Overheating Ducato brakes

[GrahamCardiff]

We’ve just completed the Grossglockner pass - as expected, the brakes overheated
and we stopped to let them cool down . But the handbrake wouldn’t grip at all, and we had to use reverse gear as the handbrake instead. Is this a common problem with a Ducato based chassis unit? Ours is a PVC of around 3.5 tonnes.

 

[TheBig1]

yes it is a common fault. the handbrake uses a small second set of shoes in the top hat shaped part of the rear disc. adjusting needs to be done in a particular sequence rather than just tighten the cable

 

[GrahamCardiff]

Thanks. So I guess a Fiat van specialist is the best bet to sort it out ?

 

[TheBig1]

these are the details of how to adjust the handbrake correctly

 

[SpeedyDux]

Meanwhile find a big rock or two to carry along and use as a wheel chock.

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[GrahamCardiff]

these are the details of how to adjust the handbrake correctly

Thank you - very helpful

 

[ambulancekidd]

Always remember that when brakes got really hot, the handbrake may well grip but, caution is required, as the brakes cool they will contract.
This has been the cause of runaway vehicle's even though the owner put the handbrake on properly & this can happen to any vehicle although it is not common.

I have been to a fatality where the owners own vehicle ran him over.

 

[Figaro]

We’ve just completed the Grossglockner pass - as expected, the brakes overheated

Why were you expecting the brakes to overheat ?
Engine braking and periodic use of he brakes should not overheat them.
I did Grossglockner pass last year and had no problems with the brakes and mines an old girl.

 

[tacr2man]

The handbrake should not be affected by the foot brake as IIRC it is separate entirely , it may be that being inside drum of rear disc it will work again when drum contracts on cooling .

 

[jongood]

Always remember that when brakes got really hot, the handbrake may well grip but, caution is required, as the brakes cool they will contract.
This has been the cause of runaway vehicle's even though the owner put the handbrake on properly & this can happen to any vehicle although it is not common.

I have been to a fatality where the owners own vehicle ran him over.

this is for vehicles where the handbrake acts on the disc brakes. A drum handbrake actually tighten s as it cools.

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[GrahamCardiff]

Why were you expecting the brakes to overheat ?
Engine braking and periodic use of he brakes should not overheat them.
I did Grossglockner pass last year and had no problems with the brakes and mines an old girl.

Well, I did just what you said you did, and the brakes were smoking by the end of the pass. Perhaps I need to refine my technique.

 

[Southdowners]

Well, I did just what you said you did, and the brakes were smoking by the end of the pass. Perhaps I need to refine my technique.

I doubt there was anything wrong with your technique.

We had the same problem with our brakes overheating last year. We were in Norway going down a very long and steep descent using gears and brakes. We were flagged over by another motorist as there was smoke pouring out of one side at the rear.

We had the brakes checked before proceeding... there was nothing wrong with them, which was a surprise. We always stop to allow cooling now.

 

[Pausim]

I recall reading somewhere that overheating brakes are better cooled by continuing to drive gently but not stopping. Obviously if the brakes have stopped working driving is not an option. Am I dreaming this? What is the official advice?

 

[Figaro]

Maybe poor quality pads ?
I've had them before where they get too hot due to inferior materials used in manufacturing.
On one occasion they warped the disc.
I asked the garage what they fitted and after a load of waffle it turned out they were cheap Chinese crap. Never went there again.

 

[Southdowners]

Maybe poor quality pads ?
I've had them before where they get too hot due to inferior materials used in manufacturing.
On one occasion they warped the disc.
I asked the garage what they fitted and after a load of waffle it turned out they were cheap Chinese crap. Never went there again.

Ours weren’t poor quality they were the factory fitted ones. For us it was simply the gradient and the distance combined.

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[jongood]

Ours weren’t poor quality they were the factory fitted ones. For us it was simply the gradient and the distance combined.

The weight is also relevant Imho

 

[SHABBINS]

The weight is also relevant Imho

Good point jongood. Do you know your travelling weight GrahamCardiff? The 2019 Sunlight Cliff 600 has an advertised GVW of 3300kgs.
The brakes on most Ducato based motorhomes are working at the top end of their design limits with permanent full loading. The maxi chassis on some of the coach built Ducatos have uprated rear brake discs.
We have to think like HGV drivers and allow for the load we are carrying especially on the downhill gradients. My travel weight is 3350kgs and the engine will over rev on the steep downhills (if allowed) so brake use is vital.
If you think you may suffer brake fade use 1st gear and keep it slow.
At least travel down a hill in the same gear you would travel up.
Why do we all climb a hill at 15mph but then feel we should descend the same hill at 30mph?

 

[Ivory55]

Is there up grades for motorhome brakes, like larger discs. You would think as that there is ways to increase power like re chipping then there would be up grades to stop it.

 

[ambulancekidd]

When many of the UKs ambulance services made the catastrophic decision to buy Ducato's (well Peugeot Boxers) the first issue which reared its ugly head was brakes catching fire once a crew had stopped at an incident!
I know of a crew who came out of a GPs surgery to find the firefighters dousing their wagon with water, the tyres had actually been damaged by the flames, this was not an uncommon occurrence.

Clutches were a second problem, they are even more marginal than the brakes, especially reversing uphill.

The ambulance service mechanics hated them universally.

Lets face fact here, the Ducato is a crap design from one end to the other & always has been.

It'll tolerate light usage which we motorhome folk give it but, its a million miles away from being fit for purpose.

 

[Southdowners]

The weight is also relevant Imho

Our vehicle is 7.49 tonnes. We weren’t overweight as we took the vehicle to our local weighbridge before we left. The weight was also given when we left the garage who checked the brakes after the event.

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[jongood]

Is there up grades for motorhome brakes, like larger discs. You would think as that there is ways to increase power like re chipping then there would be up grades to stop it.

Ducato maxi chassis have larger discs

 

[addoaddo]

If brakes overheat you should if possible keep going to allow them to cool down evenly. If you stop the discs can be damaged.

This is easy to say in theory but in practice who would want to drive with non working brakes.

If possible just moving forward 6" every few minuets will help as this would change the position of the pads relative to the disc/drums

 

[Bluemanc100]

Why were you expecting the brakes to overheat ?
Engine braking and periodic use of he brakes should not overheat them.
I did Grossglockner pass last year and had no problems with the brakes and mines an old girl.

I guess you used the gears to control the vehicle speed... sensible I guess instead of working your brakes too hard...

These days with the introduction of all round discs I guess some manufacturers (especially LGV) set the default at friction brakes as the pads are much more cost effective to replace than transmission parts. In reality however with modern systems the driver has little clue whether friction, gears or retarders are slowing him (or her) down

 

[Figaro]

I think avoiding standing on the brakes for long periods is the key to success.
Third gear, then brake firmly when speed builds and necessary to scrub speed, then off the brakes until it builds again - repeat.
Works for me - so far

 

[tacr2man]

Our vehicle is 7.49 tonnes. We weren’t overweight as we took the vehicle to our local weighbridge before we left. The weight was also given when we left the garage who checked the brakes after the event.

You were in the wrong gear , if you want to do fast descents with a large vehicle , you need to have endurance braking system fitted HTSH

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[Southdowners]

You were in the wrong gear , if you want to do fast descents with a large vehicle , you need to have endurance braking system fitted HTSH

No, you are wrong. We weren’t in the wrong gear and certainly not driving too fast. I don’t know why you think that we were.

 

[tacr2man]

Y

No, you are wrong. We weren’t in the wrong gear and certainly not driving too fast. I don’t know why you think that we were.

Your own statement you grossly overheated your brakes, the vehicle was fitted with OE pads etc , the weight was within spec , you say it was down to steepness and distance , do all large vehicles on that road overheat their brakes ? What are the possible other factors in this situation , faulty brakes , you say you had them checked after ? Therefore it would tend to suggest that the energy that was having to be dealt with by the braking system was too high , this wasn't being limited by using other means eg engine braking by being in a low enough gear to limit the speed so that brakes could cope . Your quite allowed to have the opinion that I am wrong but i was just going from logic and my experience , operating large vehicles including upto 100tonnes GTW . JMHO safe travels

 

[Southdowners]

You were in the wrong gear , if you want to do fast descents with a large vehicle , you need to have endurance braking system fitted HTSH

I did not say that we wanted to do fast descents - you were the one who introduced that concept.

The Norwegian mountain pass was extreme and so, yes, I would expect that we would be far from being the only ones to experience this. I also doubt there would be 100 tonne vehicles using that route so I’m not sure why you think your driving experience is relevant in the situation I am describing.

 

[tacr2man]

Just trying to be helpful , didnt mean to upset you , I wont be commenting further.

 

[busby]

I recall reading somewhere that overheating brakes are better cooled by continuing to drive gently but not stopping. Obviously if the brakes have stopped working driving is not an option. Am I dreaming this? What is the official advice?

Dont get them hot in the first place..Low gear and hardly use your brakes.We didn't hardly have any brakes on trucks pre 1970 but managed ok.BUSBY.

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