Use of Gas in a van

[Dave46049]

Hi, I've just been advised that my new van will not have an undersloung LPG tank, but a locker for two 3.9l gas bottles.

So my questions are:

1. Can the gas bottles be used in the same way as the LPG - ie to power the fridge heating oven etc?
2. The original spec had a 25l LPG tank which seems to be 4 times the capacity of the LPG - so I'd have to replenish 4 times more frequently?
3. Would the Gas Bottles move from one to the other once empty or is that a manual thing as well, and can you view gas levels easily?
4. The dealer has said the change from Tank to locker is about £200 reduction - seems to be not much considering the drop in functionality?

Anybody have any advice / views?

Thanks
Dave

 

[WynandJean]

Underslung tank is not that common. Most of us use cylinders like you mention. Yes they power the same appliances. No need to move bottles when swapping over. There is an option to have refillable cylinders rather than exchange ones. These can be filled at a pump (a bit like deisel)

Wyn

 

[Blue Knight]

Hi Dave.......Autotrail by chance?


Here's the recent chat on the same subject:

Auto-Trail Switching from Underslung LPG to Bottles

I have a new Expedition 67 on order from Auto-Trail. However, dealership has just been notified that due to a shortage of underslung LPG tanks they are fitting a gas locker for two 4.5kg bottles (butane) instead. Dealer says that space in locker would not be enough for a Gaslow system (34cm)...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

All the best,

Andrew

 

[Dave46049]

Thanks Wyn - I'll make sure I get re-fillable ones!
Are they easy to come by - I've seen forecourt garages have gas bottles.

 

[Dave46049]

Hi Dave.......Autotrail by chance?


Here's the recent chat on the same subject:

Auto-Trail Switching from Underslung LPG to Bottles

I have a new Expedition 67 on order from Auto-Trail. However, dealership has just been notified that due to a shortage of underslung LPG tanks they are fitting a gas locker for two 4.5kg bottles (butane) instead. Dealer says that space in locker would not be enough for a Gaslow system (34cm)...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

All the best,

Andrew

Yes - Expedition 67.

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[Emmit]

Here is a real life answer.
We have a 'New to us' motorhome.

I appreciate that our van has a large fridge but;
In the last 10 days 'off grid' we used 15Lts of Gas.

In other words, if your van was used at the same usage as us, you would be OUT of Gas in two weeks,
Oh! and because you would be on UK bottles rather than a refillable underslung tank, you would be
limited to using the van in the UK only. (They can't be swapped abroad.)

Tell the dealer you want an underslung tank and see how much he quotes.

The van you ordered is NOT the van you're getting. Gas is FUNdamental (see what I did there?) to using the van to it's potential.

 

[Blue Knight]

Yes - Expedition 67.

That link will tell you all sir

 

[WynandJean]

Thanks Wyn - I'll make sure I get re-fillable ones!
Are they easy to come by - I've seen forecourt garages have gas bottles.

The system needs to be set up for them. Once installed they remain in situ (more like a tank would).

Wyn

 

[bobandjanie]

My thinking is they don't have room for bigger bottles, our last and present panelvan both have 2 x 11kg bottles.
The trouble with the small bottles it's more difficult to exchange most places only have 6kg or 11 / 13kg, I would insist you want a tank fitted, even if you have to arrange to take the motorhome and have one fitted at their cost.

Check out autogas 2000 and see if they have what you require the dealer with fob you off, and always go the easy and cheaper option. Bob.

<Broken link removed>

 

[Lenny HB]

2 x 3.9kg is pathetic, not fit for use in a modern Motorhome, that's only 15 Lt. A couple of weeks ago we did an 8 day trip and used 22 Lt, didn't even use the heating much.

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[raysalaugh]

It's obvious that Auto-Trail are adapting the van by fitting a measly gas locker, more of a bodge than a thought out solution.
The small gas bottles will cost a fortune to run long term and really not fit for purpose, unfortunately due to a lack of supply of underslung
gas tanks Auto-Trail see the gas bottles as an alternative to halting production of the Expedition.

 

[John H.]

These can be filled at a pump (a bit like deisel)

Exactly like an underslung tank. But LPG, not diesel.

In other words, if your van was used at the same usage as us, you would be OUT of Gas in two weeks,
Oh! and because you would be on UK bottles rather than a refillable underslung tank, you would be
limited to using the van in the UK only. (They can't be swapped abroad.)

We use 19 litre Safefill bottles. They can be filled at fuel stations. Morrisons and others in UK

The system needs to be set up for them. Once installed they remain in situ (more like a tank would).

Safefill are removable. Just like Calor bottles. Same connectors. You can mix and match (Safefill, Calor, Camping Gaz) if you need to.

 

[Shrimp]

Get bottles you can refill there is a shortage of exchange gas bottles at present!
Caravan where we are hunted most of PM and still didn’t manage to find one!

 

[Riverbankannie]

We use 19 litre Safefill bottles. They can be filled at fuel stations. Morrisons and others in UK

They are probably too big though for the PVC gas locker. From the other thread on this subject, it looks like the supplied locker only just big enough for 2 3.9kg bottles side by side.

 

[TerryL]

Yes, the "problem" is that Autotrail (and the other manufacturers as well) can't get hold of the underslung tanks - the other thread tells the story - so they are "adapting" the m/h to take a gas locker.

Now the advantage of underslung is you don't need a gas locker and the room is taken up by something else. Obviously to minimise this effect, they are going for the smaller bottles, refillable or otherwise.

Frankly, what you are being told about is unacceptable, if only for the fact that they are reducing your gas capacity to less than a third of what they "sold" you. It may not be the manufacturers fault but personally I would reject the van. Their problem, not yours as it will be in the future.

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[pappajohn]

If the dealer is saying a £200 reduction to have bottles tell him £200 is fine and you want a tank.
Fill on any petrol forecourt that has LPG pumps at around 65p ltr instead of paying calor around £2 a ltr and fill at any time, doesn't have to be empty.

 

[John H.]

They are probably too big though for the PVC gas locker. From the other thread on this subject, it looks like the supplied locker only just big enough for 2 3.9kg bottles side by side.

Easily solved by making the locker big enough for the wider diameter bottles.

 

[Riverbankannie]

Easily solved by making the locker big enough for the wider diameter bottles.

Ah, I had assumed that they might be taller too? An under bed/settee locker so I think difficult to raise. Dimensions given were just under 40cm high for the locker if I read the PDF correctly.

 

[John H.]

I was actually thinking of the width of the locker so that you could get two of the shorter Safefill bottles in.

 

[TerryL]

I don't think it's just a matter of making the locker bigger. A gas locker has to be properly vented and sealed from the interior of the van - it probably isn't that straightforward to basically change the interior design.

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[autorouter]

Thanks Wyn - I'll make sure I get re-fillable ones!
Are they easy to come by - I've seen forecourt garages have gas bottles.

By refillable he means a bottle that can be refilled from a pump by the user. All the gas bottles you see on forecourts are refilled by the supplier, by trained operators who know the system which avoids overfilling. They have only one connector, for input and output, with one tap.

A refillable bottle has extra connections. One for the output, just like the other bottles. One for the input, with a float valve that cuts off when 80% full, to avoid overfilling. One for a gauge, that has a float inside that measures the liquid level. These refillable bottles can be safely filled at a pump by an ordinary unskilled user. On the outside the bottles look very similar to the ones on the forecourts, but the extra connections identify them.

Underslung tanks also have the extra connectors. In fact a refillable bottle is simply a vertical tank. Except that refillable bottles are usually mounted where they can be easily removed. However once installed, they are rarely actually removed.

 

[John H.]

Autorouter's comments are are correct for a number of re-fillable bottles.

But, Safefill bottles only have one connector used to both fill the botle and then connect to the regulator for use. Simples.

They have to be disconnected to fill them, but re-connecting them is just the same as for Calor (same connector)

Search Safefill to see an interactive map of where you can get them.

 

[Langtoftlad]

I wouldn't dream of accepting a PVC without an underslung LPG tank - even if I had to wait, buy an older used model or a different manufacturer altogether.

• Inconvenience
• loss of capacity
• cost
• loss of internal storage space

How much of a bodge will this gas locker be? Easy access? Holes drilled in the floor?

A much more elegant solution would be what WildAx offer on their "Voltpac" no gas option.
Diesel/Electric heating/hot water, compressor fridge, lithium batteries.

 

[John H.]

I don't think it's just a matter of making the locker bigger.

I was actually thinking that Auto-Trail should design a locker of sensible dimensions as the vehicle is built.

 

[Dave46049]

By refillable he means a bottle that can be refilled from a pump by the user. All the gas bottles you see on forecourts are refilled by the supplier, by trained operators who know the system which avoids overfilling. They have only one connector, for input and output, with one tap.

A refillable bottle has extra connections. One for the output, just like the other bottles. One for the input, with a float valve that cuts off when 80% full, to avoid overfilling. One for a gauge, that has a float inside that measures the liquid level. These refillable bottles can be safely filled at a pump by an ordinary unskilled user. On the outside the bottles look very similar to the ones on the forecourts, but the extra connections identify them.

Underslung tanks also have the extra connectors. In fact a refillable bottle is simply a vertical tank. Except that refillable bottles are usually mounted where they can be easily removed. However once installed, they are rarely actually removed.

Thanks AR ( and others ).

The expedition ( when it had a underslung tank ) had a filler point on the outside of the bodywork - bit like a petrol filler or water filler.

I presume with the locker, to refill the bottles, you have to open up the locker and connect the hose from the LPG pump to the individual bottles?

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[Offagain]

Not necessarily.
When we bought the van it had a calor system fitted which we changed to Gaslow refillable with an exterior filler to make it look like we’re filling a tank because refilling gas bottles in Spain/Italy/Greece is not strictly allowed - although most places will turn a blind eye- but if you’re filling a tank it could be for propulsion.

 

[John H.]

However once installed, they [the bottles] are rarely actually removed.

Depends on the bottles - See my post above.

 

[Wellington]

I had my Carthago retro-fitted with Gaslow bottles when I bought it second hand. The filler is in the body work and you fill it just as you would a tank. I can't remember if it swaps automatically from one gas bottle to the other automatically. I should probably check that.

They are massive, though.

 

[WynandJean]

Ours was fitted here:-

 

[Lenny HB]

Always had my filler mounted in the sill, wouldn't want it in the bodywork too easy to do damage with the weight of the hoses and how awkward it can be to connect sometimes.

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