Seatbelts, no seatbelts? and seatbelts in Europe.

Ozmosis

Free Member
Jan 8, 2018
5
0
Funster No
51,907
Is it legal to have people sitting in the back on a camper without a seatbelt if there isn't one avaliabe? I read that somewhere but I dont know if it's still the case. so what's the legality of having passengers in the back, do they need seatbelts, and does this differ a lot througout europe? I've been hitch hiking for the best part of 5 years, and I really wanna pick up hitch hikers when I'm travelling Europe, but I'd like to do so legally.
 
Jul 29, 2013
6,920
9,231
Salisbury
Funster No
27,215
MH
Hymer B678DL A class
Exp
since 2011
I don’t think I would be happy having an unbelted passenger in the van and that’s just for my piece of mind,if you were to ask yourself the question should I have an accident and said passenger was injured or god forbid killed how would you feel?
 
Upvote 0

TheBig1

LIFE MEMBER
Nov 27, 2011
15,183
30,401
Dorset
Funster No
19,048
MH
A class
Exp
many many years! since I was a kid
I don’t think I would be happy having an unbelted passenger in the van and that’s just for my piece of mind,if you were to ask yourself the question should I have an accident and said passenger was injured or god forbid killed how would you feel?
or be sued for damages

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Upvote 0
OP
O

Ozmosis

Free Member
Jan 8, 2018
5
0
Funster No
51,907
I'd rather not it that way, but I'm just concerned about the legality, If there are stringent safety hoops t jump through it could be a big job, or just a case of paying a chap a few quid to fit seat belts (or doing it myself)
 
Upvote 0

Badknee

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 25, 2014
6,116
213,999
notloB
Funster No
33,046
MH
Hobby 750 tag.
Exp
Living the dream.
I'd rather not it that way, but I'm just concerned about the legality, If there are stringent safety hoops t jump through it could be a big job, or just a case of paying a chap a few quid to fit seat belts (or doing it myself)
A few hundred quid would be more like it. Our Hobby has rear belts and their fastened to a rigid metal frame system bolted to the chassis. You need the V5 changing too as it will probably show two persons on it.
 
Upvote 0
Dec 10, 2013
3,058
5,868
South Staffs
Funster No
29,333
MH
Pilote Sensation P740GJ
Exp
Since 2013
I'd rather not it that way, but I'm just concerned about the legality, If there are stringent safety hoops t jump through it could be a big job, or just a case of paying a chap a few quid to fit seat belts (or doing it myself)
I wouldn’t think you insurance would be happy should something happen to an unbelted passenger.
One other point, it is not a simple job to retro fit seatbelts.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Upvote 0
Oct 2, 2008
3,959
6,373
J10 M40
Funster No
4,247
MH
Bucher Duro 6x6 motorhome
Exp
since 1968
If seatbelts are fitted they must be worn , thats about the end of it .
Children is another matter .not allowed without belt under 3 .
The law is however a bit of a fudge 2007 was required that designated seats for travel have belts .
There is the possibility of carrying unbelted persons being prosecuted as dangerous ,
but not a seatbelt offence . Its like A frame law/lack of .
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Minxy Girl

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 22, 2007
26,062
42,415
E Yorks
Funster No
149
MH
Carthago Cmpct i-138
Exp
Since 1996 we've had Elddis, Swift, Rapido, Rimor, Chausson MHs and Autocruise & Globecar PVCs
What determine this is normally 2 things, firsly what your V5C says it is legally permitted to carry and secondly what your insurance policy says as they often ask when you take out insurance how many belted passenger seats there are (plus the driver) and will only cover you if any passengers are in the belted seats therefore if you carry people anywhere else you would in effect be braking your contract with them and run the risk of not having insurance cover at all.

If you have an older MH you may not have restrictions on your V5C so the insurance will be the thing that determines how many you can carry, but that doesn't mean it is safe to carry anyone not in a belted seat, that's for you, and them, to decide for themselves but you could open yourself up to being sued after an accident if an unbelted passenger is injured, personally I wouldn't do it, but that's up to you.
 
Upvote 0
Apr 11, 2015
3,904
25,871
hull
Funster No
35,812
MH
Laika Ecovip 300
Exp
since 1988 with breaks until 2009
If you had ever nursed someone who was injured through not wearing a seatbelt you would not be asking this question.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Upvote 0

TheBig1

LIFE MEMBER
Nov 27, 2011
15,183
30,401
Dorset
Funster No
19,048
MH
A class
Exp
many many years! since I was a kid
if you fit a seatbelt, it is reasonable for any passenger to assume it will protect them in an accident. so any injury arising from a defective installation would leave the installer personally liable. because of this it is near impossible to find anyone stupid enough to try retrofitting seatbelts and sign them off as safe
 
Upvote 0

Minxy Girl

LIFE MEMBER
Aug 22, 2007
26,062
42,415
E Yorks
Funster No
149
MH
Carthago Cmpct i-138
Exp
Since 1996 we've had Elddis, Swift, Rapido, Rimor, Chausson MHs and Autocruise & Globecar PVCs
If you had ever nursed someone who was injured through not wearing a seatbelt you would not be asking this question.
I haven't had to do that but my nephew died as a consequence of his aorta being damaged as he hadn't been wearing a seat belt when he crashed (no air bag) so he hit the steering wheel.
 
Upvote 0
Jul 5, 2013
9,914
10,458
Tunbridge Wells
Funster No
26,797
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2013
I agree with others who say it is rarely possible to safely retrofit seat belts. But to answer your question about legality in Europe is impossible to answer, because each country has their own laws about such matters and it is no good quoting UK law because that will not apply.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Upvote 0
Aug 18, 2014
18,309
79,789
Lorca,Murcia,Spain
Funster No
32,898
MH
Transit PVC
Exp
6 years since restarting
Here if there are belts they have to be used. The log book states how many can legally be carried regardless of whether there are belts for them. Mine is legally allowed to carry 4 but only has the 2 front seat belts. The insurance companies here cannot refuse to insure for less than what is on the log book, even if they do not want to.
I actually saw a MH for sale recently based on a Mk 1 Ducato , a coach built, that had the capacity to carry 8 on the log book.But only 2 front seat belts.
 
Upvote 0

Frazzle

Free Member
Mar 29, 2017
94
62
maidstone kent
Funster No
47,954
MH
09 AutoSleeper Berkshire
Exp
im a newbie
Department for Transport:

"There is no current legal requirement to have seat belts fitted to sidefacing seats, or seats that make up the accommodation area in motor caravans, which are normally used only when the vehicle is stationary and are not designated as travelling seats. Seat belts are not designed to be used with side-facing seats and, although it is not illegal to use them, with or without seat belts, we would not advise that they are used. Seat belts on these seats may help to prevent the wearer being thrown around the vehicle or from being ejected, but in a frontal crash they can increase injury risk by subjecting vulnerable parts of the body to higher loads than belts used on forward facing seats. Our advice is that passengers are safest in a forward or rearward facing seat equipped with a lap belt or, preferably, a three-point belt. Any seat belts fitted must comply with the latest British or European standards and be marked accordingly with either the 'e', 'E' or BS 'Kitemark'. The seat belt anchorage points should also be designed so that they will be capable of withstanding the high forces of an impact. We strongly recommend that they are installed professionally by qualified persons (such as at a commercial garage or seat belt specialist). Seat belt wearing regulations require all seat belts to be worn where they are fitted. You also ought to be aware that if the police see people being carried in the rear of a vehicle in what they consider to be a dangerous manner, then they have powers that will enable them to prosecute. They do use this to deal with adults or children not using seat belts in the rear of vehicles."
 
Upvote 0

scbunurse

Free Member
Jan 17, 2018
84
52
Inverness
Funster No
52,012
MH
Test driving tomorrow !!!
Exp
Newbie
This was why we have ended up buying a 6 berth van for two of us. We naively thought that we could buy a four berth and then have an awning for those times that we took the grandchildren. We didn't realise that you usually only have the same number of seatbelts as there are berths and strangely, sometimes fewer. After much research we realised that the only way to safely transport them was to buy a MH with enough travelling seats for all of them. A big hit to the wallet but what price a life?
 
Upvote 0
Jun 17, 2012
2,690
8,208
North Essex
Funster No
21,517
MH
Autotrail Delaware
Exp
>8 but <9
Another consideration is that if you were involved in a head-on collision would you want the hitch-hiker's body coming forward at such a velocity as to break your frigging neck?
May be softer than the fridge, cooker or micro-wave :whistle:

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Upvote 0

WSandME

Free Member
Aug 9, 2016
368
452
Wigan-ish
Funster No
44,498
MH
Hymer B660 Bestline
Exp
SInce 2006
Seat belt wearing regulations require all seat belts to be worn where they are fitted
This is a most unreasonable regulation! We have four seat belts in our MH (six in the previous one), but as there are only two of us, having to press-gang another two people to use the remaining belts is always a problem: you can never find hitchhikers when you need them!


;)
 
Upvote 0
Oct 20, 2015
1,600
2,315
Europe
Funster No
39,680
MH
PVC
This is a most unreasonable regulation! We have four seat belts in our MH (six in the previous one), but as there are only two of us, having to press-gang another two people to use the remaining belts is always a problem: you can never find hitchhikers when you need them!


;)

Can't you wear two each?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Upvote 0
Dec 24, 2014
5,058
24,062
Hurstpierpoint. West Sussex.
Funster No
34,553
MH
Compass Navigator
Exp
Ever since Mother was a lad.
At great length I looked into retro-fitting seat belts to forward facing seats. In short it really must be done professionally, normally with a supplementary under-seat steel cage or frame secured to a strengthened floor. If I remember correctly (it was a couple of years ago) there are technical spec's for these which are defined in the Motor vehicles (Construction and Use) regulations. Several firms specialise in fitting extra belts and the one quote I received was around £750. At an MOT the tester would check the seat belt arrangement although he might not look under the seat unless it was evidently a retro-fit belt.
I have occasionally transported a bunch of biker pals a couple of miles from a camp site to a local pub (I don't drink alcohol) in unbelted side-facing seats.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Upvote 0
Top