What’s happening with my batteries?

[RidersofRohan]

Looking forward to the big release on April 12th, we hope to go to the Yorkshire dales.
Bailey Advance. Two years old and the leisure batteries and solar were put in at the time, batteries are sealed type,
200w solar with Solar technology mppt to both leisure and vehicle battery split 50/50 when on the drive. In shade until mid afternoon.
Here’s the history on the Solar tech app for last few days. Leisure battery is no1 and vehicle no2.
And the state of charge. Oddly within two hours of very little charge from the solar they are showing full.
The van master is off and the only thing on as far as I know is the alarm system.
When I switch the control panel on and ask for the vehicle batt % charge it shows 50% then after a few seconds 47% and then rapidly declines every few seconds as though the control panel is draining it. Switch away from the vehicle batt and it equally rapidly recovers ( according to solar tech app measuring the voltage).
Over the last few days and occasionally during the winter have run the ehu and BCA charger.

 

[Richard n Ann]

First thing I'd do is put a multimeter directly on the battery to confirm that reading

 

[Lenny HB]

By those figures your batteries have never received a full charge, they should get up to 14.4v the float charge should be 13.6 - 13.8v. Constantly not charging the batteries fully will considerably reduce their life.
Also a bit odd splitting the charge 50/50, more normal to have 90% to the leisure battery & 10% to the starter battery.

 

[RidersofRohan]

First thing I'd do is put a multimeter directly on the battery to confirm that reading

Thanks. Hope to borrow one later today. I’ll put the result in here.

 

[RidersofRohan]

By those figures your batteries have never received a full charge, they should get up to 14.4v the float charge should be 13.6 - 13.8v. Constantly not charging the batteries fully will considerably reduce their life.
Also a bit odd splitting the charge 50/50, more normal to have 90% to the leisure battery & 10% to the starter battery.

The mppt is set to bulk for 14.4 but I rarely see that on the app it’s usually Float 0.25amps and I’m wondering if first thing in the morning because it’s in shade it rarely makes that voltage and just goes to float.
The bca charger I believe is 14.2.
The Mppt alternates between batteries and is only on 50/50 when parked on the drive. On site it’s 100% leisure.
I’m worried I might need to replace all 3 batteries.

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[pappajohn]

The Mppt alternates between batteries and is only on 50/50 when parked on the drive. On site it’s 100% leisure.

How does that work then?
How does it know its on the drive and not on a site? It's a 50/50 split, that can't change unless you change it.

 

[Russell's Dad]

The mppt is set to bulk for 14.4 but I rarely see that on the app it’s usually Float 0.25amps and I’m wondering if first thing in the morning because it’s in shade it rarely makes that voltage and just goes to float.
The bca charger I believe is 14.2.
The Mppt alternates between batteries and is only on 50/50 when parked on the drive. On site it’s 100% leisure.
I’m worried I might need to replace all 3 batteries.

I have the same MPPT I think. How do you set it to change how much charge goes to each battery? I'd like to do this as mine just switches between whatever battery needs charging the most and I'd prefer the leisure batteries to get at least 85%.

 

[RidersofRohan]

In the link between the mppt and the engine battery I have a switch. When on site I switch it off and it has no choice but to send 100% to the leisure. I don’t think there is a way of spitting it otherwise.

 

[Richard n Ann]

In the link between the mppt and the engine battery I have a switch. When on site I switch it off and it has no choice but to send 100% to the leisure. I don’t think there is a way of spitting it otherwise.

The starter battery should be full so will just be on a trickle charge anyway

 

[Russell's Dad]

In the link between the mppt and the engine battery I have a switch. When on site I switch it off and it has no choice but to send 100% to the leisure. I don’t think there is a way of spitting it otherwise.

Gotcha. That's a good set-up!

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[RidersofRohan]

First thing I'd do is put a multimeter directly on the battery to confirm that reading

Ok. I switched the solar supply to the vehicle battery off, left it a couple of hours and the multimeter was 12.46.
Do I need to find a new battery or would a good battery charger get it back?
I think I understand the reason the voltage decreased when looking at the control panel. When I switched the control panel to vehicle battery it actually powers the hab side from the vehicle battery, it doesn’t read the vehicle battery unless it’s providing power to the hab side, so it was under load hence the numbers decreasing as I watched.

 

[Richard n Ann]

Switch the control panel on and ask for the vehicle battery percentage. Leave the multimeter on the battery as well and see if the voltage drops more than say 0.3v. If it does, something is draining it.

 

[Richard n Ann]

It's at 80% anyway

 

[RidersofRohan]

Sincere thanks to everyone who has replied, not sure if I’m on a wild goose chase or just a fool.
Or both.
I was worried that all 3 batteries weren’t fully charged and that’s still true but they are at around 80%. I thought they were lower than that, maybe I was looking at the wrong chart.
I couldn’t work out if the solar was to blame or the charger, or me doing something dim. I suppose all three horses are still running. Well I think the solar doesn’t seem to reach past 13.8v and perhaps stays in float mode, whereas the charger does 14.2 as I’ve just switched it back on and used the multi meter and it was blasting out 14.2.
The dim bit is me not realising the trip switch on the 240v controller was off, so I was previously running the charger without electricity. I don’t know how long this was so, but might explain a lot. Switching the mains on from inside the house garage does not necessarily mean it’s reaching its target!

I think I might have learnt how to use a multi meter (perhaps).
I’m hoping that when I go multimetering again tomorrow I’ll have a slightly better result.
Thanks again.

 

[ED O'DARAC]

When I had older vans, they had lead acid 'wet' batteries for both the vehicle and solar would charge them up to 14+ volts.
It was reassuring to see the voltage go up and then they would drop gradually, giving an inaccurate, but useful guide to the state of the batteries just from the volt meter above the door.
Now, the vehicles have the newer type that you can tip on their sides, they never seem to reach even 13 volts. Very weird, indeed. It leads me to 'voltage anxiety'!
Give me old, cheap, higher voltage lead acid batteries anyday!

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[eddie]

When I had older vans, they had lead acid 'wet' batteries for both the vehicle and solar would charge them up to 14+ volts.
It was reassuring to see the voltage go up and then they would drop gradually, giving an inaccurate, but useful guide to the state of the batteries just from the volt meter above the door.
Now, the vehicles have the newer type that you can tip on their sides, they never seem to reach even 13 volts. Very weird, indeed. It leads me to 'voltage anxiety'!
Give me old, cheap, higher voltage lead acid batteries anyday!

Lithium certainly does

 

[Lenny HB]

Now, the vehicles have the newer type that you can tip on their sides, they never seem to reach even 13 volts. Very weird, indeed. It leads me to 'voltage anxiety'!
Give me old, cheap, higher voltage lead acid batteries anyday!

Gel, AGM & Lithium are the ones you can tip on there sides and they all need over 14v for a full charge.

 

[Ian Bosman]

Ok. I switched the solar supply to the vehicle battery off, left it a couple of hours and the multimeter was 12.46.
Do I need to find a new battery or would a good battery charger get it back?
I think I understand the reason the voltage decreased when looking at the control panel. When I switched the control panel to vehicle battery it actually powers the hab side from the vehicle battery, it doesn’t read the vehicle battery unless it’s providing power to the hab side, so it was under load hence the numbers decreasing as I watched.

Try charging with a smart charger which uses pulses to charge, they are much more compact than the old style chargers and have different settings for what is needed. Certainly the voltages shown are not up to what they should be. My 120 watt panel is keeping them around the float voltage even in the water but it is on the sunnier side of the house

 

[Tombola]

And remember if your batteries arent somewhat depleted the amount of charge being fed in by the mppt will be less

 

[RidersofRohan]

Try charging with a smart charger which uses pulses to charge, they are much more compact than the old style chargers and have different settings for what is needed. Certainly the voltages shown are not up to what they should be. My 120 watt panel is keeping them around the float voltage even in the water but it is on the sunnier side of the house

I switched the charger off last night and this mornings readings were Leisure 12.46 and Vehicle 12.55. The leisure are more of a worry, I am wondering if the onboard charger isn’t up to it, it had been on 12 hours.
I had been wondering about a smart charger. I think I would need 10 to 12 amps to charge the Leisure which are 200ah. That’s about £100+ so wanted to be certain, but a lot cheaper than battery replacement. I am thinking about a Noco Genius 10 which is a 10amp for around £120 from Halfrauds. Unless anyone has a better suggestion. Thanks for your reply.
I am wanting to go off on Monday, but will be on ehu so will rely on onboard charger.

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[Tombola]

I switched the charger off last night and this mornings readings were Leisure 12.46 and Vehicle 12.55. The leisure are more of a worry, I am wondering if the onboard charger isn’t up to it, it had been on 12 hours.
I had been wondering about a smart charger. I think I would need 10 to 12 amps to charge the Leisure which are 200ah. That’s about £100+ so wanted to be certain, but a lot cheaper than battery replacement. I am thinking about a Noco Genius 10 which is a 10amp for around £120 from Halfrauds. Unless anyone has a better suggestion. Thanks for your reply.
I am wanting to go off on Monday, but will be on ehu so will rely on onboard charger.

10amp charger wont do you much good with 200ah, you want at least 15-20% amps going in. So look for one that will throw 30amp ideally.
This is poss part of the issue, they have never had a full belt to get proper full, as Lenny said a bit back.

of coure if you have solar going in and ehu on board charger could help to get 20 plus but a decent charger will save you money on batteries in future.
They want a full belt about each month to keep em healthy

 

[RidersofRohan]

10amp charger wont do you much good with 200ah, you want at least 15-20% amps going in. So look for one that will throw 30amp ideally.
This is poss part of the issue, they have never had a full belt to get proper full, as Lenny said a bit back.

of coure if you have solar going in and ehu on board charger could help to get 20 plus but a decent charger will save you money on batteries in future.
They want a full belt about each month to keep em healthy

Thanks. I’m going to ask a silly question.
If it’s 30 amps wouldn’t it need a bigger supply to the van than a 16amp supply, or does the higher voltage supply reduce the amps from 30 to say 1.5amps?
I had looked the Noco 10 because it said it could handle 220ah batts.
Thanks for your help.

 

[Tombola]

Thanks. I’m going to ask a silly question.
If it’s 30 amps wouldn’t it need a bigger supply to the van than a 16amp supply, or does the higher voltage supply reduce the amps from 30 to say 1.5amps?
I had looked the Noco 10 because it said it could handle 220ah batts.
Thanks for your help.

No, it takes just enough power to run it. (runs on a 13amp plug remember) . My Victron 3 stage charger pulls less than an amp when in use.

the Noco 10 a is not too good for your needs yeah it may say it can handle 220ah batteries but at 10amp it wont ever give them what they need and take an age to charge, I cant comment on any others from real experience as use this below 30amp for my 200ah but Im sure votronic and sterling will do one too https://www.photonicuniverse.com/en...ery-charger-with-Bluetooth-connectivity.html?

 

[RidersofRohan]

Overnight Leisure batts down further to 12.41 from 12.46 yesterday morning. Vehicle batt improving now 12.58. So I’m guessing it’s a size thing easier to charge up a smaller battery hence the advice to get more amps charger.
Sourcing one before Monday might be difficult but will try.
if not possible we are away at a campsite for 4 nights with ehu, so will the leisure be kept happy for that time? Any thoughts anyone.

 

[RidersofRohan]

Trip over the Pennines to Alpha batteries in Rochdale this morning for Victron 30amp. Nice sunny morning to spend £££ so could be worse.

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[Lenny HB]

Your charger will work OK it will just take a bit longer, assuming it's not faulty.
What you need to do is separate your batteries and charge each one up fully then see how they hold their charge.
If they then look OK you can run some load tests on them. take it one step at a time.

 

[RidersofRohan]

Your charger will work OK it will just take a bit longer, assuming it's not faulty.
What you need to do is separate your batteries and charge each one up fully then see how they hold their charge.
If they then look OK you can run some load tests on them. take it one step at a time.

Do I need to wait until this evening when the solar panels are off, I don’t have a solar switch off?

 

[Lenny HB]

Do I need to wait until this evening when the solar panels are off, I don’t have a solar switch off?

Just put a sheet of cardboard or a blanket over the panels.
having said that probably best to disconnect one of the leads from the panels as when you reconnect the batteries you need to connect the battery and then the panels in that order.

 

[RidersofRohan]

First battery up and running and all fingers crossed. Repurposed a pair of jump leads. 10mm copper threads.
Covered solar panels with old carpet and underlay, then remembered there is also a 20amp fuse between the controller and the battery so removed that.
Picture taken after about fives minutes, think everything is proceeding although the night led is flashing but normal and recondition are lit constant. App on phone says Absorption so hoping is doing what is should do.
Thanks again.

 

[RidersofRohan]

First battery already on Float. Basically a few seconds on Bulk, about 30 minutes on Absorption, presumably 60 mins on Recond then Float. Bit underwhelmed by the history. Only 1.2Ah added. See what happens with the second of the Leisure batteries which is the current cycle.

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