Power controller? (1 Viewer)

[AllanJ]

Hello everyone, I’m new to this forum and new to motorhoming. Acquired a 2003 Swift Sundance 590RS a few weeks ago and plan to go off with my partner and our dog at the end of January for a tour of Morocco. (Seems we won’t be alone! We're looking forward to meeting some Funsters on the way ;-) )

There’s obviously been a great deal to think about and we are gradually getting ourselves and the van prepared. Because of the time of year we’ve probably spent more time thinking about heating than anything else! I’ve spent an age researching travel kettles etc and it all seems too much of a lottery so I want to be able to use an ordinary household kettle and fan heater on a 10A (or less) hookup. Obviously to do this I’d need to reduce their power consumption, from 2-3kw down to preferably the 500w to 800w range. After a bit of trawling I found a power controller which seems able achieve this – but having a limited understanding of electronics I’m not at all sure, so could do with some advice on its suitability in a motorhome and, if it will do what I want it to do, how best to install it – can anyone help?


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Power-reg...382030189010?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10

 

[Madcaravanner]

OK to use appliances you need to consider the power going IN

on a UK site you will get usually either 10 or 16 AMPS
So you need to think how many amps your motorhome uses BEFORE you plug anything in (Battery charger/fridge/water heater)
The you need to work out how many amps you have left and how much your appliances need

Watts Divided by Volts equals Amps
Or
Amps multiplied by Volts equals Watts

a standard Household kettle is usually 2200W so a kettle will need over 10 amps to works without tripping the pylon BUT a lot of household items have start up Wattage which is higher so will trip your supply out
IT therefore is usually best to get a low wattage travel kettle or even better a Gas kettle then you can use it when you pull over for a brew

AND Yes someone will always say they have always used a domestic kettle without problems but they have probably never used a 6amp supply in France where all you can run is the fridge


As for the power reducer not worth the extra cost easier to run camping specific kit and in the long run cheaper

 

[Stealaway]

Is there any reason why you don't want to use a gas kettle/heating?

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[TerryL]

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Why do you want to use an electric kettle? You've got (or should have) a much better means of heating water for a cuppa with your gas hob - and it's more efficient. We carry a small travel kettle but it only gets used (if then) when we're on hookup.

Looks like what you're thinking of is to use electricity like you do at home. It is possible but you're running into lots more problems - what I think you think you need is an inverter. Sorry have no idea what the power controller does but an inverter needs LOTS of battery storage, plenty of info on here, search "Inverters". More complications.

Your van already comes suitably equipped to cover most things you're going to need, even in winter so, without trying to be pompous, perhaps you need to look at how you do things in a different way. Apart from the leisure battery, which supplies all the 12v stuff, you're main energy supply is gas which runs the fridge, water heating and interior heating. This can be taken over by electricity if you are on a campsite and can get a power hookup - but beware that the best you'll get anywhere is 16 amps (about 3.5kw) and often much less than that. There are a number of improvements you can make to this but I don't want to confuse you at this early stage; suffice to say you've already got everything you need for now (as long as it's all working of course).

If you've got any specific queries about the operation of the equipment on your Sundance, ask away. It's a popular van and there are plenty of owners of the same or similar vans here. Thinks - did you not get a handover when you bought it, i.e. an explanation of how everything works?

Hope I haven't put you off, but this is really a great site for getting info and help if you need it. Even better if you subscribe - it'll be the best £15 you'll ever spend on your motorhoming.

Nothing wrong with being ambitious - Morocco for your first trip??? We're great fans of Morocco, been four times so far but unfortunately not able to this winter, but yes there's quite a few Funsters heading that way. Read the threads "Morocco 2015", "--2016" and "--2017" for lots of info. The current one, would you believe is Morocco 2018 - follow that one for the latest info. Best of luck.

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[DBK]

If you really want to use an electric kettle buy a travel kettle. Tesco sell a few around 600W. They aren't very big, typically 0.5 litres, but with low wattage that's all you can heat in a reasonable time.

The fundamental issue with what you are proposing is without installing an ammeter on the input side you won't know how much current you are drawing. You will then either always run it at the lowest power setting, which could take ages to boil anything or you tweak it a bit until the site supply goes bang. You might be able to reset the supply but they are sometimes locked.

But you won't always be able to have an electric supply, so what do you do then?

Nip down to somewhere like Go Outdoors and buy a whistling kettle. They cost next to nothing and work anywhere.

But most importantly welcome! Don't let my negativity put you off! What you propose would work but it seems unnecessarily complex. You can run 240v stuff without being on electric hook-up but you will need to look at solar power, extra batteries and an inverter. I run my nespresso machine this way but the morning cuppa is gas heated.

 

[pappajohn]

£33 Inc postage for that variable resistor will buy you a nice 700w kettle and change to buy tea bags, coffee and biscuits for a week or two.
May take a few more minutes to boil but it's unlikely you will trip the Hook up post.

Motorhome mains power usage is a world away from domestic usage....you certainly don't have an endless supply and need to be quite frugal with what you have plugged in.
The same applies to 12v battery usage....you have a very limited supply and whatever is taken out has to be put back in quite quickly to avoid battery damage.

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[EX51SSS]

Have to agree with @Stealaway and @TerryL regarding gas.
I certainly cannot down tone the virtues and convenience of refillable gas cylinders. Plenty of threads on here about refillable cylinders and can fill up wherever available. Funsters who are visitors to Morocco will advise about accessibility to LPG.
Also agree that Morocco is a brave step as the first adventure but that's your choice and wish you well and importantly

 

[hilldweller]

The best bits of Morocco have no hook up. It's more about solar and efficiency.

And some power you would not want to approach without rubber boots and rubber gloves - much like their toilets.

 

[AllanJ]

Thanks everyone for your welcome and your contributions. I assure you I have already given consideration to everything that has been mentioned.

If we were going to limit our travels to UK and Europe we’d probably get the LPG conversion done and wouldn’t be worrying so much about conserving gas. That we plan to spend several weeks in winter in Morocco has made me think differently. Very possibly I’m worrying needlessly, maybe 12kg of calor propane will last us for the week or so we’ll spend en route each way plus 4 or 5 weeks in Morocco? I get the distinct impression gas is hard to come by there so am trying to arrange as much in the way of ‘backup’ as possible. (I’ve heard there’s someone in Agedir who will refill calor bottles but a) I’m not sure I’d be confident with that and b) we don’t plan on driving down that way.) Obviously we’ll be using gas whenever there is no hookup but whenever there is hookup we plan to conserve gas by using electricity.

I mentioned kettle but with perhaps 50 cold nights ahead on this trip it’s heating I’m far more concerned with. If we could afford it we’d get an Ultraheat conversion for our Truma S5002, but at £300+ that’s out of the question, at least for now. So I’m keen to find an alternative to gas to provide heat. I’ve spent ages researching various types of low wattage heaters but they all seem either not very good or very expensive. Then I hit on the idea of a device to reduce the power consumed by ordinary heaters – and if I had one of those I could run an ordinary electric kettle on it too, why not?! One advantage of this arrangement is that if the heater, kettle or whatever, packs up on the road I can go to the nearest supermarket/electrical shop and replace it easily without having to shop around for a ‘travel’ variant.

@ DBK: you said what I propose would work? That’s what I was hoping to hear. As you say, it wouldn’t be much use without an ammeter, and that’s what I’d envisaged - mounting the controller in a metal box together with an ammeter. You also say that it seems unnecessarily complex – well maybe it is, but I think it could be handy and the outlay wouldn’t be enormous – certainly nowhere near the cost of an Ultraheat conversion. I’d like to make it work if I can, so if you have any further advice I’d really appreciate it

I’d also like it to stop snowing!

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[TerryL]

If we were going to limit our travels to UK and Europe we’d probably get the LPG conversion done and wouldn’t be worrying so much about conserving gas. That we plan to spend several weeks in winter in Morocco has made me think differently. Very possibly I’m worrying needlessly, maybe 12kg of calor propane will last us for the week or so we’ll spend en route each way plus 4 or 5 weeks in Morocco? I get the distinct impression gas is hard to come by there so am trying to arrange as much in the way of ‘backup’ as possible. (I’ve heard there’s someone in Agedir who will refill calor bottles but a) I’m not sure I’d be confident with that and b) we don’t plan on driving down that way.) Obviously we’ll be using gas whenever there is no hookup but whenever there is hookup we plan to conserve gas by using electricity.

Gas is very easy to come by in Morocco, it's everywhere and very very cheap. The problem is there's no (official) way of refilling either a refillable system or European bottles. There are several solutions to this and a read of the Morocco threads will show them. However, although I haven't tried this myself, I'm told the thread on Moroccan bottles is the same as Calor, in which case just buy a Moroccan bottle then "donate" it to somebody when you leave!

Just as a thought, 2x6kg bottles lasted us in Morocco okay for 4 weeks. (We've got Gaslow so could top them up in Spain before and after our visit). Depends of course on your useage - mainly for fridge and cooking, not used a lot for heating and electric hookup (which can be a bit dodgy) helps.

 

[hilldweller]

I assure you I have already given consideration to everything that has been mentioned.

Like many many who arrive here that post a question just wanting to have their views confirmed, you seem the same.

It's perfectly normal.

Ignore all the experience in here and learn the hard way.

If you do buy that controller make sure you mount it in an insulated box or you'll never get back to us with "told you so, it worked a treat". How are you going to know what setting to use ? A bit too high and CLICK "please mister can you reset your breaker". Or worse "Darling, why are all those angry people heading this way ?"

First trip we arrived in Morocco with a single big Gaslow tank worried, like you, will we survive. We stopped only 3 weeks and took loads of gas back to Europe.

Moroccans are remarkable people, making the most out of their limited resources, they would laugh at the idea you could not get gas, a basic requirement of life.

 

[Lenny HB]

That power controller will not help at all with a fan heater, electric heaters are virtualy 100% efficient i.e. 1000 watts of electricity in = 1000 watts of heat out. Reducing the power to it by 50% means it will take twice as long to reach the required temperature and use exactly the same amount of power.

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[autorouter]

Yes this power controller will work for a kettle or heater. But there is a problem - it uses phase control, and does not use zero-crossing detection to limit the interference. If you're not sure what that means, maybe Google will explain it.

Basically it is likely that it will cause buzzing and mains hum from any nearby audio device, even if it works off batteries. More to the point, the interference will propagate through the wires back to the hookup post and into any nearby motorhomes. And probably even if they are not nearby. It's like the buzz from cheap light dimmers, but you will be controlling 3000 watts, not 60 watts, so it will be 50 times stronger.

Here's some more numbers to think about. An average house mains incoming is fused at 100 amps, an average hookup post is 10 amps. An average house solar array is 4000 watts, an average motorhome solar setup is less than 400 watts. In other words, 10 times less.

That's the main reason most motorhomers come round to the view that heating (hot water, central heating, cooking, brewing up for example) is best done by gas.

So my advice is to buy a low wattage kettle (700 up to 1000 watts max), and a low wattage fan heater (500 watts, or 500/1000 switchable). I'd avoid 'travel kettles', they are very minimalist, designed to pack up small into a suitcase, and many do not have auto shutoff when the water boils. And a gas whistling kettle for when you're off hookup or the hookup post trips.

I have two 500 watt fan heaters. A motorhome is well insulated and is a small space, so I very rarely use them both.

It's sometimes worth using the electricity if you're paying a fixed charge for the connection, but increasingly sites are installing meters and it's usually cheaper to run on gas. The first thing I did when I acquired my current motorhome is have an on-board LPG gas tank fitted.

 

[AllanJ]

Yes this power controller will work for a kettle or heater. But there is a problem - it uses phase control, and does not use zero-crossing detection to limit the interference. If you're not sure what that means, maybe Google will explain it.

Basically it is likely that it will cause buzzing and mains hum from any nearby audio device, even if it works off batteries. More to the point, the interference will propagate through the wires back to the hookup post and into any nearby motorhomes. And probably even if they are not nearby. It's like the buzz from cheap light dimmers, but you will be controlling 3000 watts, not 60 watts, so it will be 50 times stronger.

Thanks autorouter, your advice came just in time!

I'd pretty much decided to go ahead with buying the bits and making it a project just to see if it would work, although I was still unsure about the phase control aspect about which I know nothing (clearly!). I did do some googling but all the info I found was over my head. Well from what you say it’s obviously a non-starter, I'm happy to take your word for it!

As I said, I had been looking for low wattage appliances but wasn't really getting anywhere. What 500w fan heater do you use, assuming you can recommend it?

(While I'm here - if anyone else wants to chip in about the virtues of gas please don’t, I get it, honest. I do actually know a little bit about it from the months I spent avidly trawling this and other forums both before and after acquiring the van. And funnily enough it was almost entirely knowledge gained from forums that informed our choice of van. I'm grateful for forums like this and I think this is a particularly good one, which is why I became a subscriber. I know better than to put up a thread asking questions that have answers easily found elsewhere on the forum, to do so would be to invite insult. Oh, I got that anyway! Ah well, that’s forums for you ;-) )

 

[TerryL]

@AllanJ I'm absolutely positive that no insult was meant, plus it's good to hear that the forum was of great help choosing your van.

I think it was more a case that the impression you originally gave was being a complete beginner (of course we do see a lot of them) and seemed to be pushing aside the experiences we've all gone through, which we now see wasn't the case. We're known for doing our best to be helpful, not getting uppity, so please forgive if anyone gave this impression (but, yes, there always is the occasional one! ).

Look forward now to hearing about your further experiences and maybe meeting up with you somewhere. Morocco! Still a teensy bit jealous (we can't go this winter )

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