Problems while parked, paricularly re. electrical system? (1 Viewer)

[popotla]

My vehicle has an 80 Ah AGM battery, two Lithium-Ion 100 Ah batteries and 2 x 110W solar panels.

Due to an accident I had, resulting in not being able to get to it, let alone drive, it's been parked up since the beginning of September (solar panels uncovered) and will remain so until mid-February. At present a friend is starting the engine once every one-to-two weeks, running it for perhaps 20 minutes. He also moves it slightly so as to change the pressure point on the tyres. The water tanks and pump, and cabin heater - and the taps - have been drained.

The vehicle is new. I was told, on collection, to plug into the mains for 8-12 hours, once every two months (minimum) but because it's parked where there's no electrical supply, this hasn't been done.

Under these circumstances, is there any risk of damage/deterioration to components - I particularly have in mind the electrical system - between now and mid February (the next two months)?

 

[Badknee]

I’ve just had two leisure batteries destroyed because they wearnt put through the three cycles they need. First is on hookup that takes them to 14.6volts. Fully charged on ehu in float mode 13.4v then the third off ehu down to 12.3v
If at all possible hooked up to a generator may help prolong the life of your batteries.

 

[autorouter]

I would think that 2 x 110W solar panels will easily produce enough power to keep the batteries topped up and in prime condition.

That's assuming the solar charge controller is a good one. Does it have suitable settings for charging AGM and Lithium batteries? Even if it doesn't have special settings, it's going to keep the batteries charged to 80% or more. That's enough to avoid any damage due to excessively low state of charge.

In some motorhomes the starter battery is not charged by the solar controller, so you would need to check up and eliminate that possibility. The best way would be to ask your friend to take a multimeter reading of the starter and leisure batteries, before he starts the engine for its periodic run.If the voltage of both starter and leisure batteries is over 13 volts then I'd be pretty sure that both sets of batteries are being charged OK.

 

[Spriddler]

Under these circumstances, is there any risk of damage/deterioration to components - I particularly have in mind the electrical system - between now and mid February (the next two months)?

In short, No.
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But as already said, you need to keep a check on the state of the batteries.
Seriously, mouse damage can be problematic if the m/h is stored for long periods. Just make sure that nothing is open enough for them to get inside.

 

[Lenny HB]

Batteries should be ok with the solar providing it's all been fitted and set up correctly.
What is more worrying is running the engine on tickover for 20 Min something you should never do with modern diesels. Stand a good chance if wrecking the CAT & DPF, doesn't do the engine much good with as it can glaze the bores. Problem is modern diesels never get up to operating temperature on tickover. It needs to be taken for a drive to get everything up to operating temperature.

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[popotla]

(autorouter) That's assuming the solar charge controller is a good one. Does it have suitable settings for charging AGM and Lithium batteries?

I don't know about the quality of the controller but my vehicle is well-built and of good quality. So I can say "the controller is probably good". It must, I think, have suitable settings for charging AGM and lithium batteries.

The battery charger is a VBCS 60/40/430 Triple Votronic.



and a Triple VBCS 430 charging converter is, I understand, also fitted. I don't know what the difference between these two items is but they're listed separately on the specification sheet.

(Badknee) I’ve just had two leisure batteries destroyed because they wearnt put through the three cycles they need. First is on hookup that takes them to 14.6volts. Fully charged on ehu in float mode 13.4v then the third off ehu down to 12.3v

Some of this is a bit beyond me, I'm afraid. However, in the cabin there's a control panel which displays the voltages for the starter battery/leisure batteries/solar panels.

Hooking up to a generator is difficult.

 

[Reallyretired]

You don't say what your solar panels are. My batteries, domestic and starter, are kept fully charged all winter by my 4x100w panels (as long as we don't have snow)
Also you should get your friend to drive it a bit, I usually just run mine up to the next roundabout and back which is 8 miles approx. Enough to warm it up properly. A good run on a 70mph road can help keep the DPF sorted.

 

[popotla]

(Lenny HB) What is more worrying is running the engine on tickover for 20 Min something you should never do with modern diesels. Stand a good chance if wrecking the CAT & DPF, doesn't do the engine much good with as it can glaze the bores. Problem is modern diesels never get up to operating temperature on tickover. It needs to be taken for a drive to get everything up to operating temperature.

Worrying indeed. The problem is that it can't at present be taken for a drive. The insurance is only for me. My friend who's taking care of it doesn't even have a driving licence.

This starting up is what we've been doing for the past three-and-a-half months, which sounds like a long time. Is it better not to run it at all? Can it be run for long enough to get it up to operating temperature without actually taking it out? What are the alternatives?

 

[WillH]

I think you will be okay, worst case scenario is that the batteries may go belly up. Not the end of the world is it, just get new batteries. Hope you get back to full health soon and are able to travel in your van.

 

[popotla]

(Really retired) You don't say what your solar panels are.

There are two, each 110W.

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[popotla]

Thanks for your good wishes, WillH.

I think you will be okay, worst case scenario is that the batteries may go belly up. Not the end of the world is it, just get new batteries.

Except that the lithium-ions cost €1,450 each (and the AGM €495).

 

[pappajohn]

Thanks for your good wishes, WillH.

I think you will be okay, worst case scenario is that the batteries may go belly up. Not the end of the world is it, just get new batteries.

Except that the lithium-ions cost €1,450 each (and the AGM €495).

Almost irrelevant to this thread but if the lithium were to fail I would fall back on lead acid batteries with a tried and proven track record.
€3000 would buy 25 to 30 fla batteries which, fitted in pairs with normal use and an average 3 year life, will last the best part of 45 years.... Will a pair of lithium last anywhere near as long?

 

[Pausim]

Sorry to hear of your difficulties and best wishes.

It seems likely that that your lithium batteries will be of the LiFePO4 variety (though not all are), if so they have very low levels of self discharge and will probably not suffer from a few months neglect. They don’t even have to be stored fully charged, the manufacturer of the one I have suggests 80% charge is best for long term storage. However temperature might have some bearing on matters. So two questions, what make are the lithium batteries and how cold does it get where the vehicle has been left?

 

[popotla]

(Pausim) So two questions, what make are the lithium batteries and how cold does it get where the vehicle has been left?

I believe they're LiFePO4, and Relion. At the moment it's -1 degree C. here. Who knows how cold it might get?

The big issue here might be that the engine is not being properly taken care of.

(Lenny HB) What is more worrying is running the engine on tickover for 20 Min something you should never do with modern diesels. Stand a good chance if wrecking the CAT & DPF, doesn't do the engine much good with as it can glaze the bores. Problem is modern diesels never get up to operating temperature on tickover. It needs to be taken for a drive to get everything up to operating temperature.

If I manage to get to where it's parked (I can't walk or cycle but could take a taxi) and then drive it, in any case it will have to stand from January 1st til 11th February (because I'll be away).

 

[RFS]

I would think that 2 x 110W solar panels will easily produce enough power to keep the batteries topped up and in prime condition.

That's assuming the solar charge controller is a good one. Does it have suitable settings for charging AGM and Lithium batteries? Even if it doesn't have special settings, it's going to keep the batteries charged to 80% or more. That's enough to avoid any damage due to excessively low state of charge.

In some motorhomes the starter battery is not charged by the solar controller, so you would need to check up and eliminate that possibility. The best way would be to ask your friend to take a multimeter reading of the starter and leisure batteries, before he starts the engine for its periodic run.If the voltage of both starter and leisure batteries is over 13 volts then I'd be pretty sure that both sets of batteries are being charged OK.

Probably a silly question....

My Motorhome is in storage (as I'm away for a few months),but I've someone who visits regularly to take if for a run and generally check it over).

It's a late 2005 Fiat based Hymer B Class. It has solar fitted from new; will it have a solar controller that charges both the hab batteries and the van battery?

I hadn't thought about it really before reading this thread and have to confess I've never even looked to see how my solar and batteries are configured, regulated and controlled.

I was thinking of fitting a new MPPT? Controller in the spring as a lot of people seem to rave about them.

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[Allanm]

Can you take the batteries out and get them home to charge them?
Running the engine may not be necessary, think of all the vans sitting around in dealers forcourts, I’m sure they don’t bother starting them up and they are fine.

 

[Pausim]

I also have a Relion battery and yes they are LiFePO4. They can be stored in the range -20C to +60C, if it is likely to drop below -20C in your part of the world then I would suggest getting someone to remove them to somewhere warmer. They should not be charged at anything less than freezing point (though they can be discharged at temperatures down to -20C). I believe the internal battery management system protects them from charging when too cold but I disconnect the battery when it is left in storage just to be sure. Unlike a lead acid battery a LiFePO4 doesn’t need to be stored full and will not self discharge, 13.2V should indicate about 80% which is the best storage level. If you disconnect the Relion batteries hopefully all the solar power should be available to look after the AGM one.

I am not an expert, just an owner, so perhaps you should contact Relion to confirm the position.However to summarise what I would do:
1) make sure they are stored above -20C
2) are reasonably charged
3) disconnect them from charging and
4) ignore them until recovered.

 

[Tude]

Should all batteries be of same size and type also not all agm batteries need 14.6 and above to be charged correctly.

 

[jezport]

As long as the different types of batteries are charging on the correct regulators and they are set up correctly for the type of battery you are ok.
We are in Leeds with 2 x87AH AGM batteries charging from 1x 140AH battery and they have been fine off hook up through winters.

Idling a modern diesel as you suggest will wear the engine and damage other components.

 

[Spriddler]

Idling a modern diesel as you suggest will wear the engine and damage other components.

From my auto-engineering college days memory, it's my understanding that just running the engine without a load or being really fully warmed up (incl the zorst and other associated bits) condensation is generated which together with combustion products will form carbonic acid and cause corrosion and premature/unnecessary wear.
Mind you, that was 50 years ago...........

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[tonyidle]

(Lenny HB) What is more worrying is running the engine on tickover for 20 Min something you should never do with modern diesels. Stand a good chance if wrecking the CAT & DPF, doesn't do the engine much good with as it can glaze the bores. Problem is modern diesels never get up to operating temperature on tickover. It needs to be taken for a drive to get everything up to operating temperature.

Worrying indeed. The problem is that it can't at present be taken for a drive. The insurance is only for me. My friend who's taking care of it doesn't even have a driving licence.

This starting up is what we've been doing for the past three-and-a-half months, which sounds like a long time. Is it better not to run it at all? Can it be run for long enough to get it up to operating temperature without actually taking it out? What are the alternatives?

I leave vehicles that are not in use without ever starting the engine. Even before DPF & catalytic converters unless the vehicle is driven for at least 10 miles after starting all you're doing is causing condensation inside the engine. A Diesel engine is unlikely to suffer from corrosion to the cylinder bores or valves when standing due to the inherent lubricant qualities of the fuel. In short I'd leave the engine alone.

 

[autorouter]

I'd say no need to worry about the batteries. The VCBS 60/40/430 Triple is a top quality product.

'Triple' means it has three functions. Mains battery charging, including a small charge for the starter battery. Solar charging, including a small charge for the starter battery. 'Converter' which boosts the charge to the leisure batteries when the engine is running and the alternator is supplying power. This 'Converter' is more usually called a Battery-to-Battery or B2B charger.

I agree with what others are saying about idling the engine for 20 minutes. Probably better not to do it at all, or very much less often. The batteries will be fine even if you never idle the engine.

 

[popotla]

I was able to take the motorhome for a good run of about 70 km. It appears to be fine.

After returning and parking, the control-panel reading for the leisure batteries was fluctuating between 14.4 and 14.6, with all "charge bars" showing. The starter battery showed 12.8/13.0/13.1 but with only half of the "charge bars" showing. I'm not sure why that would be; I'd have thought all bars would be showing, as with the leisure batteries.

I'm writing this on the evening of Christmas Day as I listen to carols from King's College. I wish all of you a very happy Christmas and the best for 2019.