To GEL or not to GEL - That is my question

tonka

tonka

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A class Burstner 800
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Can you tell i went to the Stratford meet. :wink: (y)

Ok... My Shiney gold Burstner, new to me May 2019 but original 2014 model, has 2 x LFD90 Varta leisure batteries.
Working fine but after trying to establish if these are original, so could be 6 years old+ or replaced at some point has been difficult.
All the info on the internet does not seem to match anything on the batteries, I emailed Varta but no reply.
Companies like Tanya batteries also no help.

ANYWAY... The EBL220 unit i have supports GEL batteries and i understand Gel will go down to a lower discharge level.
If i decide to replace the batteries what are people thoughts on GEL... Good / bad / not worth the bother etc..
Got 200w of solar, adequate for us at present.

IMG_20200817_180903.jpg
 
Varta LDF90 are excellent flooded batteries. Gels will stand up to lower discharges better, as you say. If there's any downside to gels, it's that they are not good for very high discharge currents, so if your next step is a high-power inverter then think again. Other than that, they are great.

Does your solar charge controller have a gel setting? If you're not usually on EHU then solar will be the main source for topping up, and gels need the extra time in the final (absorption) charging phase to get fully charged.
 
Chipster said:
Would this held establish build date?
date.?
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Thanks but I have been though all the youtube videos and web info i can find and nothing seem to match.
Some say its stamped on the terminals, not on mine. :(
 
autorouter said:
Varta LDF90 are excellent flooded batteries. Gels will stand up to lower discharges better, as you say. If there's any downside to gels, it's that they are not good for very high discharge currents, so if your next step is a high-power inverter then think again. Other than that, they are great.

Does your solar charge controller have a gel setting? If you're not usually on EHU then solar will be the main source for topping up, and gels need the extra time in the final (absorption) charging phase to get fully charged.
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Fully agree on how good Varta are and will stick with new ones if i cant see any real benefit from Gel.
Solar regulator is the Schaudt LR1218 not MPPT I know but this feeds direct into the EBL 220 unit and that has a switch for wet / gel.
We do use a 1100w inverter but little use, hair dryer every few days for a few mins. Small air fryer (1kw) occassionally when grandson comes and likes his crispy chips and a Toaster as i prefer that to using the grill, not used daily so no great constant drain.
200w of solar.

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I bought the 80ah Exide battery last year and it's great, but any 1 year old battery would be wouldn't it 🤔

If you go for gel you may only need one, we get 64ah useable compared to 50ah with the previous standard lead acid battery. Plus gels are supposed to last twice as long 🤞
 
tonka said:
Solar regulator is the Schaudt LR1218 not MPPT I know but this feeds direct into the EBL 220 unit and that has a switch for wet / gel.
Click to expand...
The switch for wet/gel only affects the mains charger built into the EBL220. The solar goes directly to the battery, via a fuse and the measuring shunt of course.

The wiring diagram for the EBL220 is in the manual, which can be downloaded from the Schaudt website, if you can wade through the German language bit. English language manuals are available there
 
If they are easy to get to, making maintenance simple, then there is nothing wrong with a regular value for money flooded which will give years of service. If they are stashed under seats or worse, making maintenance a pain, replace them with gels for less worry. Or better still, we all know you're a very rich man, cough up for Lithium '\
 
I thought the Gels were great on our Flair, if we didn't now have £1000's worth of LiFePO4 it would be Gel again for sure. Two 80ah Exide ran an inverter making about 1200watts for a good few years and then the addition of two more was twice as good ;) still going strong and the first two will be 10 years old, so at that rate I need over 100 years out of the LiFePO4's.

Martin

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Minxy Girl said:
Calling Lenny HB :giggle:
Click to expand...
:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL:

tonka the original fit in 2014 would have been AGM probably Banner, they may have been replaced after 1 to 2 years, the life of a Banner AGM. Or, if the 1st buyer asked for a 2nd battery the dealer may have fitted 2 LDF90, a lot of Hymer dealers did this because of the unreliability of the Banner AGM's.

The LDF's are a fairly good battery but Gel are much better & a 80a/h Gel will give you 28% more capacity than a 90a/h flooded cell. Life expectancy of a Gel is 6 to 10 years plus. The only downside of Gels is they take a bit longer to charge but overall they are a very good leisure battery one of the very few batteries that are actually a proper leisure battery.
 
autorouter said:
The switch for wet/gel only affects the mains charger built into the EBL220. The solar goes directly to the battery, via a fuse and the measuring shunt of course.

The wiring diagram for the EBL220 is in the manual, which can be downloaded from the Schaudt website, if you can wade through the German language bit. English language manuals are available there
Click to expand...

Thanks.. One of the first things i did after getting the van was to get the manuals online..
Been with Autotrail / Sargent for so long so it was all new to me.


Jim said:
Or better still, we all know you're a very rich man, cough up for Lithium :D
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Jim... Your getting as funny as Old mo.... Almost. :rofl: :rofl:


funflair said:
I thought the Gels were great on our Flair, if we didn't now have £1000's worth of LiFePO4 it would be Gel again for sure. Two 80ah Exide ran an inverter making about 1200watts for a good few years and then the addition of two more was twice as good ;) still going strong and the first two will be 10 years old, so at that rate I need over 100 years out of the LiFePO4's.

Martin
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Was waiting on your input Martin.. (y)


icantremember said:
Oh! it's batteries .. saw the title and thought you were looking for a new hair do. :wink:
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Really.. Have you seen my bald bonce..


Minxy Girl said:
I thought it was gonna be about using lip gel ... :lips:
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Shh..... Old mo will get jealous.. :*
 
Regarding the solar regulator Lenny HB usually says the Schaudt LR1218 regulator isn’t really very good for charging lead acid batteries.
I swapped mine for a Voltronic duo250.
 
Manic said:
Regarding the solar regulator Lenny HB usually says the Schaudt LR1218 regulator isn’t really very good for charging lead acid batteries.
I swapped mine for a Voltronic duo250.
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Yep, the LR1218 was good in it's day, 20 years ago. The problem with it is that it's not only a PWM but it is a single stage charger. Once the voltage gets to 14.2v it just holds at 14.2v, no absorption phase, no maintenance stage. Gel can live with it but other types of batteries don't like it.

The Votronic duo MMP range can be wired directly into the EBL.
 
Manic said:
Regarding the solar regulator Lenny HB usually says the Schaudt LR1218 regulator isn’t really very good for charging lead acid batteries.
I swapped mine for a Voltronic duo250.
Click to expand...
More likely Votronic at a guess ;) Voltronic are a Taiwan manufacturer that seems get branded with different names on them.

Martin
 
I replaced my two Banner 110amp batteries with two Exide Marine 85amp GELs and seem to get more power from these than the Banner, having about 240w solar helps too. We mostly wild camp and very rarely use hook up, never had a problem yet.

Also we did nearly 8 weeks touring Europe last year with only 5 or 6 nights on sites with hook up. thoroughly recommend these batteries, not cheap though.

www.tayna.co.uk

ES950 Exide G85 Marine Leisure Equipment GEL Battery 85Ah

ES950 Exide Marine & Leisure Equipment GEL Battery Exide are one of the leading battery companies in the world and have been delivering quality in the sector for more than 130 years! Exide has introduced its next generation of car/light vehicle batteries. The range is developed in Exide’s...
www.tayna.co.uk www.tayna.co.uk
 
tonka said:
Fully agree on how good Varta are and will stick with new ones if i cant see any real benefit from Gel.
Solar regulator is the Schaudt LR1218 not MPPT I know but this feeds direct into the EBL 220 unit and that has a switch for wet / gel.
We do use a 1100w inverter but little use, hair dryer every few days for a few mins. Small air fryer (1kw) occassionally when grandson comes and likes his crispy chips and a Toaster as i prefer that to using the grill, not used daily so no great constant drain.
200w of solar.
Click to expand...
Richard and Ann said:
If you go for gel you may only need one, we get 64ah useable compared to 50ah with the previous standard lead acid battery. Plus gels are supposed to last twice as long
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If you do swap to Gel, I would stick with having two. One limitation of Gels is that they are not keen on high discharge rates, so with that inverter & those appliances, pulling that load even for short periods will put quite a strain on a single battery.

I think I'd be looking to upgrade that solar regulator as well. Schaudt do do an MPPT regulator now, but I'd go for the Votronic with the EBL connection. It will also keep your starter battery topped up.

But having said that - sticking with the Varta replacements wouldn't be a bad decision either if the existing ones have proved adequate for what you use.
 
Check out the Sonnerschein ones on the Tayna website too, they are made by Exide but usually cheaper.
 
I'm a gel fan, got 3 x 120 exide gels at the mo.
I'm sure the votronic will run the fridge on auto energy select if enough solar coming in. I know one of the solar regulators do.
I would look at your charger. They say 1amp charger for every 10 amps battery.
I have 2 x 18a chargers for 360 amp batteries.
As said, gels take longer to charge but you can run them.lower.

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OK.. Just for anyone thats interested / bothered / bored etc..

I am keeping it simple and have ordered 2 x Varta lfd90 replacements (y)
Did a bit more research on the web and i think i found some code list that gives the batteries i have as February 2014, so originals.. As said they havent given me any issues as yet but we plan to do more off grid in the winter and i feel happier knowning new batteries are fitted.

I will also be changing the solar regulator.. Currently its a Schaudt LR1218 which i know is PWS.. After all the reading here on Fun and elsewhere I will go with the Voltronic MPP250 and associated lead to fit my EBL 220 unit... Anyone got one for sale,,, Shout up now.. :wink:
 
No not got one for Sale but roadpro are doing it at a reasonable price and I think funsters get a discount
2BBB8B79-F500-463F-872C-C3C5A0057F97.png
 
Theonlysue said:
I'm sure the votronic will run the fridge on auto energy select if enough solar coming in. I know one of the solar regulators do.
Click to expand...
Yep, I've made use of it but you do need to fit a switch or relay in line with the signal wire from the regulator. The dumb firmware in the Dometic fridge, if it sees a signal from the solar regulator it switches to 12v even when on mains. I fitted a mains relay so no need to think about it.

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