- Dec 31, 2010
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I used one of these picked it up of ebay for £60 easy to fit https://uk.farnell.com/furse/esp-240-16a-bx/surge-protector-16a/dp/2470173
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yes you are nit picking..So here I am, nit-picking again. For any newbies looking at this, the 'MH Intake' should be a male connector, and the connector on the wire going into it should be a female. Male connectors have exposed pins.
Your description is correct but the picture is wrong.
This ones seems to be only 15A per phase and since we only use one that might be a bit limiting.Those who know about these things, could this be used as an alternative?
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Did you notice the red text?. "The neutral line will not cut off when the product cut off the power". Which suggests that (something we all should check anyway) that it will be useless IF the EHU was reverse polarity. Something to think about?.
What difference does it make?
It's not an personal safety device it's a 'stop my stuff being fried by too many volts' device.
Can you name a single device today that exposes the Neutral or Live wire to a person?
Everything today is double insulated or earthed, one pole is fine. For day-to-day faults the RCD does both poles.
Bearing in mind it is a lot of years since I studied "Electrotechnology". And time has moved on (a Lot).
My thinking is, In a reverse polarity situation, as can be found regularly still, on some continental sites. IF the voltage spike is not detected on the "neutral line", Because UK wiring does not have double pole switching. It would then be theoretically possible for the "spike" to reach the parts it should not?, In which case the "delicate bits" would be fried before the device operated, it being on the "neutral" line effectively when reversed, and therefore after the potentially fragile devices being protected?. It could be why the red text was there as a warning?.
Probably someone with much more recent experience, will come along and tell me if my theory has legs, but having spotted it I thought it was worth noting?.
Not sure it is looking for differences between L and N, unlike RCDs, so much as voltage variations. My concern would be that if the circuitry includes diodes etc it might only be monitoring the L side.With a break in the neutral (or anywhere) there can be no current flow. So no damage can be done.
Unless of course the voltage spike is many thousands of volts, then it can jump the contacts
Edit: reading your post again. It depends how it detects the spike. Would have thought it detects the difference between L and N.... Or N and L same difference .
Not sure it is looking for differences between L and N, unlike RCDs, so much as voltage variations. My concern would be that if the circuitry includes diodes etc it might only be monitoring the L side.
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For those with any interest in this, it is possible to convert a single-pole device to double-pole by adding a 2-pole contactor.Did you notice the red text?. "The neutral line will not cut off when the product cut off the power". Which suggests that (something we all should check anyway) that it will be useless IF the EHU was reverse polarity. Something to think about?.
Bearing in mind it is a lot of years since I studied "Electrotechnology". And time has moved on (a Lot).
My thinking is, In a reverse polarity situation, as can be found regularly still, on some continental sites. IF the voltage spike is not detected on the "neutral line", Because UK wiring does not have double pole switching. It would then be theoretically possible for the "spike" to reach the parts it should not?, In which case the "delicate bits" would be fried before the device operated, it being on the "neutral" line effectively when reversed, and therefore after the potentially fragile devices being protected?. It could be why the red text was there as a warning?.
Probably someone with much more recent experience, will come along and tell me if my theory has legs, but having spotted it I thought it was worth noting?.
It's not just on the continent. Building sites in the UK use a special 110 volt AC supply. There is no Live and Neutral. The two poles swing from -55 to +55 volts, in a kind of see-saw fashion so that when one is +55V the other is -55V, so that the difference between them is 110V. The idea is that no wire is ever more than 55 volts from the ground. Most healthy people like builders will not be injured by a 55V shock, in almost all circumstances.On the continent the earth systems are often different and can be unrelated to L & N - the wires that actually provide the power. For this protection earth is completely irrelevant and not even connected to the switch. Earth is simply a safety wire and carries no power.
ALL power is transmitted along both L and N wires. If any does leak out via a 3rd route your RCD switches you off. That's what the RCD is for.
There IS no polarity, it is alternating as Nikola Tesla designed it!
L or Line/Live is only more dangerous in the UK as Neutral is closer to earth.
On the continent the earth systems are often different and can be unrelated to L & N - the wires that actually provide the power. For this protection earth is completely irrelevant and not even connected to the switch. Earth is simply a safety wire and carries no power.
ALL power is transmitted along both L and N wires. If any does leak out via a 3rd route your RCD switches you off. That's what the RCD is for.
There IS no polarity, it is alternating as Nikola Tesla designed it!
L or Line/Live is only more dangerous in the UK as Neutral is closer to earth.
The voltage protecting device simply measures the AC voltage between L & N just as if you stuck a multimeter (on an appropriate scale) onto L & N yourself. Then if it's out of range it immediately switches or stays off.
Think of it as a miniature robot looking at a multimeter ready to switch off your 'van's power at a moments notice, as surrounding vans start overheating and going wrong. If you have 'auto-switch over to inverter' you may not even notice. That's the main danger of being too smart, you could be sitting quietly watching 'Only Fools and Horses' on DVD blissfully unaware of the catastrophy unfolding in the nearby bays.
If you are OK with it that is fine by Me. I noted that the Manufacturer, had seen fit to highlight the fact that the Neutral was (in theory) unprotected. And flagged it up. That is all I need to do. As you observe there is no "polarity" in AC, however the convention is applied (maybe erroneously?) to UK wiring. Ie. Brown is often referred to as Live, and Blue as Neutral. In fact I think there is a recent "new" wiring colour convention just to complicate matters too. We used to have red/black/green, then Brown/Blue/green-yellow.
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You can buy them here:
For a tenner, it would be rude not to.
Thanks for this info, I had never heard of these before. I am fed up of unplugging during thunder storms.. I will get one of these and fit asap.
Currently I have an extension lead with surge protector. All my sensitive stuff gets plugged into this. It will be nice to get rid of that 6 gang socket.
Here is a question for all u bright electrical people.
Would the following in a suitable enclosure be just as good as the device originally suggested @ a quarter of the price?
The technical details of the original dont say what the cutoffs values are that I can see.
So do u think the standard defaults on this alternative(?) would provide sufficient protection. U can tweek the values but I expect that u would have to set them up each time u applied power - cant see that your setup would be retained once power disconnected.
TIA
Bern
The product in @scotjimland's link has protection against lightning spikes as well as starting transients, which as @GPW says are too fast for this unit to respond.Here is a question for all u bright electrical people.
Would the following in a suitable enclosure be just as good as the device originally suggested @ a quarter of the price?
The technical details of the original dont say what the cutoffs values are that I can see.
So do u think the standard defaults on this alternative(?) would provide sufficient protection. U can tweek the values but I expect that u would have to set them up each time u applied power - cant see that your setup would be retained once power disconnected.
TIA
Bern
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As a non sparky - would a household type surge protection device work, similar to that required for latest 18th edition ? They are double pole protection?
So fitting the two items in a seperate enclosure that is wired in BEFORE the standard circuit breakers MIGHT provide more protection than currently exists (excuse the pun)?Nice little device, does current as well so you can dial in something below the site trip.
It does say: "Cut off in 1s if over volatge, under voltage or over current. "
so it's not super fast (I.e. not a substitute for an MCB) but I don't see why it shouldn't work. Maybe they mean 0.1s, but for overvoltage <1s should be enough to prevent stuff being fried. If your voltage nips up to 300V say it's the seconds after seconds after seconds turning into minutes that do the damage.
Lightning surges are a different thing, too fast for anything to react for a cut-off but surge suppression in general can help. For those belt + braces group there is always stuff like this:
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5...0001&campid=5338547443&icep_item=183657856726
This is a good thread, making me (us all) think about how our EHU systems and inverters work and can be safe and protect the van too.
So fitting the two items in a seperate enclosure that is wired in BEFORE the standard circuit breakers MIGHT provide more protection than currently exists (excuse the pun)?
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The units can look after themselves so yes they can be ahead of the MCB. If they are behind it doesn't hurt either as the MCB may trip on a spike, relieving the pressure but in practice I doubt it makes any difference.
I just have the over/under cutoff device for mine, for the 1 in 10000 chance of usage I'm confident it's going to help me a lot more than not having it. Actuall fitting it would also probably help, I'll have t get around to that LOL.
A more embedded option is to install a Victron inverter/charger which does the surge/boost/buck detection and switches over when required, but I'm uncertain how that will interact with the Electroblock charger in my Globecar, which would need disabling.
With the Victron you could be watching (a 240V) TV and never even notice as the surge arrives, it diverts for inverter mode and then disappears, and it switches back.
Which victron inverter charger would be suitable? Swift bolero 2008. I am in the process of fitting a sterling 60amp B2B (when i can bend down a bit more) and will in time fit solar.