Storage site fire. Very very lucky.

[nicholsong]

If the guy who caused the fire had insurance on the caravan it may not include Public Liability insurance only for damage to Third Parties in event of a motor accident.

If no relevant insurance to protect him he could be held personally liable for all the damage.

Remember the person causing damage is primarily liable and insurance is only an indemnity of that person's liability.

Geoff

 

[Holly's mum]

It was....41 other vehicles incinerated altogether.

Wow, that's a huge fire and impact. I hope your's and all the other insurance companies paid out okay.

 

[Holly's mum]

Thanks Yvette. I was a bit blasé to be honest but Gill was a bit more concerned. I was envisaging a new van lol.

Not the best way to get a new van
It's all the personal stuff you lose that is the heartbreak as well.

 

[Viennese]

I wonder whether Safegard subrogated against the persons who overloaded the skip, if known. There is a long-standing legal principle established in the case of 'Rylands v. Fletcher' that if somebody accumulates items on a property and those items escape and cause damage to another's property the person accumulating them is liable for the damage.

Geoff

Safeguard weren't interested in that. I sent the CCTV film of things hurtling out of the skip on to my van but they didn't want to know. I assume they put it down to 'Act of God' The skip was placed there by the management for the convenience of people using the storage, and I told Safeguard that, bit it's now mainly containers. They clearly wanted to get rid of vehicles, and I have now left. They never informed us MH owners that they had cancelled their Cassoa membershipo and they won't take 'new' MHs for storage now altho' existing customers can still keep their pitches. I have found somewhere else because they had been so sh***y to me and to another van owner I know.

 

[Jim Schush]

Just started reading this and the penny clicked, my van is about 70 metres from the fire. I think we were very lucky that fire did not spread.

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[pappajohn]

If the guy who caused the fire has let his insurance lapse who will pay for the damage to the other caravans?

The others insurers will sue him through the courts. Could eventually lose his house.

 

[maison]

The others insurers will sue him through the courts. Could eventually lose his house.

That’s what I thought.

We pay what we consider to be a fortune for insurance; travel, house, contents and health but it just requires one major legal judgement to bankrupt you.

 

[peterc10]

I wonder whether Safegard subrogated against the persons who overloaded the skip, if known. There is a long-standing legal principle established in the case of 'Rylands v. Fletcher' that if somebody accumulates items on a property and those items escape and cause damage to another's property the person accumulating them is liable for the damage.

Geoff

Rylands v Fletcher won't help. Both the skip and the motorhome were on the same property. And the motorhome was being stored there under a contract, so it will be the terms of that contract that decide who is at risk.

 

[Pausim]

I think it is a mistake to assume that there is always someone to blame. If it was a genuine accident and not foreseeable or negligent the uninsured neighbours and other insurers might have difficulty finding anyone to sue.

 

[TheBig1]

No you have calmed down and no longer stressed that the van may be destroyed, can I suggest you spend some time meticulously checking the paint and plastics on your van that were facing the fire. Look for blisters and or distortions in the paint and plastics and discolouring of the headlamps.

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[Marty Gilly and Pup]

No you have calmed down and no longer stressed that the van may be destroyed, can I suggest you spend some time meticulously checking the paint and plastics on your van that were facing the fire. Look for blisters and or distortions in the paint and plastics and discolouring of the headlamps.

Doesn’t appear any obvious damage as such. I think the wind direction has saved us on this occasion. I’ll look closer at the weekend in some good light. It’s raised a few questions though around what the site allows in terms of work etc on the vans. We’ve always brought it home and therefore nearer to some tools and power for any cleaning and modifications. I reckon on site work might be banned now and that could include the mobile engineers who we see there often.

 

[Minxy]

Doesn’t appear any obvious damage as such. I think the wind direction has saved us on this occasion. I’ll look closer at the weekend in some good light. It’s raised a few questions though around what the site allows in terms of work etc on the vans. We’ve always brought it home and therefore nearer to some tools and power for any cleaning and modifications. I reckon on site work might be banned now and that could include the mobile engineers who we see there often.

The mobile engineers could move the vehicles/caravans to an area away from the others to carry out their work thus reducing the risk of any issues whilst they are doing stuff. As for owners doing stuff, then they should do the same IF the site allows work after this.

 

[jockaneezer]

The mobile guys should have public liability insurance too and risk assess each job ?

 

[Marty Gilly and Pup]

The mobile guys should have public liability insurance too and risk assess each job ?

Which is all good. However as a user or site owner for example I’m now considering a few risks there:
Has he paid his insurance? Does it cover 400 vans? If his risk assessment covers my property have I seen and agreed to it etc etc

 

[Captain Yoghurtpot]

If the guy who caused the fire has let his insurance lapse who will pay for the damage to the other caravans?

Surely each owner affected with ill claim on their own insurance, won't they?
Not sure if caravan insurance is same as motor insurance with a who to blame scenario, and insurance company looking for who to claim from .

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[Chil]

Sorry, what are tuggers?

 

[Ian Bosman]

A caravan is pulled by a tug eg a car therefore if you have a caravan your are a tugger. Had one of several over 40+ years without any serious mishap, occasional blow out couple of times.

 

[Ian Bosman]

I got a text message from a colleague after work yesterday with a picture of flames and black smoke rising from the 400 unit storage depot where our van is kept. On the photo our Moho with black front is in the picture right next to the fire!!!! OMG!!!!! Quick trip down to the site confirms this. 6 vans (all tuggers actually by chance) destroyed completely. Ours looks 100% ok at first glance but we’ll have it out over the weekend for a full check. Although sorned our van remains insured of course thankfully. The site is in Elland near Halifax. Seems a chap in one of the vans was putting some new Formica tops in. Obviously highly inflammable solvents in use. Kerboom. Not sure how his own insurance will look at it??
I would say this proves something about safe pitch distancing on rallies if nothing else!
View attachment 389412View attachment 389413View attachment 389414

Next time he will read the instructions on the tin especially the bit about naked flames near the adhesive. I recall my head of department in 1964 telling me about his neighbour trying to stick Formica without leaving it 15 minutes for the "contact" adhesive to work. Had not read the instructions, naturally. Even smoking a fag is dangerous with the stuff.

 

[Ian Bosman]

I got a text message from a colleague after work yesterday with a picture of flames and black smoke rising from the 400 unit storage depot where our van is kept. On the photo our Moho with black front is in the picture right next to the fire!!!! OMG!!!!! Quick trip down to the site confirms this. 6 vans (all tuggers actually by chance) destroyed completely. Ours looks 100% ok at first glance but we’ll have it out over the weekend for a full check. Although sorned our van remains insured of course thankfully. The site is in Elland near Halifax. Seems a chap in one of the vans was putting some new Formica tops in. Obviously highly inflammable solvents in use. Kerboom. Not sure how his own insurance will look at it??
I would say this proves something about safe pitch distancing on rallies if nothing else!
View attachment 389412View attachment 389413View attachment 389414

I like the air cooled Volks next to yours, not many round anymore. Engines could be a pig as they were know to break the exhaust valve on number 3 cylinder as it got least cooling until VW came up with a solution with a think sulphur embedded into the stem. I had a Variant, 1967 model which broke a valve in the middle if the Isle of Axholme about a mile and a half out of Crowle and in those days iy was a case of a long walk back to a phone to report to the AA and a long walk back to the car. New half engine installed all within one week.

 

[gus-lopez]

Surely each owner affected with ill claim on their own insurance, won't they?

Why should they? Some might only have 3rd party . The one who started it should be claimed against.

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[Pausim]

Why should they? Some might only have 3rd party . The one who started it should be claimed against.

Just because the fire started in that caravan doesn’t mean he is automatically liable. He might well be responsible but I doubt his insurers will accept liability without a fight. They may just say we insure one caravan, not the whole site. If he is not insured a prolonged legal battle is likely and the claims might bankrupt him, then you possibly get nothing. Claim off your own insurers and let them sort it out.

 

[Landy Andy]

Do you have to have a caravan insured?

 

[maison]

Surely each owner affected with ill claim on their own insurance, won't they?
Not sure if caravan insurance is same as motor insurance with a who to blame scenario, and insurance company looking for who to claim from .

If you have to claim on your own insurance you are likely to lose your NCB through no fault of your own, I would have thought.

 

[gus-lopez]

They may just say we insure one caravan, not the whole site.

Yes they do but the same as a road accidnet where one is complety at fault they 'll be getting the bill for everyone. That's whay I like it here as it is insurance how it used to be & still should be in the UK . No knock for knock.You cause it you pay the whole lot.

Claim off your own insurers and let them sort it out.

Only if you can otherwise you 've got to go after them.

Do you have to have a caravan insured?

No ,that is the problem & why I would never use a site for storage or camping with caravans on as you have no idea if they start a disaster whether they can afford it. Same as getting hit by a push bike you have to sue them personally.

 

[Chris]

Glad your van is ok

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[Vipar]

I am searching for new insurance ATM I have been told by Axia that I am covered even if the other party is not insured. With European repatriation and all the usual things £396.21. For 180 days per year 90 days in one trip. Still lookingf

 

[Jonny1953]

People talking about SORN and cancelling insurance, one of the terms at my previous storage said:

5. All caravans motorhomes etc are stored on the understanding that they are insured at all times, to cover any loss arising for their owner and including third party cover, for any loss they may cause, as the storage site owner shall not be held liable for any damage or loss how ever so caused.

Also only small repairs were allowed to be carried out at the storage facilities and not sure whether fitting new formica tops would have been classed as "minor"

7. Small minor repairs can be done on your caravan whilst on site. This is providing the customers are doing the work themselves and are not causing a nuisance to other storage customers. Under no circumstances will trades be allowed on to the site (repair companies, caravan dealers, valeting agents etc) without prior arrangement.

I wouldn't know if your storage site or the site in this post would have similar clauses but it would definitely be worth checking the terms before cancelling any insurance or carrying out any repairs.

 

[Marty Gilly and Pup]

I like the air cooled Volks next to yours, not many round anymore. Engines could be a pig as they were know to break the exhaust valve on number 3 cylinder as it got least cooling until VW came up with a solution with a think sulphur embedded into the stem. I had a Variant, 1967 model which broke a valve in the middle if the Isle of Axholme about a mile and a half out of Crowle and in those days iy was a case of a long walk back to a phone to report to the AA and a long walk back to the car. New half engine installed all within one week.

Never seen it move. Looks pretty unused too but possibly workable.

 

[boxtraveller]

According to a letter sent by the owners of another storage site not so far away, the fire destroyed five vans and was caused by an owner using a highly flammable adhesive and then leaning back onto his cooker and inadvertently pressing the igniter button for the hob, whose spark was enough to start the devastating chain of events.
Just so easy to do if not aware or maybe even under the influence of said adhesive fumes.

 

[Pausim]

According to a letter sent by the owners of another storage site not so far away, the fire destroyed five vans and was caused by an owner using a highly flammable adhesive and then leaning back onto his cooker and inadvertently pressing the igniter button for the hob, whose spark was enough to start the devastating chain of events.
Just so easy to do if not aware or maybe even under the influence of said adhesive fumes.

That sounds like a genuine accident and not one that would necessarily leave him, or his insurers, liable to third party negligence claims. I hope they were all properly insured.

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