Unladen in running condition…

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Sopworth

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Hi again,

I'm about to agree to buying a Roller Team 707 (2013) from a private buyer. Having had a quick search on here (you guys are very knowledgable) my concern turns to the payload. I've just looked at the brochure for this MH and it stated the 'unladen in running condition' weigh was 3060kg and max 3650kg. The max weight isn't an issue for my driving licence but what does 'unladen in running condition' mean? Can't find a reference for it in the brochure. Does running condition mean fuel, water, gas all included? If so, then the payload might be enough for us (2 adults, 2 small kids and v small dog).

I fear I would be exceeding the max payload on the MH if we packed it up.
Thank you.
 
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If 3060kg was from a brochure I would take it with a pinch of salt.
Take it to a weighbridge fully loaded, including passengers, as if heading off on your jolly's.
Deduct that weight from the 3650 kg and the answer is...... that's bonus payload.
If its over 3650kg it's time to remove stuff.
 
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Its the 'how much stuff to remove' part of it that worries me after shelling out £30k
 
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pappajohn said:
If 3060kg was from a brochure I would take it with a pinch of salt.
Take it to a weighbridge fully loaded, including passengers, as if heading off on your jolly's.
Deduct that weight from the 3650 kg and the answer is...... that's bonus payload.
If its over 3650kg it's time to remove stuff.
Click to expand...

That assumes he's bought it. At the moment he hasn't.

Before he makes that decision, the OP wants to find out what the weight is with nothing in it. He could get that BEFORE he commits.

From where I'm sitting, 'Unladen in Running Condition' could mean, the 'van, with absolutely nothing in it. No driver, no water, a thimbleful of fuel, no gas, no passengers, Nothing.

If the above is reality at the weighbridge, you know what you, the other half, the dog, and the kids weigh.
Add to that 80-100 Kilos for a full tank of fuel, 25kgs for a 13Kgs tank of gas. The list goes on and on and is endless but, from the above, the OP can have some idea as to what wriggle room he has going forward.
 
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Is the 3650kg just in brochure or also stamped on weight plate or on V5.
As Pappa says "pinch o salt any get to weigh bridge and find out for sure

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From past experience the factory figures can be optimistic. They weigh the vehicle with, I believe, water tank half full and with a driver, not including a wife and children As a kind of yardstick try to give yourself at least 400kg payload. When fully loaded with food, drinks, camping equipment clothes and any additional equipment (TV, Re-fillable gas, Awning etc) and possibly a spare wheel (unless fitted as standard), you could find yourself having to eat light meals.
 
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Normally they quote MIRO (mass in running order) usually includes driver at 75kg, 90%fuel, 20Lt (20kg) water d 1 x aluminium gas bottle (most bottles are steel).

Then you need to deduct from the payload the weight of any factory fitted options, dealer & owner fitted extras also expect the van to be up to 5% over quoted weight.

Realisticly for a family of 4 you need over 1000kg of payload also make sure you do a good damp check we have friends with a Rollerteam they had damp problems at less than 3 years old.
 
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1000kg!!! I don’t think I’ve found a MH offeri that kind of payload - but then I haven’t really been looking at the numbers. Adverts don’t really mention weight much.

With a budget of £30k (might find a few more if needed), I’m struggling to find a MH with bunk beds (kids won’t accept less - tried and tested unfortunately) and a huge payloads. Open to advice!

As for damp in an Rollerteam. I couldn't find any and it’s having a habitation check in the coming days. Would that be sufficient to say damp free?
 
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Would the seller take you and the motorhome to a weight bridge (as part of the test drive) you could get the weight knowing what it included then?

I would be happy if I checked for damp (well hubby) and was having a habitation check too

I have seen very few motorhomes with bunk beds so well done finding one you like
 
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Our Motorhome's payload is over 1350 kg.

There have never been many vans with bunk beds, I think Corado do one probably will have better luck finding one in Germany if you don't mind importing. It's easy we have imported every van we have had.
Have a look here.
Broken Link Removed

With the hab check make sure you get a full damp report. Damp check & hab check are often seperate items.

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Nice van Sopworth When we were looking For our first van 3 years ago we really liked the 707, because of the bunks and the value for money that it represented. From memory the MIRO included full tank of fuel, one gas bottle and a slim driver (75kg). No water.

Check the handbook on their website for how Rollerteam record their MIRO to be certain.

We actually ended up with a similar van from Mooveo. The quoted circa 600kg payload Of the 707 was a smidge more than our van and that was enough for us as short term trippers (up to 2 weeks in French aires) with 2 adults and one small child. We did have to be a little careful with the duty free though (average bottle of wine weighs 1.25kg !) and we didn’t cart an awning around.

We bought our first van private and for the road test I arranged with the owner to take it to the weigh bridge because as a MOHO virgin I wasn’t really sure what was what when it came to payload and axle weights. Really helpful experience. It is surprisingly easy to overload but 600kg is a lot more than many new vans have and it just takes a little planning - and wandering around the caravan accessory showrooms with a set of luggage scales.

I also paid for the habitation check -
absolutely 100% get a habitation check done by a reputable Approved Workshop (AWS) and like Lenny HB says make sure that you get the full damp report. The AWS pre-owned inspection we had was very thorough and better in my opinion than what I get from my current motorhome dealer. It could be the best 200 notes that you spend.

All being well, hope to see another young family on the roads soon. It’s a brilliant way of spending time with the family.
 
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Thank you Mr Blo. I’ll ask the seller to check the handbook. Thankfully, we are a light family - I’m a keen cyclist and weigh only 72kg and my wife is slight and 5’1 so we might make this work. Driving to a weighbridge on the test drive sounds like the best course of action. It’s a lovely looking MH I thought and seemed immaculate inside and out.
Attentions have turned to their MHs in a bid to seek out some more payload. A Ci Mizar gtl living (2009 new shape) looks great too. Bunk beds, and has a max load of 4000kg with a reported 800 kg payload.
Like most MHs we look at, the thought of sell on value of a MH that has bunk beds (young families really) yet would require a C1 license to drive is a concern. In a few years time most parents of young families are going to have the license rights to drive them. Such a mine field!!
 
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Sopworth said:
Attentions have turned to their MHs in a bid to seek out some more payload. A Ci Mizar gtl living (2009 new shape) looks great too. Bunk beds, and has a max load of 4000kg with a reported 800 kg payload.
Click to expand...
If it is already plated at 4000kg it may be possible to uprate to 4250kg or 4500kg with minimum modification.
Get the plate details and make a note of the tyres including load index then give SV Tech a call they will tell you what is possible.
www.svtech.co.uk

Welcome

We are the UK’s leading vehicle re-rating specialist and experts in all matters relating to Vehicle Type Approval, particularly braking systems. We Support a Range of Vehicles We Provide an Accurate, Quality Service
www.svtech.co.uk
 
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I think (but stand to be corrected) that the "mass in running order" is more to do with restrictions in speeds, a thing peculiar to the UK I believe. It means a driveable vehicle but with no extras as it leaves the factory and different manufacturers appear to have different views of what is included. To be honest I'd not worry about it too much, the most important is the actual weight when fully loaded being within the permitted MAUW as set out in the V5. I've never heard of anyone being bothered about problems with the MIRO.

Before I ever encountered any comment about weights, payload etc. I called in at a local weighbridge whilst on our way out, fully loaded, on one of our ealier trips and found I was 150kg over the, then, MAUW. Upon return I had it uprated to 3850kg MAUW, which is the highest I think the Fiat camper or "light" chassis can be rated at.
 
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TerryL said:
I think (but stand to be corrected) that the "mass in running order" is more to do with restrictions in speeds, a thing peculiar to the UK I believe. It means a driveable vehicle but with no extras as it leaves the factory and different manufacturers appear to have different views of what is included. To be honest I'd not worry about it too much, the most important is the actual weight when fully loaded being within the permitted MAUW as set out in the V5.
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I will correct you then.
MIRO is what nearly all manufacturers quote and base there payload on.
The Unladen weight is what governs speed limits in the UK, 3050kg unladen the speed limits are the same as a car.

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Have look on DVLA website, <Broken link removed>.

A motorhome with an unladen weight under 3050Kg is considered a car and the national speed limits apply. Over 3050Kg unladen weight means lower speed limits.

Type of vehicleBuilt-up areas mph (km/h)Single carriageways mph (km/h)Dual carriageways mph (km/h)Motorways mph (km/h)
Cars, motorcycles, car-derived vans and dual-purpose vehicles30 (48)60 (96)70 (112)70 (112)
Cars, motorcycles, car-derived vans and dual-purpose vehicles when towing caravans or trailers30 (48)50 (80)60 (96)60 (96)
Motorhomes or motor caravans (not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight)30 (48)60 (96)70 (112)70 (112)
Motorhomes or motor caravans (more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight)30 (48)50 (80)60 (96)70 (112)

Do not get this confused with the 3500Kg driving licence requirements.

It is a good idea to get your motorhome weighed empty, just enough fuel to get you to the weighbridge. That way you have some documentation to your being allowed to use the higher speed limits.

Sopworth, in your case you appear to be over the 3050Kg limit. But, I would attempt to get a weighbridge weight certificate under the 3050Kg and not mention the brochure to any speed cop.
 
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68c said:
Have look on DVLA website, <Broken link removed>.

A motorhome with an unladen weight under 3050Kg is considered a car and the national speed limits apply. Over 3050Kg unladen weight means lower speed limits.

Type of vehicleBuilt-up areas mph (km/h)Single carriageways mph (km/h)Dual carriageways mph (km/h)Motorways mph (km/h)
Cars, motorcycles, car-derived vans and dual-purpose vehicles30 (48)60 (96)70 (112)70 (112)
Cars, motorcycles, car-derived vans and dual-purpose vehicles when towing caravans or trailers30 (48)50 (80)60 (96)60 (96)
Motorhomes or motor caravans (not more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight)30 (48)60 (96)70 (112)70 (112)
Motorhomes or motor caravans (more than 3.05 tonnes maximum unladen weight)30 (48)50 (80)60 (96)70 (112)

Do not get this confused with the 3500Kg driving licence requirements.

It is a good idea to get your motorhome weighed empty, just enough fuel to get you to the weighbridge. That way you have some documentation to your being allowed to use the higher speed limits.

Sopworth, in your case you appear to be over the 3050Kg limit. But, I would attempt to get a weighbridge weight certificate under the 3050Kg and not mention the brochure to any speed cop.
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Whilst it might give 'Peace of mind' to have the 'van weighed but I'm not taking off (and out) in no particular order, the bike rack, the awning, the microwave, solar panels, the regulator, the 11kgs gas bottle and contents, and finally the batteries.

None of the above count towards the' Unladen weight' used as a calculation for speed as the van didn't get made with them on it.
 
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Sopworth. As a keen cyclist, please be aware that if you have a large overhang at the rear and put a bike on it, it can weigh twice its actual weight on the axle.
 
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Lenny HB said:
I will correct you then.
MIRO is what nearly all manufacturers quote and base there payload on.
The Unladen weight is what governs speed limits in the UK, 3050kg unladen the speed limits are the same as a car.
Click to expand...

Thanks - I think that is what I meant but it didn't come out quite right!
 
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3060kg means lower speed limits. My van is 3050 so I can drive the same speed as a car. My gross weight is 4500kg

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Our first motorhoming experience was with a hire van. It was a Chausson and had bunk beds at the rear. I'm sorry I can't recall what model it was .
 
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