What premium to pay for premium brands (1 Viewer)

[Lucky]

Premium brand motorhomes cost more than budget brands, naturally. Dethleffs cost more than Sunlight, Rapido cost more than Itineo, Hymer cost more... and so on. Some folk see value in premium brands, others don't.

How do we objectively measure quality and allocate it a value? A glance at price lists shows us premium sells for more, but how much more is it worth paying for something we cannot quantify?

If you bought a premium brand, how did you determine what precisely was better about it compared with its budget alternative and how much extra you thought it worth it paying (5%, 10%, 15%, 20%)?

I guess resale values and prestiege might come in to some people's reckoning, but I'm particularly interested in what else makes us pay more for essentially the same product.

Any thoughts?

 

[marchie]

I think the other thing though is the brand's often rely on marketing hype to retain their position and snobbishness by consumers. Are designer clothes or watches really worth the money? I don't know because I've never owned any

The marketing of the premium designer products is what it says about you and your perceived status, and the perception that others have of you. That's why some buy hugely expensive designer Swiss watches or the chavvy [fake] Rolex, and I paid £24.98 for my wristwatch about 5 years ago. They both tell the time, and, unlike a French fellow cruiser who wore his Rolex on disembarkation in Buenos Aires, I didn't get beaten up and mugged for my Argos Special!

Steve

 

[The Wino]

The marketing of the premium designer products is what it says about you and your perceived status, and the perception that others have of you. That's why some buy hugely expensive designer Swiss watches or the chavvy [fake] Rolex, and I paid £24.98 for my wristwatch about 5 years ago. They both tell the time, and, unlike a French fellow cruiser who wore his Rolex on disembarkation in Buenos Aires, I didn't get beaten up and mugged for my Argos Special!

Steve

My watch strap needs replacing so I'm still getting around to it about 4 years on. It's surprising how few times you actually need to look at the time on a watch these days!

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[Pausim]

My watch strap needs replacing so I'm still getting around to it about 4 years on. It's surprising how few times you actually need to look at the time on a watch these days!

I haven’t worn a watch since I first discovered a pocket calculator which told the time in the 1970s. My phone now does the job when house clocks and car clocks etc. are not visible, which is not very often.

 

[marchie]

I worked in a Bank 50 years ago [in the days when everyone wore a suit and addressed customers as 'Sir' or 'Madam'], and every 2-3 months, a Local Director from the Regional Office Board would visit the Branch for morale boosting and to discuss one's [lack of] career prospects. Once in a Blue Moon, the Chairman of the Local Board, who also sat on the Bank's main Board, would make a visit, so it was heaven help anyone who stepped out of line.

The Chairman arrived at our dingy Branch in the industrial West Midlands and did his inspection of the rather shabby premises where dust and grime were blown in repeatedly from local factories and the main road 15 feet away, and said,in his rather patrician accent, 'The branch needs to be brightened up somewhat; why don't you get a couple of Constables for the walls?'

My Boss, who had previously worked in Regional Office and knew the Chairman as much as we mere mortals ever could [and who was renowned for his wicked sense of humour], waited 2 seconds or so, and replied, 'Well, sir. with the profits we make at this branch, we'd be lucky to afford a pair of Traffic Wardens ...'

Another Budget Brand Case Study ...

Steve

 

[SpeedyDux]

Especially is she's paying

I should be so lucky!

The trouble with polystyrene is that once it gets wet it holds the moisture.

At least when the polystyrene insulation is damp it won't ignite so easily.

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[SpeedyDux]

I haven’t worn a watch since I first discovered a pocket calculator which told the time i’m the 1970s. My phone now does the job when house clocks and car clocks etc. are not visible, which is not very often.

I still wear the wind-up watch that mum gave me on my 16th birthday. It has great sentimental value to me. About 30 years ago I finally found an indestructible strap (made in the USA). Proper job as we say round 'ere.

 

[Lenny HB]

Disagree!. I think cheaper ones tend to hold their value better in percentage and pound terms.

I would agree the budget & mid range vans appear to hold their value better. Once you start getting to the upper end of the mid range and are paying over 100k they lose a lot more in depreciation.
We have found depreciation low on Motorhomes our first one lost 5% a year over 6 years, our last one 3% a year over 3 years.

 

[Lenny HB]

If you have to ask how much you should be paying, you cannot afford it. Only you know how much spending/pocket money you have. No point spending it all on a van and having nothing left to go anywhere.

That's what the boss says when I look at Morelo's.

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[BouncyBoatFolk]

I was instilled with this adage of old, buy the best quality shoes and mattress you can afford, because when you're not in one, you'll be in the other, the rest is all negotiable according to needs and means and perceptions.
When younger, holidays for us and the kids was a week away in a sited van, and by jam packing every day with activity from dawn till dusk we were able to convince the kids they had been away for two weeks .
Sunlight owner for now, but!!
Mike

 

[marchie]

I was instilled with this adage of old, buy the best quality shoes and mattress you can afford, because when you're not in one, you'll be in the other, the rest is all negotiable according to needs and means and perceptions.
When younger, holidays for us and the kids was a week away in a sited van, and by jam packing every day with activity from dawn till dusk we were able to convince the kids they had been away for two weeks .
Sunlight owner for now, but!!
Mike

Elaine says if you're needing a boost to cashflow, we'll buy your T66! That would probably be our ideal model [though we have no experience on which to base the decision!], that extra 1/2 metre of space would just give a little more 'elbow room', without causing problems parking in supermarket carparks etc. How are getting on with the Sunlight?

Steve

 

[Minxy]

It ultimately comes down to what you want ... if you can get motorhome X with the same kit as motorhome Y but Y is built better however it costs more you need to decide which is most important to you. We could've got a cheaper MH than our Carthago but wanted a 'skinny' one, Carthago and Hymer are the only brands that have narrow A-class MHs and we found the quality of the Carthago superior to the Hymer for similar money. Had we not had this 'skinny' requirement we could obviously have considered others too but it was a non-negotiable requirement from years of experience as we knew this was the one thing that we wouldn't want to compromise on so didn't. It made our choice easier in some respects as we didn't have to look at loads of makes/models, just find the cash to buy what we wanted.

Even though it was a lot of money, which being a Yorkshire lass goes against the grain, we have no regrets whatsoever with our purchase as it made our last holiday so much more relaxing than any we'd had previously.

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[Lenny HB]

Premium brand motorhomes cost more than budget brands, naturally. Dethleffs cost more than Sunlight, Rapido cost more than Itineo, Hymer cost more... and so on. Some folk see value in premium brands, others don't.

How do we objectively measure quality and allocate it a value? A glance at price lists shows us premium sells for more, but how much more is it worth paying for something we cannot quantify?

If you bought a premium brand, how did you determine what precisely was better about it compared with its budget alternative and how much extra you thought it worth it paying (5%, 10%, 15%, 20%)?

I guess resale values and prestiege might come in to some people's reckoning, but I'm particularly interested in what else makes us pay more for essentially the same product.

Any thoughts?

If we couldn't afford it we would be quite happy with something like a budget Corado but once you have had something half decent you don't want to go backwards and they now appear very basic to what we have now.
Never earnt much but always been careful, mortgage paid off years ago had a few reasonable investments so now we can afford something better it's nice.

What make of car do you drive and how old do you buy them?. You are already doing the same calculation!

On my 3rd Kia it's nearly 9 years old we did buy it new, don't mind budget cars but prefer mid range motorhomes, the Motorhome does 4 to 5 times the mileage of the car, so it makes sense to us.

 

[jongood]

The true cost is not how much you pay for it but how much you will get back when you sell it! Cash in the bank is worth diddly squat at the moment so it is all about the depreciation in my mind. The better the make and quality the better it should hold its value

They all depreciate. A good used one is the best way to reduce it.

 

[robnchris]

Chris drives a Skoda Octavia estate, I have the VW Golf estate, both 2 ltr diesel engines when you are driving them you wouldn't know any difference, I do prefer the radio volume control on the steering wheel of the Skoda is so much easier to use than the Golf's.

We bought our Autotrail Apache new in 2013, the third Autotrail we had owned and definitely the poorest build quality but we knew that and have made changes that suit us, would I buy another Autotrail certainly not.

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[marchie]

We could've got a cheaper MH than our Carthago but wanted a 'skinny' one, Carthago and Hymer are the only brands that have narrow A-class MHs and we found the quality of the Carthago superior to the Hymer for similar money. Had we not had this 'skinny' requirement we could obviously have considered others too but it was a non-negotiable requirement from years of experience as we knew this was the one thing that we wouldn't want to compromise on so didn't. It made our choice easier in some respects as we didn't have to look at loads of makes/models, just find the cash to buy what we wanted.

Even though it was a lot of money, which being a Yorkshire lass goes against the grain, we have no regrets whatsoever with our purchase as it made our last holiday so much more relaxing than any we'd had previously.

I'm trying to wind my salivating tongue in and type at the same time, having looked at this year's model! Makes our proposed purchase look spartan in the extreme S'pose I could volunteer for Butler duties in you rig; you do have a Butler, don't you?

Mel, it is a gorgeous model, but, even if we could afford it, I would be scared witless to take it out on the road in case it got 'dinked' or worse! Reminds me of another episode of my time in the Bank. In 1980, a female colleague arrived at the Branch on Monday morning and announced that she had become engaged over the weekend. She showed this enormous Engagement Ring, and announced that it had cost £675 [in excess of 2 months salary for me, and I was approaching junior management grade!].

Clive Blakeman, the dour Assistant Manager looked at the ring and ordered, 'That's it, Philippa; You'll have to work in the Bank strongroom for insurance and security purposes' without cracking a muscle

Steve

 

[funflair]

They all depreciate. A good used one is the best way to reduce it.

Too true Jon if I had a limit of £80k-£100k to spend it wouldn't be on a new van that is for sure.

 

[BouncyBoatFolk]

Elaine says if you're needing a boost to cashflow, we'll buy your T66! That would probably be our ideal model [though we have no experience on which to base the decision!], that extra 1/2 metre of space would just give a little more 'elbow room', without causing problems parking in supermarket carparks etc. How are getting on with the Sunlight?

Steve

Hi Steve, thank you for quoting my post. T66, well we had no yardstick what so ever to work from,which sounds a bit similar to yourselves. We read a lot, on here and else where, went to shows and show rooms, and were quite frankly disappointed with the fit and finish of some of the more expensive new vans, doors that wouldn't shut, other doors that wouldn't stay shut, bits falling of them.
We took the decision to hire a van for trip, Sunlight V66,[ Shorter, narrower, but just about doable for two of us]. We decided for the considerable outlay [ for us] we'd go for the T66, which gave slightly more room, length and widthways, but was still only just 7mt. so would fit on the driveway outside the house. It was right for us, the build quality is not the same as other vans in the same family. It's solid, but they do use wood,which is the compromise on the cost. We have however seen 10 year old Sunlights. still going strong!! Our philosophy was, it should do 10 years easily,lets take a view then. I hope I haven't confused you more. Our van was an 18month old X hire with just 16k miles on it, so barely run in. I can do all the servicing myself. We have to have the water ingress check done shortly to retain the warranty, but it's only £85.00. I bought a little moisture check gizmo, and there is no moisture in the van at all. Being on the drive means we can pop out and open the doors and windows on a nice day to give it an airing. We have removed the soft furnishings for the winter lay over.
We are just putting together a trip around the West coast of Scotland, and some islands, but that won't be till later in the year.
If you need any further information feel free to PM me.
Regards.

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[Minxy]

Too true Jon if I had a limit of £80k-£100k to spend it wouldn't be on a new van that is for sure.

Depends what price you get the new one for!

 

[funflair]

Depends what price you get the new one for!

I can't see a new MORELO, Concorde, PhoeniX or even a decent sized N+B going for £100k so I think my views are pretty safe.

 

[Ivory55]

If I had 100k spare I would be staying in hotels and not carrying a toilet cassette across a field to empty, but all different.

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[Minxy]

I'm trying to wind my salivating tongue in and type at the same time, having looked at this year's model! Makes our proposed purchase look spartan in the extreme S'pose I could volunteer for Butler duties in you rig; you do have a Butler, don't you?

I do have a Butler ... he's called a 'husband' ... or to be more PC my 'partner'!

Mel, it is a gorgeous model, but, even if we could afford it, I would be scared witless to take it out on the road in case it got 'dinked' or worse!

Funny you should mention that ... dealer accidentally put a scratch down the garage door before we'd even had chance to use it (compensation paid).

Oh heck ... yet another very, VERY expensive show ...

What is the posh name for a Swift? I guess I will get fed up of the ladies whistling at me as they pass ? Seive

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

Then in our first (and only) holiday in it, having been away for 1 week some prat cracked the front bumper with a bicycle - we think due to the position they fell off their bike and the end of the handlebar bashed it on to the top of the bumper as we can't think of any other way that it happened.

Broken Link Removed

Then when it went in for it's hab service last year the dealer scratched the wallboard next to the bathroom door!


No matter how careful you are they will get marked/damaged etc so you just have to accept that it's gonna happen to a greater or lesser extent and there's not a lot you can do about it except be careful yourself within reason and not let it spoil your holiday.

Reminds me of another episode of my time in the Bank. In 1980, a female colleague arrived at the Branch on Monday morning and announced that she had become engaged over the weekend. She showed this enormous Engagement Ring, and announced that it had cost £675 [in excess of 2 months salary for me, and I was approaching junior management grade!].

Clive Blakeman, the dour Assistant Manager looked at the ring and ordered, 'That's it, Philippa; You'll have to work in the Bank strongroom for insurance and security purposes' without cracking a muscle

Steve

 

[Minxy]

If I had 100k spare I would be staying in hotels and not carrying a toilet cassette across a field to empty, but all different.

Easy solution ... get a 'butler' or don't use campsites!

 

[marchie]

Hi Steve, thank you for quoting my post. T66, well we had no yardstick what so ever to work from,which sounds a bit similar to yourselves. We read a lot, on here and else where, went to shows and show rooms, and were quite frankly disappointed with the fit and finish of some of the more expensive new vans, doors that wouldn't shut, other doors that wouldn't stay shut, bits falling of them.
We took the decision to hire a van for trip, Sunlight V66,[ Shorter, narrower, but just about doable for two of us]. We decided for the considerable outlay [ for us] we'd go for the T66, which gave slightly more room, length and widthways, but was still only just 7mt. so would fit on the driveway outside the house. It was right for us, the build quality is not the same as other vans in the same family. It's solid, but they do use wood,which is the compromise on the cost. We have however seen 10 year old Sunlights. still going strong!! Our philosophy was, it should do 10 years easily,lets take a view then. I hope I haven't confused you more. Our van was an 18month old X hire with just 16k miles on it, so barely run in. I can do all the servicing myself. We have to have the water ingress check done shortly to retain the warranty, but it's only £85.00. I bought a little moisture check gizmo, and there is no moisture in the van at all. Being on the drive means we can pop out and open the doors and windows on a nice day to give it an airing. We have removed the soft furnishings for the winter lay over.
We are just putting together a trip around the West coast of Scotland, and some islands, but that won't be till later in the year.
If you need any further information feel free to PM me.
Regards.

Thanks Bouncy,

This feels like filling in a crossword grid! Answering some of the clues feels good, but then looking at how many I still have to answer . No confusion with your reply, it's adding to our reassurance levels, as we do the 'No need to worry about that' crawling progress up the mental checklist. Probably still short of enough info to get a written shortlist, but we are getting there!
Elaine is from West of Scotland, but we've been over in Fife for almost 15 years. You should have a wonderful trip, there's a few overnight stay/Aires being built, andI suspect that the site providers will be bursting to get the business going again by generating very happy motorhomers et al.
I'll doubtless take you up on the kind PM offer [I'll try not to become a PITA, honest!] when I've thought of a few more queries!
Cheers.

Steve & Elaine

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[peterc10]

In car terms you're in the same place as us with a Skoda and a Seat wanting a bit of the brand's components without the price!. I would say careful with our money some would say tight others dilluded and the cars are nowhere near the same as the brand they're owned by.

Not sure I would agree with that. I used to have a Skoda Superb and it certainly lived up to its name. Had the Audi 2.5 litre turbo diesel engine with Tiptronic gearbox. Great to drive. More legroom in the back than the Audi A6 and well equipped. Nearly all the components had Audi or VW markings. The only reason I got rid of it was both kids had left home and we simply did not need all the space.

 

[Pausim]

Too true Jon if I had a limit of £80k-£100k to spend it wouldn't be on a new van that is for sure.

With a new one you can get it built to your specification, rather than buying someone else’s choice of goodies. We wanted an A-Class without the standard front drop down bed, which has been replaced with some very useful cupboards.

 

[funflair]

With a new one you can get it built to your specification, rather than buying someone else’s choice of goodies. We wanted an A-Class without the standard front drop down bed, which has been replaced with some very useful cupboards.

True and when you go to spec a new one without the front bed you are told "you will struggle to sell it on as most people want a front bed"

Yes it is nice to have new and to your own spec but if I was on a limited budget I would go for a "quality used van" close to our spec and then finish it off myself.

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[Pausim]

With a new one you can get it built to your specification, rather than buying someone else’s choice of goodies. We wanted an A-Class without the standard front drop down bed, which has been replaced with some very useful cupboards.

I asked whether there was a negative side to leaving out the front bed. He replied most of our purchasers are older couples and the front bed is never used. He added it would not affect his valuation if I were trading it in.

 

[Minxy]

I asked whether there was a negative side to leaving out the front bed. He replied most of our purchasers are older couples and the front bed is never used. He added it would not affect his valuation if I were trading it in.

If we hadn't wanted 2 separate beds we'd happily have had one without the front bed, we did see one at the show where we bought ours and it was nice and bright with more storage but was ruled out because of our requirement.

 

[funflair]

I asked whether there was a negative side to leaving out the front bed. He replied most of our purchasers are older couples and the front bed is never used. He added it would not affect his valuation if I were trading it in.

Suits us we ordered one specifically without the front bed

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[Lenny HB]

Suits us we ordered one specifically without the front bed

I thought Morelo's were the other way round the front bed is an option.