Lithium weight benefit.

[ShiftZZ]

Anyone know whats the difference in weight say between a 100 amp lead acid v the same lead acid alternative.

So if lithium is twice the 'capacity' of lead acid etc. Then replacing two 100 amp lead acid with say two lithium would be twice the power but half the weight?

 

[eddie]

Anyone know whats the difference in weight say between a 100 amp lead acid v the same lead acid alternative.

So if lithium is twice the 'capacity' of lead acid etc. Then replacing two 100 amp lead acid with say two lithium would be twice the power but half the weight?

Pretty much yes

 

[tonyidle]

Easily - but there are accurate comparisons on various websites.

 

[Two on Tour]

Plus an added benefit of faster/higher charging rate with lithium.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

A typical 100 ah lead acid battery is around 25-26 kgs ,a 100 ah lithium is approx 13.5 kgs.
If you were swapping 2 X lead batteries for equivalent 2 x lithium you would be looking at saving 25 kgs or thereabouts.with twice the longevity.

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[tonyidle]

A typical 100 ah lead acid battery is around 25-26 kgs ,a 100 ah lithium is approx 13.5 kgs.
If you were swapping 2 X lead batteries for equivalent 2 x lithium you would be looking at saving 25 kgs or thereabouts.with twice the longevity.

A lot more than twice the longevity I suspect.

 

[Bobby-gg]

It's just the costs of the purchase and associated equipment to justify!

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

A lot more than twice the longevity I suspect.

Thanks, Yes I meant available amps from the batteries. lifetime is around 5000 cycles as opposed to 500-600 for lead acid.

 

[Old Gibber]

Anyone know whats the difference in weight say between a 100 amp lead acid v the same lead acid alternative.

So if lithium is twice the 'capacity' of lead acid etc. Then replacing two 100 amp lead acid with say two lithium would be twice the power but half the weight?

Hmmm. Lithium is not twice the capacity of lead acid, it is the same. In terms of discharge capacity its all about how long you need the battery to last, and that's where it tends to get complicated. A lead acid battery will last longer if only discharged to 50%, but you can go down to 80%. Its pretty much the same with lithium in reality. Discharge a lithium below 80% and you will ruin it very quickly, though many lithiums for leisure use have protection circuits built in to prevent this. For long life discharging only down to 50% is advisable.

You then have to factor in cost, and a decent lead acid battery reasonably well looked after should last about 5 years.

The main advantages of lithium is its higher discharge current and weight, though lithiums, like lead acid batteries like slow charging rather than fast charges.

The rarely mentioned disadvantage of lithiums is that for storage they prefer to be at half charge only, whereas lead acid batteries preferred to be stored fully charged.

 

[Raul]

A LiFePo4 with good bms can do 2000 cycles 100% discharged. If you cycle less deep, expect more cycle count. A lead discharged to 80% it will struggle to give 100-150 cycles. On lead, also depends the weight per capacity, that’s where the finite active material is for the cycle count and calendar life.

Wheight wise 100ah LiFePo4 is roughly 13kg, depending on the case and bms;
And a Pb 100ah anywhere from 25 to 30kg. Deep cycle batteries are much heavier than the common leisure mongrel.

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[ShiftZZ]

The issue we have is we don't know the age of the batteries, they are impossible to access, so decided to replace both with possibly 2 x 150ah ,spoke to vanbitz and nobitz is still having his breakfast, anyhow Ian is going to send me some options.

I wonder if eddievanbitz will give me the normal Funsters discount of 7.25643% discount and free camping @ £28 per night, plus room service..

 

[ShiftZZ]

Pretty much yes

You ain't so bad looking your self. Especially in the Joe Marler enhancing underpants.

 

[eddie]

The issue we have is we don't know the age of the batteries, they are impossible to access, so decided to replace both with possibly 2 x 150ah ,spoke to vanbitz and nobitz is still having his breakfast, anyhow Ian is going to send me some options.

I wonder if eddievanbitz will give me the normal Funsters discount of 7.25643% discount and free camping @ £28 per night, plus room service..

Eddie Van Bitz is in the Highlands

 

[RowleyBirkinQC]

We recently ditched 2 x 92Ah AGMs of circa 25kg each for a single Sterling 120Ah lithium of circa 14kg with Smartshunt (already had compatible B2B & MPPT solar controller installed in preparation). Huge weight saving, first real field test of such imminent.

We never got the personal room service touch though?

 

[ShiftZZ]

Eddie Van Bitz is in the Highlands

Gone to admire the Calcutta Cup?

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[ShiftZZ]

We recently ditched 2 x 92Ah AGMs of circa 25kg each for a single Sterling 120Ah lithium of circa 14kg with Smartshunt (already had compatible B2B & MPPT solar controller installed in preparation). Huge weight saving, first real field test of such imminent.

We never got the personal room service touch though.

Try wearing the Joe Marler underpants. Apparently irresistible in TW1 and Somerset.

 

[eddie]

Hmmm. Lithium is not twice the capacity of lead acid, it is the same. In terms of discharge capacity its all about how long you need the battery to last, and that's where it tends to get complicated. A lead acid battery will last longer if only discharged to 50%, but you can go down to 80%. Its pretty much the same with lithium in reality. Discharge a lithium below 80% and you will ruin it very quickly, though many lithiums for leisure use have protection circuits built in to prevent this. For long life discharging only down to 50% is advisable.

You then have to factor in cost, and a decent lead acid battery reasonably well looked after should last about 5 years.

The main advantages of lithium is its higher discharge current and weight, though lithiums, like lead acid batteries like slow charging rather than fast charges.

The rarely mentioned disadvantage of lithiums is that for storage they prefer to be at half charge only, whereas lead acid batteries preferred to be stored fully charged.

I disagree, having been installing Lithium setups for about eight years now I don’t recognise the problems you mention.

Unpalatable or not, cost isn’t everyones major deciding factor, weight, power and convenience are more important to a lot of people

i have had 2 x 100 amp lithium batteries in my camper, with a Victron inverter charger, which is plugged into mains 24/7 at work, in all weather conditions to see what anomalies it throws up, which is absolutely none to date

The lead acid batteries we removed weighed nearly 30kilos each and the Lithium’s weighed just under 15kgs each

With 3 x 175w solar panels and a 120 amp buck boost B2B we can be independent if we wish

 

[eddie]

Gone to admire the Calcutta Cup?

No some proper Mountains not like that shitty hill in walze

 

[eddie]

Try wearing the Joe Marler underpants. Apparently irresistible in TW1 and Somerset.

Made of Bamboo!

 

[ShiftZZ]

No some proper Mountains not like that shitty hill in walze

Still bigger than those in ingerlandi.. must be heartbreaking not having the Calcutta Cup, 3 years now,

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[ShiftZZ]

Made of Bamboo!

I won't know... not popular with real men..

 

[Old Gibber]

A LiFePo4 with good bms can do 2000 cycles 100% discharged. If you cycle less deep, expect more cycle count. A lead discharged to 80% it will struggle to give 100-150 cycles.

Do you really need 2,000 cycles? Even if you discharge the battery fully every day, and then recharge it that equates to 5.5 years use, and how many of us need that apart from the few that are full timers?

My view is that given 5-10 years hence, I will probably not be motorhoming, and even if I am, then the price, chemistry and energy density will be far better than it is today.

 

[funflair]

Do you really need 2,000 cycles? Even if you discharge the battery fully every day, and then recharge it that equates to 5.5 years use, and how many of us need that apart from the few that are full timers?

My view is that given 5-10 years hence, I will probably not be motorhoming, and even if I am, then the price, chemistry and energy density will be far better than it is today.

I can understand that but on the other side of the argument if you have paid many £ 000's for batteries you wouldn't be happy if they were dead in a few years, or I wouldn't anyway.

 

[chaser]

Do you really need 2,000 cycles? Even if you discharge the battery fully every day, and then recharge it that equates to 5.5 years use, and how many of us need that apart from the few that are full timers?

My view is that given 5-10 years hence, I will probably not be motorhoming, and even if I am, then the price, chemistry and energy density will be far better than it is today.

Can anyone tell me in simple terms, what a cycle is in the battery sense, I have had two 100a lead battery's for about three years now apart from if we are out in the van they are never below full as the solar is charging them everyday and nothing coming out of them , when we are away I have never seen them below 12.3 v in a morning before the solar has them back up to 13 in a couple of hours, is this a cycle?
Or does it mean it has to get below 12 and up again if so I have never had one cycle yet.

 

[poppycamper]

Can anyone tell me in simple terms, what a cycle is in the battery sense, I have had two 100a lead battery's for about three years now apart from if we are out in the van they are never below full as the solar is charging them everyday and nothing coming out of them , when we are away I have never seen them below 12.3 v in a morning before the solar has them back up to 13 in a couple of hours, is this a cycle?
Or does it mean it has to get below 12 and up again if so I have never had one cycle yet.

My understanding is... anything out and something back in (regardless if fully charged or not) is a cycle.
However probably totally wrong, and I too am interested in answer.

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[funflair]

This is what Apple have to say about their Lithium batteries, have seen similar definition quoted for lead acid.

"
When you use your Mac notebook, its battery goes through charge cycles. A charge cycle happens when you use all of the battery’s power – but that doesn’t necessarily mean in a single charge.
For example, you could use half of your notebook's charge in one day, and then recharge it fully. If you did the same thing the next day, it would count as one charge cycle, not two. In this example, it might take several days to complete a cycle".

 

[Two on Tour]

One charge cycle is a period of use from fully charged, to fully discharged, and fully recharged again.
If the battery is only partially discharged and then recharged then this is not a full cycle, but the percentage of this partially discharged and then recharge adds up and forms part of the total charge cycles.

 

[autorouter]

So if lithium is twice the 'capacity' of lead acid etc. Then replacing two 100 amp lead acid with say two lithium would be twice the power but half the weight?

You have to be careful with the wording. Twice the capacity will have the same weight as the originals. Half the weight would have the same capacity as the originals. So it's either twice the capacity or half the weight.

To be strictly accurate, the lithium batteries could be twice the power (ie how fast they discharge) and half the weight, but I get the impression that's not what you are asking.