Solar and Sargent, wiring query

[Al n Val]

hi everyone

solar panel wiring query

i’ve just added a 140w solar panel to my 2018 Autotrail Comanche which as some of you guys may know has an existing 100w panel wired via the Sargent EC700 unit, i’ve kept the new system separate via a Victron 71/15 smart controller straight to one of the 2 X leisure 95AH AGM batteries. Now what i’m not sure about is this, the batteries as standard look like they are wired individually back to the Sargent unit, not sure why tbh, i’m thinking they must be bridged internally so it charges them both together, is this correct do you know? The batteries are not connected to each other in the battery cabinet btw.

Also do you think i should disconnect the original panel from the Sargent unit and wire in parallel or series with the new panel and totally disconnect them from the Sargent unit and connect both to the Victron, and if I were to do this would i still get the over head hab door panel readout like below or leave well alone.

I must admit i do like looking at the levels whilst its parked in storage via the My Autotrail connect method, this allows me to see everything more or less even where its parked.

cheers and thanks in advance

Al

 

[IanRJ]

I’m doing something similar. If you disconnect the 100w solar panel from the Sargent then you will lose the ability to charge the engine battery from solar.

The batteries are paralleled in the Sargent box, but you can parallel them at the batteries too.

The extra solar through the Victron May confuse the Sargent battery measurement.

I’m thinking leave the 100w panel attached to Sargent and the vehicle battery selected when in storage, the other through Victron to hab batteries, switch the Sargent to Smart Charge when using the van and vehicle battery is fully charged.

Let us know how you get on?

IanRJ

 

[Kannon Fodda]

You should be able to download the handbook from the Autotrail website. That will have a wiring diagram of sorts in the rear. But if it's anything like the v-line range it will show an earlier version f the Sargent unit. Even so it may well indicate the connectivity intended for solar into or through the Sargent, rather than direct to the battery itself. Sargent themselves may also be able to give some advice

 

[IanRJ]

BTW 10amp max on the Sargent for Solar.

 

[Whiskeymac]

I had an Autotrail Savannah which I had a second 120 solar fitted by Road-Pro, they had to fit a second regulator as they said the original Sargent Panel Regulator was not man enough to take both panels, it was an 09 vehicle

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[PhilandMena]

I have a similar set up on my Autotrail. 1 x 125 W S.P. wired into the Sargent system (bypassed Sargent factory fitted regulator and installed a 10 AMP MPPT regulator, otherwise no wiring change. Cab & Hab battery maintained and control panel display as per original set up). I have also fitted a 120 W S.P. directly to the Hab batteries with its own regulator. This does not have a negative effect on the other regulator or the Sargent display and they all work together without any difficulties. (I also have a BMI Battery monitor). I had a second leisure battery fitted when I purchased from new and batteries were wired together.

 

[Al n Val]

You should be able to download the handbook from the Autotrail website. That will have a wiring diagram of sorts in the rear. But if it's anything like the v-line range it will show an earlier version f the Sargent unit. Even so it may well indicate the connectivity intended for solar into or through the Sargent, rather than direct to the battery itself. Sargent themselves may also be able to give some advice

we looked at those tbh, thanks for mentioning

tbh those need updating as they are from the EC500 unit from 2011 when you look at it for the Comanche brochure, good idea though

thanks

Al

 

[Al n Val]

BTW 10amp max on the Sargent for Solar.

thanks Ian

we found that out before installing the new setup hence doing it that way, at least this way I can add a 3rd panel if necessary

Could maybe add an inverted as well

 

[Al n Val]

I had an Autotrail Savannah which I had a second 120 solar fitted by Road-Pro, they had to fit a second regulator as they said the original Sargent Panel Regulator was not man enough to take both panels, it was an 09 vehicle

yeah that’s why i went for a totally separate system, that way if 1 fails i’ve a backup

thanks

Al

 

[Al n Val]

I have a similar set up on my Autotrail. 1 x 125 W S.P. wired into the Sargent system (bypassed Sargent factory fitted regulator and installed a 10 AMP MPPT regulator, otherwise no wiring change. Cab & Hab battery maintained and control panel display as per original set up). I have also fitted a 120 W S.P. directly to the Hab batteries with its own regulator. This does not have a negative effect on the other regulator or the Sargent display and they all work together without any difficulties. (I also have a BMI Battery monitor). I had a second leisure battery fitted when I purchased from new and batteries were wired together.

hi Phil

mmhh! this is a possible route to take in the future, can you explain a little bit more regarding the bypass of the Sargent unit, if this is no longer in the solar setup are you still able to use the smart charge feature on the over hab door display, if so how?

edit; just a thought, have you got the EC700 Sargent unit or a different one with a separate controller as mine is built into the EC700 unit

I‘m a newbie to all this so still learning and theirs a lot to learn

thanks

Al

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[PhilandMena]

hi Phil

mmhh! this is a possible route to take in the future, can you explain a little bit more regarding the bypass of the Sargent unit, if this is no longer in the solar setup are you still able to use the smart charge feature on the over hab door display, if so how?

edit; just a thought, have you got the EC700 Sargent unit or a different one with a separate controller as mine is built into the EC700 unit

I‘m a newbie to all this so still learning and theirs a lot to learn

thanks

Al

I have an EC500. This unit automatically switches between cab and leisure battery, hence keeping one S.P. connected to the Sargent system and the other bypassing it all together. Sargent system knows state of charge with both S.P being connected to leisure batteries and displays correct charge.charging status which is confirmed with my BM1 battery monitor.

 

[Al n Val]

I have an EC500. This unit automatically switches between cab and leisure battery, hence keeping one S.P. connected to the Sargent system and the other bypassing it all together. Sargent system knows state of charge with both S.P being connected to leisure batteries and displays correct charge.charging status which is confirmed with my BM1 battery monitor.

hi Phil

sorry I didn’t read your first post correctly, it’s this bit that’s got me studying

”bypassed Sargent factory fitted regulator and installed a 10 AMP MPPT regulator, otherwise no wiring change. Cab & Hab battery maintained and control panel display as per original set up.”

can I ask how you did that please and what controller have you used, in other words was this done behind the EC500 where all the connections are made and if so is a photo or 2 possible or a diagram, no worries if not

cheers

Al

 

[PhilandMena]

hi Phil

sorry I didn’t read your first post correctly, it’s this bit that’s got me studying

”bypassed Sargent factory fitted regulator and installed a 10 AMP MPPT regulator, otherwise no wiring change. Cab & Hab battery maintained and control panel display as per original set up.”

can I ask how you did that please and what controller have you used, in other words was this done behind the EC500 where all the connections are made and if so is a photo or 2 possible or a diagram, no worries if not

cheers

Al

My Autotrail as new had a factory fitted solar regulator fitted to the rear of the EC 500 when purchased. When I installed my first S.P. I wired it to this regulator. the connections are easy peasy, Job done. Display readings above hab door then showed which batteries were being charged by S.P. and how many Amps going in. Last year I purchased a MPPT regulator and fixed it next to the EC 500. I then disconnected the cables from the EC 500 S.P. regulator and connected them to the new regulator. The only change to the Sargent wiring was that one regulator was replaced with another. I have left the original regulator in situ as a back up.

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[IanRJ]

My Autotrail as new had a factory fitted solar regulator fitted to the rear of the EC 500 when purchased. When I installed my first S.P. I wired it to this regulator. the connections are easy peasy, Job done. Display readings above hab door then showed which batteries were being charged by S.P. and how many Amps going in. Last year I purchased a MPPT regulator and fixed it next to the EC 500. I then disconnected the cables from the EC 500 S.P. regulator and connected them to the new regulator. The only change to the Sargent wiring was that one regulator was replaced with another. I have left the original regulator in situ as a back up.

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Did you wire from the mppt you fitted back through the Sargent or direct to the hab batteries?

 

[PhilandMena]

Did you wire from the mppt you fitted back through the Sargent or direct to the hab batteries?

I took the wires from the Sargent regulator and connected them to the MPPT regulator. The second S.P. was wired directly to the Hab batteries via a regulator and did not connect to the Sargent system at all. Does this make sense for you ?

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[IanRJ]

I took the wires from the Sargent regulator and connected them to the MPPT regulator. The second S.P. was wired directly to the Hab batteries via a regulator and did not connect to the Sargent system at all. Does this make sense for you ?

Yes of course, I thought you had said that you retained the ability to switch the solar charging between the vehicle and hab batteries though - I must have crossed my wires (no pun intended lol).

 

[PhilandMena]

Yes of course, I thought you had said that you retained the ability to switch the solar charging between the vehicle and hab batteries though - I must have crossed my wires (no pun intended lol).

I have retained the ability to automatically charge both cab and hab batteries as this is not done by the regulator but by the Sargent EC500. Two wires directly from the S.P. go into the regulator. (MPPT or Sargent regulator) 2 wires from EC500 go into the battery connection on the MPPT or Sargent regulator. The 2 wires from the EC500 are via a connection block in the EC500 and this is how the switching of battery charging and read outs on the control panel above the door are controlled.

 

[IanRJ]

I have retained the ability to automatically charge both cab and hab batteries as this is not done by the regulator but by the Sargent EC500. Two wires directly from the S.P. go into the regulator. (MPPT or Sargent regulator) 2 wires from EC500 go into the battery connection on the MPPT or Sargent regulator. The 2 wires from the EC500 are via a connection block in the EC500 and this is how the switching of battery charging and read outs on the control panel above the door are controlled.

I’ll definitely need to draft this out to get my head around it! But one final question if I may. What then is the final amperage going through the Sargent?

 

[Al n Val]

I’ll definitely need to draft this out to get my head around it! But one final question if I may. What then is the final amperage going through the Sargent?

I’m in the same boat Ian, i’m keen to get my head around exactly how Phil has done this, it sounds really easy but i’m not getting it lol

 

[PhilandMena]

I’ll definitely need to draft this out to get my head around it! But one final question if I may. What then is the final amperage going through the Sargent?

That will be dependant on the size of the Solar Panel and the strength of the sun. I have never managed to get above 7 Amps through the Sargent system with my 125 W panel, even when down in Morocco. On average, I'm getting about 5 Amps max, maybe a tad more. I reckon you would be OK with a panel as big as 180 W even though the maths says it will pump out more than 10 Amps.

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[IanRJ]

That will be dependant on the size of the Solar Panel and the strength of the sun. I have never managed to get above 7 Amps through the Sargent system with my 125 W panel, even when down in Morocco. On average, I'm getting about 5 Amps max, maybe a tad more. I reckon you would be OK with a panel as big as 180 W even though the maths says it will pump out more than 10 Amps.

Thanks Phil - I had thought you fitted a second CP but I obviously misread your post. Makes sense now. Great info thanks. BTW 180w panel in the heat of Spain (where I use mine) will certainly be over 10amps.

 

[PhilandMena]

I have fitted a second regulator ! Over 10 amps with 1 x 180 S.P. That's a first for me.
Safe travels.

 

[IanRJ]

I have fitted a second regulator ! Over 10 amps with 1 x 180 S.P. That's a first for me.
Safe travels.

If I'm not miscalculating 180w / 12v = 15 amps? Is that incorrect ? - its been a long day already - took the MoHo in for service with all of the faf, masks, face shields, talking in the wind over 20 feet apart. That was a first!

 

[PhilandMena]

If I'm not miscalculating 180w / 12v = 15 amps? Is that incorrect ? - its been a long day already - took the MoHo in for service with all of the faf, masks, face shields, talking in the wind over 20 feet apart. That was a first!

Your math is correct ! However, you will never achieve that performance in the real world.

 

[IanRJ]

Really? - I suspect in UK you might hit 40-50% of the quoted performance of a 180w panel on the best sunny day, but in Spain or Portugal you will certainly achieve 10 amps - that's only 66/70% of its quoted performance and you might even spike at 80%. Very dangerous if your controller is limited to 10 amps! I believe there was a Funster on here (just a week or two ago) saying they melted their controller with 180/200w panel attached!

But back to your set-up. From what you have stated you now have a single 125w panel wired to a new MPPT controller, then from the battery out terminal of the controller back to your Sargent box?

If that is correct - was that simply to increase the performance of the PV (better controller performance)?

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[PhilandMena]

Really? - I suspect in UK you might hit 40-50% of the quoted performance of a 180w panel on the best sunny day, but in Spain or Portugal you will certainly achieve 10 amps - that's only 66/70% of its quoted performance and you might even spike at 80%. Very dangerous if your controller is limited to 10 amps! I believe there was a Funster on here (just a week or two ago) saying they melted their controller with 180/200w panel attached! Wotever !

But back to your set-up. From what you have stated you now have a single 125w panel wired to a new MPPT controller, then from the battery out terminal of the controller back to your Sargent box? Correct!

If that is correct - was that simply to increase the performance of the PV (better controller performance)? Yes!