Suggestion for a Legal Issues or Problems to be aware, scams etc

[dinosawus]

Dont see a forum to raise issues about scams, illegal or bad practice in sales of motorhomes by private sellers, brokers or dealers, legal issues with recovering money etc.

 

[pappajohn]

That's because there isn't one.
All the above will come under motorhome chat and U shaped lounge.

 

[Figaro]

 

[WynandJean]

Hello and welcome from West Midlands.

Wyn

 

[nicholsong]

Dont see a forum to raise issues about scams, illegal or bad practice in sales of motorhomes by private sellers, brokers or dealers, legal issues with recovering money etc.

Just joined and you want changes made already? Hmmmmmm

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[Otter Spotter]

Dont see a forum to raise issues about scams, illegal or bad practice in sales of motorhomes by private sellers, brokers or dealers, legal issues with recovering money etc.

Who you hoping to Scam ?

 

[dinosawus]

I had a bad experience with buying a MH from a private seller with serious damp issues which I didnt find out about until 3 months after I bought it. I bought the vehicle from a private seller but through a broker. Neither the broker or the seller mentioned anything about the damp at the time of sale. The damp repairs will cost £4,000 and the price paid was £16,000 which is the value for this vehicle in top condition.

I went back to the broker and seller within the first 3 months to ask them to share half the cost of the repairs and they have both refused any obligation for the issues and engaged a lawyer who claims caveat emptor.

Buying a vehicle through a private seller provides the least grounds for legal recourse making it difficult to claim. A broker states that they are only providing a liaison between the seller and the buyer and accepts no responsibility for the condition of the vehicle even though they are acting as a fence so that the seller doesnt need to speak to the buyer at any stage during the sale except during the handover once the transaction is complete.

Most people seem to side with the caveat emptor or buyer beware ethos for private sales of vehicles but when buying a MH as a novice it is very difficult to see damp problems and most new buyers are not aware of habitation reports and using a broker makes it easier for sellers to pass on a vehicle that is not actually fit for purpose and still achieve a good market value.

The right thing to do would be for all parties to agree on a settlement privately and for the seller to accept at least some responsibility that the vehicle which was not fit for purpose and the sale price was too high for the condition of vehicle. But its also possible for a seller to engage a lawyer and hide behind them and the law doesnt protect consumers in private motor vehicle sales.

 

[Vipar]

Sorry that you had to learn the hard way. But thanks for posting your problem it will alert others. Are you going to join the club?

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

You always have recourse in a small claims court for the £4k that it will cost you to put the vehicle right.it may be advisable to write to the seller and advise that this is the course of action you will take if he doesn't at least pay for half the cost of repairs. A lot will depend on how the seller /broker advertised the vehicle.ie excellent condition,no damp etc etc.
Ps there is some invaluable info to be had on this website but you will probably need to join to benefit from it.

 

[Geo]

You ignore the possibility of the MoHo being perfectly fine on day of sale and water ingress starting in weeks 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Ect of your ownership
How does that sit with you?

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[gus-lopez]

 

[mitzimad]

amazes me how people can spend motorhome sized sums of money without due dilligence but can find where to complain about it afterwards

 

[Spriddler]

amazes me how people can spend motorhome sized sums of money without due dilligence but can find where to complain about it afterwards

Experience is something you get just after you needed it.

There are known knowns; there are things we know we know.

But there are also unknown unknowns — there are things we do not know we don’t know.

Donald Rumsfeld.

 

[Figaro]

You ignore the possibility of the MoHo being perfectly fine on day of sale and water ingress starting in weeks 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 Ect of your ownership

Whilst possible, it's probably unlikely isn't it.

 

[chaser]

Not a lot of sympathy really, if you buy private you should know what you are doing, and take the risk but negotiate a good price in lieu of something being wrong with it, you probably signed a thing, as sold as seen.
If so not much you can do.
If you don't know what you are doing don't buy private.

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[androidGB]

How about the possibility that the original owner wasn't aware of the damp issue.

Also when a friend was selling a vehicle the prospective purchaser engaged the services of a company that do habitation services etc to carry out an inspection. Seemed like a very sensible thing to do

Andrew

 

[Daniel. M]

It always saddens me when people make a mistake, then expect other people to pay for it.

Unless the buyer specifically asked the seller if there are any known problems regarding damp, engine, gearbox, hab area etc, then he has no legal leg to stand on.

Man up, take it on the chin and move on, lesson learnt

 

[TheBig1]

Sorry but you have been given bad advice, you purchased from a business, the broker. You have a contract with them and as the professional in the deal, they should be insured. Caveat emptor or buyer beware applies to private sales and trade sales, not a broker selling to the public, al be it on behalf of the seller

 

[vin0114]

wot's and why a free member?

 

[Phill D]

wot's and why a free member?

they are not paid subs so after 5 posts is read only

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[nicholsong]

Sorry but you have been given bad advice, you purchased from a business, the broker. You have a contract with them and as the professional in the deal, they should be insured. Caveat emptor or buyer beware applies to private sales and trade sales, not a broker selling to the public, al be it on behalf of the seller

He said 'broker' not dealer. From that I understand the broker was probably advertising the MH and showing it on behalf of the owner.

Without examining the contract between owner and broker and knowing what representations the broker made about his role it is not possible to be form on liability, but I suspect the broker was acting as 'Agent' for the owner as 'Principal'.

While a principal is responsible for the actions of his agent the principal bears the legal responsibility.

I doubt whether the contract was between the broker and buyer - probably between the owner and buyer, in which case the only action, if any, would be against the owner as principal.

If neither principal nor agent made any representation as to dampness then the buyer has no redress.

Geoff

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

Sorry to hear of your plight, but what does a "private seller with serious damp issues", look like?
Was it warm when you were buying the van, and did he sweat a lot?
Only asking for a friend

 

[TheBig1]

I have sold vehicles via a broker before and they were very specific about the maintenance being up to date, so there could be no claims against them. Acting as an agent for a fee is one thing but taking a percentage of the sale price means the agent has an interest in how much it sells for. Because of that interest in making a profit and selling the vehicle professionally, the agent/broker is the "expert" in the selling of vehicles, with liability

 

[Daniel. M]

He said 'broker' not dealer. From that I understand the broker was probably advertising the MH and showing it on behalf of the owner.

Without examining the contract between owner and broker and knowing what representations the broker made about his role it is not possible to be form on liability, but I suspect the broker was acting as 'Agent' for the owner as 'Principal'.

While a principal is responsible for the actions of his agent the principal bears the legal responsibility.

I doubt whether the contract was between the broker and buyer - probably between the owner and buyer, in which case the only action, if any, would be against the owner as principal.

If neither principal nor agent made any representation as to dampness then the buyer has no redress.

Geoff

Now these are the words of someone who is clued up on the law,

 

[Chris]

I think you would be very, very unwise to take the owner to court over this.

Your choice though, and risk.

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[Captain Yoghurtpot]

I had a bad experience with buying a MH from a private seller with serious damp issues which I didnt find out about until 3 months after I bought it. I bought the vehicle from a private seller but through a broker. Neither the broker or the seller mentioned anything about the damp at the time of sale. The damp repairs will cost £4,000 and the price paid was £16,000 which is the value for this vehicle in top condition.

I went back to the broker and seller within the first 3 months to ask them to share half the cost of the repairs and they have both refused any obligation for the issues and engaged a lawyer who claims caveat emptor.

Buying a vehicle through a private seller provides the least grounds for legal recourse making it difficult to claim. A broker states that they are only providing a liaison between the seller and the buyer and accepts no responsibility for the condition of the vehicle even though they are acting as a fence so that the seller doesnt need to speak to the buyer at any stage during the sale except during the handover once the transaction is complete.

Most people seem to side with the caveat emptor or buyer beware ethos for private sales of vehicles but when buying a MH as a novice it is very difficult to see damp problems and most new buyers are not aware of habitation reports and using a broker makes it easier for sellers to pass on a vehicle that is not actually fit for purpose and still achieve a good market value.

The right thing to do would be for all parties to agree on a settlement privately and for the seller to accept at least some responsibility that the vehicle which was not fit for purpose and the sale price was too high for the condition of vehicle. But its also possible for a seller to engage a lawyer and hide behind them and the law doesnt protect consumers in private motor vehicle sales.

Having read this several times, and apart from my flippant remark to try and make light of your situation and inject a little light heartedness into your unfortunate situation, are you suggesting that the owner of the motorhome (seller?) was in some way in collaboration with the Broker?

 

[Geo]

Whilst possible, it's probably unlikely isn't it.

Explain why?
It had to start leaking one day why not the day after he bought it?

 

[WillH]

Did the broker provide evidence of a damp test?

 

[Realist]

The biggest problem the above has in regards to damp 3 months later is how can you prove otherwise, was it present at the time of the sale or is it a result of your use of the van after purchase.

You will never win this case and I would put the money you would pay out in fees into the van and sort the issue out.

You’ll never get it back but your financial return will be in its enjoyment of use after the fix.

Best wishes.

 

[Itsmcb]

Explain why?
It had to start leaking one day why not the day after he bought it?

Or several days or even weeks afterwards? In fact if it had started leaking at the beginning of the year the original owners may not have even been aware of the damp due to the lovely dry weather we had at the start of this year. It cannot be anywhere obvious if it's taken all this time to be discovered.

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