Sub 3500 kg vans

[Graham of Madrid]

Is there a contingent on here that really believes people with 3500kg vans are idiots ? I have a C1 licence but chose such a van.

There seems to be a 'mine has more payload and is bigger and better than yours' group on here and I don't think it's healthy for a forum.

 

[kevenh]

Is there a contingent on here that really believes people with 3500kg vans are idiots ? I have a C1 licence but chose such a van.

There seems to be a 'mine is bigger and better than yours' group on here and I don't think it's healthy for a forum.

Haven't noticed that
Our motorhome is <6m Long <2.3m Wide < 3m tall and under 3500kgs.
A 4 berth (but only two belted seas) it's fully equipped for sleeping, cooking & washing and it's brilliant for us. (Us = kevenh, mrskevenh and two cats (Hannah & Derek))
I'm no idiot and happy to contribute to answering other's queries on the forum.

 

[Blue Knight]

No, not noticed that either.

I think the main beef about the 3,500kg limit is the way that the manufacturers continue to build 4-berth vans with a MIRO (as an example) of 3,200kg before any passengers, bikes, water, awnings, gear is added.

I always think that the Funster brigade is more concerned about the safety and legality of vans rather than the size of the various rigs.

All the best,

Andrew

 

[Guigsy]

Mine is a 6m a-class. It's plated at 3.5t and has a claimed 735kg of payload. And as it doesn't have a garage, just a few small lockers, I'm very confident that I don't need to worry about overloading it. Even with half a tank of water and a full tank of diesel, I can put a fist between the bump-stops and the axle bar because it's so light. It came from Fiat with a 3.65t plate, but I guess that's because a-class cabs are normally built on much bigger motorhomes? It feels like it's over-sprung.

 

[cmcardle75]

Is there a contingent on here that really believes people with 3500kg vans are idiots ? I have a C1 licence but chose such a van.

There seems to be a 'mine has more payload and is bigger and better than yours' group on here and I don't think it's healthy for a forum.

I think you misunderstand. It isn't a willy waving competition, it is just that many (but by no means all) 3500kg motorhomes are built in such a way that they can pretty much only be used by overloading them. This particularly applies to 6 berth ones. Some are produced with such a low payload that just putting two adults and 4 young children and their clothes would overload them. This is before the options lists for solar panels, awnings, cycle carriers, extra leisure batteries etc. The beef is with the manufacturers pretending that such vehicles are practical without a C1 licence and a MAM upgrade.

Really, they should up the 'B' limit to 4500kg, which is far more practical.

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[Jim]

Is there a contingent on here that really believes people with 3500kg vans are idiots ?

I haven't seen anything here at all that would suggest that. Especially when the majority here have vans that's are under 3500kg

 

[Tigger-Tim]

I too have a C1, but am running a 3500Kg van. It's 6.4m long.

My only concern is that the empty van weights about 3120Kg (incl driver), and making sure that I stay within the limits. I think it totally wrong and immoral that dealers sell vans and motorhomes with inadequate payloads. I believe every new van should have it's payload on a sticker on the side.

I may upgrade the weight at some point (can go to 3900Kg without modification according to SvTech) if I need to.

The most extreme I've seen was an AT Apache in my dealer's showroom with a 190Kg payload!!!

 

[kevenh]

! Hold on, thought of something like what the OP may mean.
In discussions like "Driving With Full Water Tanks", Funsters with larger vehicles are dismissive of the question.
Forgetting what it's like to have to watch payload or the percentage of weight full tanks would be on payload.
Graham of Madrid what's your example?

edit: from comments since my 1st post, it is the payload they are most blasé about
edit2: (sorry) added link to the example I mentioned

 

[HKF]

I have a C1 licence but have a 7.3m 3,500kg 6 berth rig. I don't consider myself an idiot and haven't felt that others do, either.....well, maybe one, who went straight into my Ignore List Having what you have is a choice. If it suits you, who cares? And if people do care enough to make you uncomfortable, add them to your Ignore List. Life is too short to let people irritate you. Let them go irritate someone else!

 

[jopparocks]

Is there a contingent on here that really believes people with 3500kg vans are idiots ? I have a C1 licence but chose such a van.

There seems to be a 'mine has more payload and is bigger and better than yours' group on here and I don't think it's healthy for a forum.

I certainly think there is a lot of good advice about payload on here especially the suggestions that new owners of 3500kgs vans need to be aware of how little leeway they have when loading but I've never read anything that suggests sub 3.5 tonners are idiots or that there is a bigger is better group.

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[Puddleduck]

Of our 4 vans the maximum plates were:

1 - unknown, didn't even cross my mind back then (1980s)
2 - 7500 kg
3 - 3500 kg
4 - 3650 kg

We have C1 licenses and will downplate to 3500 kg when the time comes and if required. It was registered at 3650 because we cycle and kayak and we were a little worried about the weight of all the clobber. We now have lighter kayaks so even at 3500 should be legal.

Personally I don't worry about what people have as long as they are aware of payload, legality and safety.

 

[Stealaway]

I think you misunderstand. It isn't a willy waving competition, it is just that many (but by no means all) 3500kg motorhomes are built in such a way that they can pretty much only be used by overloading them.

If you are over 70 and choose not to bother with medicals, 3500kg is all that is available to you.
I think the larger payload only encourages owner to fill it up with just in case 'stuff'
500kg payload is easily do-able for two people if you don't carry loads of spare 'stuff'
You don't bother with spare wheels, breaker bars and bottle jacks.
You only travel with the minimum amount of water and fuel for the journey.

Live life light

 

[Ivory55]

If you are over 70 and choose not to bother with medicals, 3500kg is all that is available to you.
I think the larger payload only encourages owner to fill it up with just in case 'stuff'
500kg payload is easily do-able for two people if you don't carry loads of spare 'stuff'
You don't bother with spare wheels, breaker bars and bottle jacks.
You only travel with the minimum amount of water and fuel for the journey.

Live life light

No spare wheel or jack etc would be alien to me. I know people do I just don’t think I could.

 

[Lenny HB]

The idiots are the manufacturers who produce 3500kg vans with payloads so small they are unable to be used legally. A lot of people buy vans without knowing anything about payloads, same with cars how many check the payload when they buy a car.

 

[cmcardle75]

If you are over 70 and choose not to bother with medicals, 3500kg is all that is available to you.
I think the larger payload only encourages owner to fill it up with just in case 'stuff'
500kg payload is easily do-able for two people if you don't carry loads of spare 'stuff'
You don't bother with spare wheels, breaker bars and bottle jacks.
You only travel with the minimum amount of water and fuel for the journey.

Live life light

Absolutely, 3500kg is easily achievable for a couple. However, it is somewhat marginal for a 6 berth on a rugby tour.

I just looked up the specs for the first 6 berth motorhome I could find. 2965kg MIRO. 3500kg MAM. That 535kg has to include 5 further people, any luggage, optional extras, camping gear, bedding, food, water, etc.

The MIRO is also often a lie. They are allowed a certain allowance on empty weight. Of course, most manufacturers will always be on the heavy side of that allowance. A small difference on the empty weight makes a massive difference on the payload. The maximum 5% extra on the MIRO would be 148kg less for your payload, nearly a 28% reduction.

Now try getting 5 people and their gear (plus the driver's gear) and food/water/bikes/awnings/camping chairs/toys/optional extras into the remaining 387kg.

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[Guigsy]

The idiots are the manufacturers who produce 3500kg vans with payloads so small they are unable to be used legally. A lot of people buy vans without knowing anything about payloads, same with cars how many check the payload when they buy a car.

Example:

Auto-Trail

www.auto-trail.co.uk

Default plating is 3.5t. MIRO is apparently 3140kg. But it's got 6 belted seats. I'm pretty confident that the MIRO doesn't include 6 people. If you filled all the seats, you'd probably go over weight even before you added luggage, food, etc.

 

[Bessy765]

We Bought a new Elddis Aspire at the NEC in 2012, it was advertised as capable of sleeping four but only came with two belted seats. The stated payload was 240 kg but at the show they were offering a free paperwork upgrade to 3650kg even then 400 kg payload soon disappears. It was nice to have a van with plenty of storage space but space and payload don’t mix. We ended up fitting semi air and larger tyres to get both 3850 kg and 2240kg over the rear axle. I don’t differentiate between what size van a person may have if they are happy that is all that matters. We currently have an A class at 4000kg and as we go away for long periods of time (when safe and wise to do so) having the payload that allows this is fine for us. If you want to pull up alongside us in whatever you are driving we would only be to happy to say hi. Mind you now thirteen weeks since I sent my licence off to renew my C1 no sign of it so far That’s one problem sub 3500kg. Don’t face.

 

[chaser]

The idiots are the manufacturers who produce 3500kg vans with payloads so small they are unable to be used legally. A lot of people buy vans without knowing anything about payloads, same with cars how many check the payload when they buy a car.

Our ambulance weighs 2870 with water and diesel full, we have half a ton spare.

 

[nicholsong]

I do not look down on ,500kg MHs but I sometimes put warnings out about what you can do with most of them in terms of camping style.

For example we (two) only wildcamp or use Aires, which may not have any service facilities. Therefore our requirements are -

To leave home with full water and diesel.
Two bicycles
Have clothes for more than one season
Tools
Spare 20lt water
Reference books, food wine etc.

And we want to do this in an 'A' Class with a high quality solid interior, not ply and sandwich construction

We can achieve that(weighbridge checked) in our 3,850kg weight.


I can envisage that people can run genuinely under 3500kg but only by sacrificing some of the factors above, e.g going to campsites arriving with near empty water and filling on arrival, and/or never having more than a half tank of diesel.

It may also be possible in a very lightweight MH without the 'solid' bit, but how long will it last? But even then can one do it with 4 persons(ie 300kg of payload?

After this sort of advice to people they have to make u their own decision according to how they want to use a MH

If the OP feels this is looking down, I plead guilty, but I would feel guilty if I did not point these things out to newbies or those thinking of downsizing.

Geoff

[no time to proof -read]

 

[cmcardle75]

Example:

Auto-Trail

www.auto-trail.co.uk

Default plating is 3.5t. MIRO is apparently 3140kg. But it's got 6 belted seats. I'm pretty confident that the MIRO doesn't include 6 people. If you filled all the seats, you'd probably go over weight even before you added luggage, food, etc.

That's insane. Assuming the 5% MIRO allowance goes their way, the empty van could weigh 3297kg, allowing 203 kg for your 5 passengers and all their stuff.

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[Southdowners]

Is there a contingent on here that really believes people with 3500kg vans are idiots ? I have a C1 licence but chose such a van.

There seems to be a 'mine has more payload and is bigger and better than yours' group on here and I don't think it's healthy for a forum.

If you feel this is the case I wonder if it's down to how you interpret posts? It's easy to misunderstand folk's intentions just by the written word... could it be that someone with a large motorhome is just stating a fact regarding payload, etc?

 

[EzeeRider]

Is there a contingent on here that really believes people with 3500kg vans are idiots ? I have a C1 licence but chose such a van.

There seems to be a 'mine has more payload and is bigger and better than yours' group on here and I don't think it's healthy for a forum.

I have not noticed it either in all the years I have been reading this forum.
ezee

 

[gus-lopez]

If you are over 70 and choose not to bother with medicals, 3500kg is all that is available to you.
I think the larger payload only encourages owner to fill it up with just in case 'stuff'
500kg payload is easily do-able for two people if you don't carry loads of spare 'stuff'
You don't bother with spare wheels, breaker bars and bottle jacks.
You only travel with the minimum amount of water and fuel for the journey.

Live life light

if I had to run like that I wouldn't be bothering.

Our ambulance weighs 2870 with water and diesel full, we have half a ton spare.

what you got in it? mine only weighs in at 2380 inc full fuel & water, & so has 920 kgs spare.

 

[Guigsy]

I do not look down on ,500kg MHs but I sometimes put warnings out about what you can do with most of them in terms of camping style.

For example we (two) only wildcamp or use Aires, which may not have any service facilities. Therefore our requirements are -

To leave home with full water and diesel.
Two bicycles
Have clothes for more than one season
Tools
Spare 20lt water
Reference books, food wine etc.

And we want to do this in an 'A' Class with a high quality solid interior, not ply and sandwich construction

We can achieve that(weighbridge checked) in our 3,850kg weight.


I can envisage that people can run genuinely under 3500kg but only by sacrificing some of the factors above, e.g going to campsites arriving with near empty water and filling on arrival, and/or never having more than a half tank of diesel.

It may also be possible in a very lightweight MH without the 'solid' bit, but how long will it last? But even then can one do it with 4 persons(ie 300kg of payload?

After this sort of advice to people they have to make u their own decision according to how they want to use a MH

If the OP feels this is looking down, I plead guilty, but I would feel guilty if I did not point these things out to newbies or those thinking of downsizing.

Geoff

[no time to proof -read]

We manage that within 3500kg. A-class. 100 litres of water. Full tank of diesel. 2 Bromptons. Large wardrobe. An overhead locker dedicated to the library. All well built too. The compromise is that it's only 6m long and the reason we carry Bromptons is because we squeeze one in each outside locker, no garage.

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[RubyOptics]

I think that Geoff (nicholsong ) put it very well. I've also read the dire warnings about sub 3500kg vans, but I really don't think it's anyone looking down on anyone else, more of a realistic and sage offering of advice from those with a lot of experience.
Our own van is limited to 3500kg and we were very VERY careful with checking each and every vans payload when purchasing our new one. We too saw the sheer numbers of vans advertised as 4 or 6 person and with a payload that would make that illegal. It beggars belief that manufacturers can, in this day and age, advertise vans in this way.
Also be aware that, as Geoff also noted, the way YOU use your van may differ considerably from how other people use theirs. We have 500kg payload available to us as a family of 4 and yet we have no problem whatsoever keeping ourselves and our van legal. We pack a lot lighter than many and maybe do without some of the toys, but I can honestly say this hasn't affected our enjoyment of our vehicle in any way whatsoever.

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[deleted79651]

I have a C1 licence but have a 7.3m 3,500kg 6 berth rig. I don't consider myself an idiot and haven't felt that others do, either.....well, maybe one, who went straight into my Ignore List Having what you have is a choice. If it suits you, who cares? And if people do care enough to make you uncomfortable, add them to your Ignore List. Life is too short to let people irritate you. Let them go irritate someone else!

In the good old days when people in offices photocopied and circulated cartoons and similar 'funnies', instead of getting on with some work [novel idea ...], I had 2 favourites. The first was a Snoopy cartoon, with Snoopy lying on top of his kennel, eyes closed, with a thought bubble 'I've made 400 managerial decisions this morning; every one of them wrong ....'

And the second had a Dennis the Menace like urchin scowling into where the camera would have been, with a speech bubble: 'Every day I'm forced to add another name to the list of people who really p*ss me off!' But that was before the invention of the 'Ignore' button that accompanies the Breath of Fresh Air Club Membership, exclusive to people who get right up my nose ...

Steve [happy with his 3500kg in his own wee world of sweetness, light and anal retentive environment]

 

[sussexlad]

Is there a contingent on here that really believes people with 3500kg vans are idiots ? I have a C1 licence but chose such a van.

There seems to be a 'mine has more payload and is bigger and better than yours' group on here and I don't think it's healthy for a forum.

I would really like to be able to tour fully loaded and legally at 3500Kg. How much does your van weigh when loaded?

 

[DerryW]

Is there a contingent on here that really believes people with 3500kg vans are idiots ? I have a C1 licence but chose such a van.

There seems to be a 'mine has more payload and is bigger and better than yours' group on here and I don't think it's healthy for a forum.

Graham

I personally don't recognise the contingent you refer too. What I do recognise are lots and lots of helpful advice and tips regarding payload. But has I always say, its up to the individual what they do or don't do to enjoy their pride and joy.

 

[138go]

I definitely recommend the 3500kg motorhome. There are so many advantages to something smaller.

 

[deleted79651]

The idiots are the manufacturers who produce 3500kg vans with payloads so small they are unable to be used legally. A lot of people buy vans without knowing anything about payloads, same with cars how many check the payload when they buy a car.

I do, Lenny, but I am a total anal retentive!

I'm happy with our 693kg payload for the purposes of legality and safety [I weighed everything individually, 'cos I'm an anal retentive; have I mentioned that?], and made sure that I would be road legal with a full tank of diesel and a full tank of fresh water and all the food, clothes, tools etc. My grouse is that the 130bhp Euro 5 engine at anything above about 3300kg drinks diesel like a Derv dipsomaniac, and acceleration is measured in hours [I must be the only m/home driver to have been stopped for loitering with intent when driving flat out ...], rather than seconds

But we all have our crosses to bear; and I am Elaine's [as she reminded me only this morning ...]

Steve

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