New Leisure battery with Solar system (1 Viewer)

[Romolo]

Hi Everyone,

Will be quite honest that I own my own pre-loved campervan for 5 days!!. (Ford Transit LWB - 2000-2006).

I have a few questions but should probably break them out.

Main one is I have been advised to get a new leisure battery as previous owners of 2 years said they never got a new one and its been standing for 1 year.
That is fine.
I currently have two batteries fitted under my drivers seat. Car battery and Leisure battery.

When looking for a new leisure battery I can find lots. Would like some advice please. I may be restricted by dimensions as all the batteries seem to be bigger than mine.

The one currently fitted is TDC100CP AH 66amps. I wanted to go bigger as my wife and I want to offgrid more than visit sites with a hook up so looking for the class A of wilkcamping more than hook up. Was thinking 110amps or more.

I have a relay fitted NAGARES RL/180-12 / 100A. Control Unit is the Bonus PMS 3 (does not say bonus but looks identical and is called PMS 3V). Also a solar panel.

Been advised the system is wired up to run the van charges main and leisure. Solar charges leisure. Can run power straight from the control unit on the solar.

So my questions... if too much someone just say:

a) PRIMARY ONE - dimensions of this battery are: Length 27cm 12 cm Height and width 17cm. There is a little more room there. I could go up if I remove the plastic panel and a few centimeters if I squish it within the seat mounting for the frame.

b) Been advised hot air heating system and sockets are MAIN only. Would like to change this. Any suggestions. Assume inverter wired into my leisure battery or possibly another one again?

c) Would like to calculate my solar panel wattage etc.. but have no paperwork .. just the control unit.

As advised I will be very honest not a mechanic. Not a spark - but can do home electrics and maintenance. Handy with DIY. NO experience with campervans.. so VERY VERY VERY green. Was going to get some advice from a local camping, motorhome etc... leisure shop but they do not do that at this time due to the 'rona.

Please help and advise. Would like to get a battery in for the weekend when we take out our van for first overnight to see how things are.

If the question is TOO BIG...please can I get advice on the battery. Only ever swapped batteries on car's when dead.

Was going to get a battery from Halfords or jacksonleisure.com as they seem to get here quickly or can pick up.

Many thanks in advance.

R

 

[Romolo]

FIRST campervan I mean

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

I would not run any heating system just from a battery, via an inverter or other wise, it will flatten batteries like crazy.. Best to look at the Chinese diesel heaters if you don't have gas heaters.
If you can advise the approx dimensions of your solar panel, someone will advise the approx wattage for you.
For your battery, just make sure that if you replace it then there is plenty of clearance from the terminals to any metal underseat parts.
I would try the van as is for the first weekend. You will only need lights TV.. Best to check lights are all led, low power usage. Lots of battery companies will deliver batteries. Best of luck

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[Romolo]

OK C)... Solar Panel is producing 20.1 volts from the terminal and 3.6Amps. So Watts should be 80Watt.... this is pre-clean of the solar panels.

 

[Romolo]

Thanks Jimbohorlicks.... I can say it is not good right now. For example. I went out to the Van. Battery says high FULL LEDs. I switched on 2x LED lights jumped to 3 LEDS 60%.. so battery to me appear very much duff? Would you agree?

R

 

[Romolo]

Also I am totally green to this. So please offer up suggestions of heating NOT on batteries. My wife saw a heater that takes cartridges. I have gas in the van for hot water, cooker and hob. So could I tap into this via dual spout regulator? Or is the catridges the best way to go? I am not sure as I have doe cartridges/cannisters when camping and yeah they are fine for cooking on a single ring etc... but I found them frustrating and having to carry several and top up all the time.
I used a halogen heater when we camped on EHU. But this is my first venture into offgrid so a little green I have to say.

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[Jimbohorlicks]

Agree, if you can fit, best size to get a110ah to start. If you have space you can always add another later, remote from the seat one. A 66ah is not going to give you much through an inverter for any length of time and I would only use an inverter for a few mins for anything over 600w.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Don't use the cartridge heaters in your van, they can kill you. They are only for use in an outside space, ie awning or popup and even then must be well ventilated. Similarly don't use any open flame device for heating in the van, unless you have specifically designed gas heating, don't DIY your own. If you need off grid heating check out the diesel heaters. Plenty of info on this on the Internet and fun.
If you have gas for hot water, I would have thought there would be gas heating also with a blower fan that also uses quite a lot of power from batteries.
Ps as you are a free member you can only post 5 times. Best to subscribe £15 for the year, plenty of good advice to be had on here.

 

[Romolo]

Yes just found that out lol... NOT much of an alert.. but yep I have paid the £15...

I can only run the blow heater when EHU... I am looking for a wildcamping solution

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[Vipar]

Greetings peeps welcome from West Kent

 

[Romolo]

@jimboho

 

[Romolo]

Jimbohorlicks .. yes I cannot run the heating unless on EHU... Which seems weird as well as no sockets have power unless on EHU. Would this be an inverter required I am guessing.... and then wire up to the sockets?

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[Romolo]

a) SO will buy a new battery and make it fit safely starting 110ah especially with my details supplied regarding relay and solar panels?

b) What should I do heating wise WITHIN the Van?

c) Looks like 80Watt solar panel?

Thanks in advance peeps.

R

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

I haven't tried the deisel heaters as we have gas blown hot air in our van, but we also have 2 x solar panels and 3 x leisure batteries, 325ah.we have a portable canister gas single burner as a back up cooker and looked at the portable canister heaters for the popup, a few folks use them but just for pop ups and awnings.
A couple of funster have fitted the deisel heaters and from all accounts they work well, but you have to carry deisel seperately or connect to your main tank. If its cold at night, use a hot water bottle till you sort something out.

 

[Jev88]

Hi.
Change your thinking a little. Normal 3pin sockets are only for EHU. So when not on hook up use 12v devices and adaptors and add some extra 12VOLT sockets and USB sockets. Far better use of your stored power.

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[Jimbohorlicks]

If your van is a known conversion if you put the details on here someone may be able to advise what heating suits your van type.

 

[Romolo]

Thanks Jimbohorlicks. Will look into diesel heaters.

Hi Jev88.. I totally get that thinking. The current issue is that NON of my sockets run when not on EHU. And there are no DC inputs anywhere.

The only way to do this is to go back to the solar panel unit and drain live off the solar panels via 2x USB slots and 2x DC ins (have put plugs and cable to do something).

Really to get any power around the van rather than sit under the solar panel... which is NOT running from the battery but the panels themselves I need to make some changes to the get the leisure battery available to other parts of the van for low power TV and fan etc...

I would have thought the Van would allow for power to be drawn off the leisure battery but the only things wired in are fridge and lights. No outlets anywhere.

SO.... I need to do one of the following:

a) Run long USB extension cables and DC input cables around the Van.. I have 2x USB and 2x DC Inputs. So I have bought long cables and DC males and female plugs and some cabling. This seems like a VERY poor way to do it.

b) Or I wire up some usb sockets and DC input sockets and then wire them straight into the current wiring for lights and fridges?

Any thoughts.

Jimbohorlicks So the gas blown heat in the van.. is this something I could do off my existing Gas supply or possibly alternate gas like BBQ and Patio heaters use different? Does this take any juice? Thanks

 

[Romolo]

Well it is a Ford Transit LWB T350. Professional conversion I am advised.
Runs the following:

Bonus PMS 3V power management system.
Solar panel.. looks like 80Watt unless someone can advise differently 3.6 Amps and 20.1 Volts on the panel when I measured.
Car battery on drivers seat. Leisure battery under drivers seat. Split relay Nagares Rl/180-12 100A so leisure gets charged when car is running and cuts off when ignition is off so you are just using leisure battery.
Has Car/Off/Van on PMS system. LED battery indicator and is connected up as follows I am advised:

Car - Should run from the car battery... this DID NOT work when I tried it.. no lights came on or fridge when I tried car mode and Van starts fine so there is juice.
Off - NOTHING.... but charges from Mains and/or solar
Van - just runs off Van. This only works for LED lights and fridge.... no outlets.... NOWHERE... that is what is odd to me.

Charging switch. If switched to Charge On when on EHU then the main sockets are available to be used.. they are standard 3 pin sockets... so I do get that. There is no inverter etc..

Leisure battery is 66Amps and is clearly failing right now. Weird dimensions of: 27cm Length. Width 17cm. Height 12cm. Which seems REALLY small when I look up Leisure batteries.

CMG Solar Charger Controller. This allows for 2x USB and 2x DC Ins that run straight off the solar panel and NOT the battery which is how this was explained to me so you can use it even if the battery was dead or regardless of juice... I know you must keep the juice up. But the point is it runs off the panels only. This is my ONLY outlet power when NOT on EHU.
Oddly the battery reads 13.9V etc... and even 14Volt .. which is meant to be the leisure battery. But the battery goes from 100% 5 LEDs to 60% 3 LEDs after 1 minute of LED lights being powered on in VAN mode and the fridge and then drops to 40% etc.... after 3 minutes or so.. so this is why I think the battery is toast.

Now the manual says for the Solar that the output current is OFF when voltage is 10V... but it says it is 13.9V and even 14V whenever I look at that is literally from unlocking the Van. So maybe there is a wiring fault here... PLEASE ADVISE. Again maybe a rubbish battery.

When I press the RED power button then I can charge my phone straight off the USB .. however the display is always on.. but it turns the output Current to 0.2A or something.... as opposed to OFF.

PHEW!!!! Thanks in advance everyone.

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[Jimbohorlicks]

The fridge will take a lot of power and flatten the battery, it would be better running the fridge on gas not from the leisure battery. If it won't do this the you will have major issues with a 66ah battery only with 1x solar panel. Most fridges are 3 way, gas ehu and only 12v when the engine is running, ie moving. If your fridge is 240v only and you want to go Wilding, and if there is no one around, you may be better to look at a small quiet gennie, but you would be ostracised if you started one up within earshot of others.

 

[davidbaldam]

Hi and welcome to FUN.

 

[Romolo]

thanks Jimbohorlicks .. The fridge as I have been advised runs on 12v DC. So it runs off leisure battery. And when hooked up they tell me.

Hmmm I was thinking about 2x batteries in parallel. But TBH I think I might just for 110AH and stick with current solar and see how it goes. Get the extensions in for now to run off solar also and or plumb into leisure.

Still need to decide on heating tho!!! without killing us and/or the battery.

Thanks

R

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[gus-lopez]

Best to look at the Chinese diesel heaters

^^^^^^^^^^what he said. Does the job, easy to install. excellent output.

 

[Campervan_man]

Re;Ford Transits.
I have a Ford Transit 2010.
Never had a Tranny before.
Under the front cab seat is a slightly unusual set up to most vans.
ie, a 60AH designated 'starter battery' and a 100AH Auxiliary battery { not a leisure battery }.
A warning sticker under the seat says NOT to connect anything directly to these batteries but to use some pre-fitted 60A fused outlets at the back of the driver's cab seat { One of 3 fuses }.
I fitted a 100A leisure battery in the back of My van with a 20A dual charge controller to charge the newly added 100A leisure battery and the auxilliary 100A battery via the 60A fuse at the back of the seat.

Apparently if the standard 100A aux battery runs low it can also drag the 60A starter battery down making starting difficult.
The battery in the back runs 12V lights, 12V sockets, a mini 12V fridge, submersible 12V pump and a Chinese Diesel Air Heater.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Most lead-acid leisure batteries should only be discharged to around half capacity. Much more than that and the lifespan of the battery will be limited. The current 66Ah has probably been run down quite a few times as 33Ah would be pitiful. 110Ah will give you a lot more, but you are still going to have to watch what power you are using especially if you are wilding and don't move on for a couple of days. I'd be surprised if you could run a fridge for any length of time off 12V unless you wanted to kill a single battery.

You also need to watch what current (load) you apply. Most lead-acid have a limit on current draw before again you are going to pull too much and cause damage. You'd only want a very small inverter, even 500W may be a lot for sustained use.

Last weekend, my pitiful 75Ah battery got nothing from solar, despite it being summer, due to rain and after just Friday and Saturday I was down to probably 40%, yet fridge was gas, no heating, limited use of LED lights so I was only really doing damage from an Avtex TV. This weekend I get Lithium but that is an extravagant solution to my problem. Avoid AGM (they have a bad reputation) but GEL batteries can do higher discharge and more load which could be a good balance of cost to capability, provided your charger has the right profile.

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[Romolo]

Ok very interesting info here... Tbh I would prefer one battery maximum gain and recharge. If this means gel and spend £300 then albeit I'm not getting a foreign holiday and want to staycation. But heating is a drag.. so pls recommend Chinese diesel heaters and separate tank? Who can I get to install Wirral way?

 

[cmcardle75]

With that size battery, you can forget inverters for mains power and you can forget running a fridge off it.

You want to do wilding? You need to either find space for a 180Ah battery (i.e. a 629 type), or pay an absolute fortune for a 100Ah LiFePO4 battery that will fit in the existing location and be equivalent in actual capacity.

You need to kit yourself out with 12V sockets and appliances, which will be massively more efficient. If you want to run a fridge off 12V and solar, you need a compressor fridge. If you have a 3 way fridge, you need to run it off gas or EHU. 12V for these fridges is purely for running off an engine alternator and not useful with the engine turned off. It would flatten a battery in minutes.

Heating, your choice is electric (EHU only), gas or diesel. Same with water heating (although good luck finding a diesel water heater). 12V electricity will be in very short supply and there can't possibly be enough of it to heat anything.

 

[autorouter]

First thing to say is, the electrics are not set up in the usual way. Solar controllers have input terminals for the solar panel, output to the batteries, and also some have a third pair usually called 'load'. The load terminals are not normally used in a motorhome, but it sounds to me like that's what you are using for your 12V devices.

The usual setup is for all the solar output to go to the leisure batteries. Then all the 12V loads are run from the leisure battery. Load terminals are ignored.

The fridge running from 12V is a bit of a problem. Most find that you need about 200 watts of solar panel to harvest enough energy to keep a 12V fridge going. As you know, solar is not totally reliable, especially in the UK weather, so a battery bank of about 200 amp-hours is a good idea to tide you over a bad weather patch.

I'd forget about an inverter for now. A 6-way fusebox wired from the leisure battery will make it easy to add a few 12V sockets. With some 12V USB adapters you can charge phones, laptop etc and run a 12V TV.

6 way Heavy duty blade type fusebox with twin input positive busbar 1 x negative busbar. ALT/FH5025B

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www.altecautomotive.co.uk

I'd say you need to stick to camp sites with electric hookup (EHU), but if you add extra solar and batteries you'll be able to run the fridge off-grid, and wild camp if the weather is good enough not to need a heater.

If you get extra solar, and are uprating the controller, it's a good idea to get a 'dual controller' that has an extra output to trickle charge the starter battery. That way, the batteries stay charged even if the MH is parked up for a few weeks.

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[Abacist]

Tanya Batteries

Battery Megastore

Both used by members on Fun

Loads of threads on different types of batteries that can be used.

Take care to secure the Transit - loads of stories about Transits being stolen, poor locks, etc

Welcome!

 

[autorouter]

Here's something for future reference, but I think worth mentioning as you say you're a newbie so might not have heard of them. You know the split charge relay, that connects the leisure battery to the starter battery/alternator when the engine is running. OK, that charges the leisure battery, but tends to tail off the charging fairly quickly, so it takes a long time for the leisure battery to get to 100%.

It is possible to fit a 'Battery-to-Battery'(B2B) charger, which actively draws power from the alternator just like the headlights and wipers do, and boosts the power to give the leisure battery the optimum volts and amps to charge as rapidly as possible. It can fully charge the battery in about three hours of driving, instead of the eight hours or more for a split charge relay. They are great if you usually tour around, moving on every day or two.

 

[autorouter]

c) Looks like 80Watt solar panel?

Possibly, but more likely to be a 100W panel. A 100W panel will only produce 100 watts when square on to strong mid-day sun in a clear atmosphere. Most 100W panels won't yield much more than 70 watts when horizontal on a MH roof, lucky to get 80 watts even in Gibraltar.

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