Even with everything off, my hab battery has 0.3A of drain. That'll drain even a healthy battery in about a week. It was only a year old when we got it, but I'm pretty sure the battery has been goosed already. It seems to drop voltage very quickly with very little load on it. I've recently added solar, so it is being supported at the moment, but the damage has already been done.

I wouldn't put up with that, our battery only has a 0.002a drain with the main switch off.

I think later vans have the heating controller powered up all the time so it can run the fan to cool off even if the main switch is off.

 

[Guigsy]

I wouldn't put up with that, our battery only has a 0.002a drain with the main switch off.

I think later vans have the heating controller powered up all the time so it can run the fan to cool off even if the main switch is off.

I think Geist/LMC did an experiment with Truma. There are almost no fuses. Everything uses modules and provides data back to the Truma app. I can see voltages, charge levels, water levels, etc. through the Truma app. But it means there's always a drain on the battery. Maybe it goes to sleep eventually, but after an hour, it's still pulling juice.

 

[Lenny HB]

Is it safe to assume the leisure battery is done? To be honest I'd rather buy a AGM A class anyway as it's more suited to us than the wet cell C class.

Yep, sounds like your leisure battery is goosed.
I wouldn't fit an AGM they are about the worst choice for leisure use.
You mention A Class battery if you are looking at the NCC list that is total bollocks arrived at by figures supplied by the manufacturers no actual testing done.

 

[DMC65]

Yep, sounds like your leisure battery is goosed.
I wouldn't fit an AGM they are about the worst choice for leisure use.
You mention A Class battery if you are looking at the NCC list that is total bollocks arrived at by figures supplied by the manufacturers no actual testing done.

Now I'm back to being confused. I thought AGM batteries were better for leisure use.

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[Lenny HB]

Now I'm back to being confused. I thought AGM batteries were better for leisure use.

They are very unpredictable some people have had a reasonable life out of them but a lot like me they have not lasted much more than a year.
Current van came with an AGM, I replaced it straight away with 3 Gels as we rely on our batteries.

 

[PhilandMena]

Now I'm back to being confused. I thought AGM batteries were better for leisure use.

There has been some poor reports about AGM batteries when used as a Leisure battery and some members on here as you will now be aware of. have no confidence in them what-so-ever. However, there is now a new (ish!) dedicated AGM leisure/deep cycle battery made from pure lead carbon that is reported to out perform the previous types of AGM batteries and a number of manufacturers are now producing them. If you look at the technical details of this 100 AH battery, (similar to other pure carbon lead AGM batteries) you can see it is very impressive. Time will show no doubt just how good they really are. I intend to fit these on my next battery change.

12v 100AH Leoch Pure AGM Lead Carbon PLH+ C100 Deep Cycle Leisure Battery NCC Class A - Alpha Batteries

12V 100Ah Ultra Deep Cycle battery for multiple applications – from Leoch’s Pure Lead Carbon series. Features • Pure Lead […]

www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

 

[Vipar]

I had a drain on my cab battery. I pulled the fuse for the radio and the drain stopped. Thereby pointing me to the culprit. Good luck

 

[Guigsy]

There has been some poor reports about AGM batteries when used as a Leisure battery and some members on here as you will now be aware of. have no confidence in them what-so-ever. However, there is now a new (ish!) dedicated AGM leisure/deep cycle battery made from pure lead carbon that is reported to out perform the previous types of AGM batteries and a number of manufacturers are now producing them. If you look at the technical details of this 100 AH battery, (similar to other pure carbon lead AGM batteries) you can see it is very impressive. Time will show no doubt just how good they really are. I intend to fit these on my next battery change.

12v 100AH Leoch Pure AGM Lead Carbon PLH+ C100 Deep Cycle Leisure Battery NCC Class A - Alpha Batteries

12V 100Ah Ultra Deep Cycle battery for multiple applications – from Leoch’s Pure Lead Carbon series. Features • Pure Lead […]

www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

What's the advantage over LiFePo4 batteries? Like standard lead-acids, you don't want to discharge them too deeply. It looks like a 100Ah lead-carbon has about the same working capacity as a 60Ah lithium, at which point the costs are similar. They don't charge and discharge as fast as lithiums. And like lithiums, you can't charge them below 0C.

 

[Richard n Ann]

There has been some poor reports about AGM batteries when used as a Leisure battery and some members on here as you will now be aware of. have no confidence in them what-so-ever. However, there is now a new (ish!) dedicated AGM leisure/deep cycle battery made from pure lead carbon that is reported to out perform the previous types of AGM batteries and a number of manufacturers are now producing them. If you look at the technical details of this 100 AH battery, (similar to other pure carbon lead AGM batteries) you can see it is very impressive. Time will show no doubt just how good they really are. I intend to fit these on my next battery change.

12v 100AH Leoch Pure AGM Lead Carbon PLH+ C100 Deep Cycle Leisure Battery NCC Class A - Alpha Batteries

12V 100Ah Ultra Deep Cycle battery for multiple applications – from Leoch’s Pure Lead Carbon series. Features • Pure Lead […]

www.alpha-batteries.co.uk

What's the maximum recommended discharge depth?

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[PhilandMena]

What's the advantage over LiFePo4 batteries?

They are significantly cheaper ! Also, if I have read the product information correctly they can be charged up to -40c

 

[PhilandMena]

What's the maximum recommended discharge depth?

I don't know ! However, looking at the Cycle Life Vs Discharge Chart in the product information chart, over 1000 cycles @70 % discharge.

 

[Guigsy]

They are significantly cheaper ! Also, if I have read the product information correctly they can be charged up to -40c

A 60Ah LiFePO4 battery will be about the same effective capacity. They are about £350, so lead-carbon are cheaper, but that margin is being eroded very quickly. And the Lithium is smaller and lighter and can be run harder.

The info sheet says discharge down to -40C. Charge is above 0C. So similar limitations to lithiums.

Do you need a specific charger profile for lead-carbon?

 

[Richard n Ann]

The 80ah Exide gels are down to £158 now at Tayna

 

[PhilandMena]

A 60Ah LiFePO4 battery will be about the same effective capacity. They are about £350, so lead-carbon are cheaper, but that margin is being eroded very quickly. And the Lithium is smaller and lighter and can be run harder.

The info sheet says discharge down to -40C. Charge is above 0C. So similar limitations to lithiums.

Do you need a specific charger profile for lead-carbon?

I stand corrected ! Old man eyes! It does say charge down to 0. deg. (I wonder how many motorhome battery storage locations get down to zero degrees in winter ?).
I have no idea how a LifePO4 60 AH will perform and do accept lithium batteries out perform pure lead carbon batteries (and I never suggested anything otherwise, just pointing out to the OP of a new type of AGM deep cycle batteries available in the market place, that theu may want to consider). As for the charging profile, this particular pure lead battery should be fine with most standard lead acid battery chargers. Again the detail is there to be seen in the product description. I still intend to purchase them and at £240.0 each they appear to be a good buy.