Very light on front end. Poor traction. (1 Viewer)

[SalcombeRegis]

I have an Adria Matrix 600sl axess. A coach built on the fiat ducatto chassis. 2021. 4.4T. I have air bags on the rear and upgraded front suspension. Good tyres and monitor pressure regularly.

I love most things about this van but the big minus for me is what appears to be the lack of traction of the front end. It takes very little to spin the front wheels on the slightest of gradients or gravel surface.

Is this normal for all vans or specific to Fiat? Do the A class vans have a similar issue?

Had a tricky situation in Spain where I lost traction and could not go up so I had to reverse on a sharp bend to turn round and find another route.

Add a wet road into the mix and it can be a squeaky bum moment.

Look forward to hearing your views/experiences.

 

[Landy Andy]

A change of tyres makes a massive difference especially if you have camper tyres fitted.

I run winter tyres all season

 

[DBK]

What tyres do you have and what pressure?

 

[Mikeco]

Used to get that on a Burstner Solano that we had a few years ago, had to tell the wife to sit on the front edge of the seat .

 

[old-mo]

Had the same on various M-homes...

Try bringing any heavy gear near to the front as possible...

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[Lenny HB]

As said get rid of the crap camping tyres fit either winter or 4 season tyres it will make a big difference.

 

[Otter Spotter]

Shift as much weight out of the garage when travelling as you have quite an overhang from back axle in addition, maybe increase pressure on Air suspension at rear only to create a slight arse up nose down attitude, if you can.

 

[Guigsy]

Camping tyres are terrible. I've managed to do a burnout mounting a raised kerb in the dry. Switching to van tyres or winter varieties will give far more grip.

A-classes are roughly the same weight and weight distribution as coachbuilds on the same configuration.

If you're 4.4t, then you've probably got a lot in the garage. All weight behind the rear axle takes a bit of load off the front. Think of a seesaw. And going up hill will make it even worse.

 

[Larrynwin]

Does it have traction control, my last Hymer Aclass did and it makes a considerable difference.

 

[SalcombeRegis]

What tyres do you have and what pressure?

Camping tyres Michelin 5.5 bar

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[SalcombeRegis]

Does it have traction control, my last Hymer Aclass did and it makes a considerable difference.

No unfortunately.

 

[dunnah01]

An engine remap to knock back the low down torque would be the best compromise to allow you to travel with whatever loading suits you best.

 

[Millcourt]

I also have an Adria 600SL Axess (2022 model, Coral not Matrix, automatic, with MAM on delivery of 3,500 kg for B licence purposes) and have not experienced the problem you describe in almost 23,000 miles so far. I used VWE to upgrade to 3,960 kg. In effect this took the revenue weight to the origional chassis design weight, with the front axle being 1960 kg and the rear axle 2,000 kg.

You mention you have a registered MAM 4,400 kg. Have you (when fully laden, including driver and passengers) been to a flat-bed weighbridge to check the load on each axle? I suspect you may find that your load distribution is very much heavier at the rear than it should be. This will move the centre of gravity rearward and in effect make the front too light. The garage on this Adria model is quite large and very easy to overload. Also, if you have bikes etc mounted at the rear, this will also have a disproportionate effect in moving the centre of gravity away from the front end.

 

[Lenny HB]

Camping tyres Michelin 5.5 bar

About the worst tyres you can get for grip.
Our van was originally fitted with them. Front wheels would spin & TC cut in the slightest bit of gravel. I changed them well before they were worn out for Toyo Observe Van vast differences.

 

[G7UXG]

Had 7 front wheel drive motorhomes, three of them tag axles. The single rear axle vans were all plated at 4250kgs maximum gross weight. All have had camping tyres on, either Michelin or Continental. Done about 100,000 miles in total and not had any of the problems you describe.

As others have said, I’d look at the weight distribution.

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[IRHP]

Do you have bikes on the back? Is your water tank behind the rear axle, do you travel with it full?

 

[Carpmart]

Is it inappropriate to feel slightly smug having rear wheel drive and a diff lock!

Two things in your case SalcombeRegis, first one is tyres and axle loads, second is driving style. Momentum and a higher gear are both your friends.

 

[SalcombeRegis]

Do you have bikes on the back? Is your water tank behind the rear axle, do you travel with it full?

Yes to all of that.

I have taken it over a weigh-bridge fully laden with a full tank of fuel and just me on board. The axel weights all came in within what I would consider evenly under limits with surplus capacity - so not overloaded.

I always try and spread the weight trying to avoid the heavy items in the garage.

I think the advice on tyres is good advice but any other pointers is very welcome.

 

[Lenny HB]

My last van was 1630kg on the front axle the current one is 1930kg and is far worse on wheels spin.
The last one was a light chassis current one heavy chassis both same engine and gearbox, 150 bhp, Comformatic box.

 

[Just smiffy]

5.5 bar, must be like running on train wheels try lowering your pressures…

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[bigtwin]

5.5 bar

Eeek!

5.5 bar, must be like running on train wheels try lowering your pressures…

Agreed.

Ian

 

[Lenny HB]

5.5 bar, must be like running on train wheels try lowering your pressures…

When my van had the dreaded Michelin CP tyres I tried lowering the pressures it didn't make any difference, but dumping the CP tyres made a huge difference.

 

[Orion]

Camping tyres Michelin 5.5 bar

Adria Compact here up plated to 4250kg with 1960kg/2400kg and the same Michelin CP tyres. I run at 5.5bar rear and 4.5bar on the front and it has made a difference but they’re definitely not the best for traction on loose surfaces.

 

[Lenny HB]

Adria Compact here up plated to 4250kg with 1960kg/2400kg and the same Michelin CP tyres. I run at 5.5bar rear and 4.5bar on the front and it has made a difference but they’re definitely not the best for traction on loose surfaces.

Those can't be your actual axle weights as they total more than 4250, you need actual weights to set the tyre pressures correctly.

 

[Minxy]

One thing that nobody seems to have picked up on is that you beefed up the front suspension. This has likely raised the front and made the issue worse than it would have been without this mod. Is there any way to adjust it?

Failing that rearrange your kit to put as much heavy stuff towards the front as possible, under front seats even, to get the nose down and thus put more 'pressure' on the front end.

You could also stuff yourselves silly and turn into a couple of Mr Blobbys and add more weight upfront that way but you might then get jammed trying to move between the cab seats!

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[Lazyboy]

If you must have Michelin tyres, their cross climates are good. A lot better than the standard Michelin camper tyre Had good traction when fitted to a 2 axle van . Never had them on a tag. There are many tyres now that will give better traction than the Michelins. Lenny HB has the Toyo along with others and they give good reports. Do a search on here and you will get a decent amount of bedtime reading.

 

[VXman]

It is a common problem, particularly if you have a lot of weight at the back. Some tyres may have better grip than others, but there is no beating physics.

 

[offagen]

It's also good practice IMO to never let the front-mounted fuel tank level drop below a half full. Apart from other reasons, letting the fuel tank run low will remove weight from the front axle and increase the see-saw effect. Thus adversely affecting grip. Running with no more than a half tank of fresh water, unless essential for some reason, will also help balance the MoHo.

 

[Carpmart]

It's also good practice IMO to never let the front-mounted fuel tank level drop below a half full. Apart from other reasons, letting the fuel tank run low will remove weight from the front axle and increase the see-saw effect. Thus adversely affecting grip. Running with no more than a half tank of fresh water, unless essential for some reason, will also help balance the MoHo.

It depends where your freshwater tanks are though. In my case, the main one is centre/forward of the chassis. Full this gives me 350kg loading with a front axle bias, which is very useful for weight distribution… Put it this way, if I run empty of water, I’m definitely overweight on the rear axle.

 

[Guigsy]

It depends where your freshwater tanks are though. In my case, the main one is centre/forward of the chassis. Full this gives me 350kg loading with a front axle bias, which is very useful for weight distribution… Put it this way, if I run empty of water, I’m definitely overweight on the rear axle.

If it's between the axles, the load will be distributed between them (although not necessarily evenly).