Leisure battery Flat...ish

[hogger]

Hello All
New user name after talking to other funsters about security (formerly known as Steven)
Went over to storage to check on the van earlier and the leisure battery's a bit flat. Got a red warning triangle on the display inside. The electric steps came down but got stuck halfway up. I think the battery level display inside was showing 13.2 or something lime that. Way below the cab battery.
I don't mind so much as I suspected the battery's and tyres are the original ones in the van and we have cash left over for these things.
My question is. The van has been sitting in storage since our 'maiden' trip. If I took it out a good run up and down the motorway would that charge up the leisure battery a bit again or is it goosed?
I've been reading up on leisure battery's a bit and remember seeing something about not letting them discharge more than 50%
How would you go about charging it if not using the van?
It's easy enough on my bike, I just take it out and take it home for a charge but these are big heavy buggers

 

[Spriddler]

I think the battery level display inside was showing 13.2 or something lime that. Way below the cab battery.

Just to avoid confusion between your batteries; 13.2V is fully charged. The cab battery voltage is most unlikely to have been higher than that.

 

[hogger]

Just to avoid confusion between your batteries; 13.2V is fully charged. The cab battery voltage is most unlikely to have been higher than that.

Ok thanks, just that the steps stopped halfway and getting a red warning triangle

 

[Lenny HB]

12.7v and over is fully charged. Best to check it with a multimeter in case the panel is reading incorrectly.
To charge a flat leisure battery driving you will need to to 200 to 300 miles.

 

[Spriddler]

You really need to measure the voltage at the leisure battery with a test meter and nothing turned on. No need to disconnect the battery. Even if you get a good reading the battery may still be goosed and unable to deliver enough current for the step.
Re charging, if you have solar and the m/h is in daylight it's unlikely to shock a dead battery back into life.
If there isn't mains power at storage the best way is to bring the battery home to charge it.

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[hogger]

12.7v and over is fully charged. Best to check it with a multimeter in case the panel is reading incorrectly.
To charge a flat leisure battery driving you will need to to 200 to 300 miles.

cheers, well that won't happen for now. looks like a new battery then

 

[hogger]

You really need to measure the voltage at the leisure battery with a test meter and nothing turned on. No need to disconnect the battery. Even if you get a good reading the battery may still be goosed and unable to deliver enough current for the step.
Re charging, if you have solar and the m/h is in daylight it's unlikely to shock a dead battery back into life.
If there isn't mains power at storage the best way is to bring the battery home to charge it.

Rito cheers. the vans not been sitting that long unused so I reckon the battery is gone being the original one, Five yrs old. The question is what's best, loads of choice out there

 

[Spriddler]

It may just be a dodgy step circuit although batteries do just die, often without any prior hints as to their health.
Does other fairly high drain stuff work? E.g. the water pump? The lights won't necessarily be much of a guide as they draw relatively little current.
Edit later.
5 yrs is pretty much par for the course dependant upon how they've been treated.
As far as a replacement goes there are many opinions. You can get chapter and verse by doing a forum search.

 

[pappajohn]

cheers, well that won't happen for now. looks like a new battery then

Fit a new one when you next need the van. Fitting one now may mean it's flat by the time you next use it.
All batteries have a self discharge plus there's parasitic loads.... Possibly Alarm, radio memory, control panel etc... Flattening it.

 

[Spriddler]

There was a thread posted just a couple of hours ago which may give you some clues:

Halfords Leisure Batteries

I’m thinking of purchasing two of the Halfords EFB leisure batteries, anyone already using them. I was after some good honest reviews before I decide, apparently EFB is the lates technology and better than AGM.

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

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[hogger]

Fit a new one when you next need the van. Fitting one now may mean it's flat by the time you next use it.
All batteries have a self discharge plus there's parasitic loads.... Possibly Alarm, radio memory, control panel etc... Flattening it.

Yes was thinking it would be a bit of a waste fitting right now to just sit there

 

[hogger]

It may just be a dodgy step circuit although batteries do just die, often without any prior hints as to their health.
Does other fairly high drain stuff work? E.g. the water pump? The lights won't necessarily be much of a guide as they draw relatively little current.
Edit later.
5 yrs is pretty much par for the course dependant upon how they've been treated.
As far as a replacement goes there are many opinions. You can get chapter and verse by doing a forum search.

Cheers will do a search. any idea the kind of money I should be paying for a good one? I was thinking I'll need to be paying around £200 for half decent one and also wondering if I'll be able to fit a second. I'll need to check the locker for space

 

[hogger]

There was a thread posted just a couple of hours ago which may give you some clues:

Halfords Leisure Batteries

I’m thinking of purchasing two of the Halfords EFB leisure batteries, anyone already using them. I was after some good honest reviews before I decide, apparently EFB is the lates technology and better than AGM.

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

cheers, had a look and Halfords seems to be the way to go?

 

[autorouter]

Does your MH have solar panels? A voltage of13.2V is way above the expected voltage of a battery that's not being charged.
Fully charged is about 12.7 to 12.9V, depending on exact type. Pretty flat is 11.9 to 12.0V. So you can see a fairly accurate voltage measurement matters. As Spriddler says, get a cheap multimeter to check the voltage at the battery terminals. Compare it with the display panel to give you confidence the display is giving the correct value or not.

During charging, the voltage is higher, between about 13.4 and 14.4V. It's a good way of seeing if the battery is charging or not.

 

[autorouter]

How would you go about charging it if not using the van?

If you haven't got solar panels on the roof, a small solar panel stuck to the windscreen with suckers, or propped up at an angle, will keep a battery topped up. If less than about 30W it can be connected directly, without a controller. Assuming it's stored outdoors, of course.

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[hogger]

Does your MH have solar panels? A voltage of13.2V is way above the expected voltage of a battery that's not being charged.
Fully charged is about 12.7 to 12.9V, depending on exact type. Pretty flat is 11.9 to 12.0V. So you can see a fairly accurate voltage measurement matters. As Spriddler says, get a cheap multimeter to check the voltage at the battery terminals. Compare it with the display panel to give you confidence the display is giving the correct value or not.

During charging, the voltage is higher, between about 13.4 and 14.4V. It's a good way of seeing if the battery is charging or not.

No Solar panel. I'll get a multimeter. When you say 'during charging' do you mean with the engine running or with battery out on charge? I'm pretty clueless about electrics. I bake cakes for a living

If you haven't got solar panels on the roof, a small solar panel stuck to the windscreen with suckers, or propped up at an angle, will keep a battery topped up. If less than about 30W it can be connected directly, without a controller. Assuming it's stored outdoors, of course.

I've been reading about solar panels and wondering how you connect them?

 

[autorouter]

A battery that's not being charged can't push out a voltage higher than about 13.0V. So if you measure the battery voltage and it's more than 13V, you know something must be charging it - mains charger, solar, engine alternator, or out on a bench being charged.

Typically it will be about 14.4V during the main charging bit. It will drop to maybe 13.4 to 13.6V when the charger decides the battery is fully charged and it is float-charging to just keep the battery topped up.

When the charger is disconnected, the voltage gradually falls from 13.6V down to about 12.8V if the battery is fully charged, over a period of a couple of hours. This is normal.

The voltage of a battery when there's no load or charger connected is called the 'resting voltage', and is a reasonable indication of the state of charge. There are charts on the internet showing the voltage at different charge percentages. The exact voltages depend on the type of battery - flooded, AGM, gel etc.

The voltage will be different from the resting voltage if it's being charged or powering a load.

 

[hogger]

A battery that's not being charged can't push out a voltage higher than about 13.0V. So if you measure the battery voltage and it's more than 13V, you know something must be charging it - mains charger, solar, engine alternator, or out on a bench being charged.

Typically it will be about 14.4V during the main charging bit. It will drop to maybe 13.4 to 13.6V when the charger decides the battery is fully charged and it is float-charging to just keep the battery topped up.

When the charger is disconnected, the voltage gradually falls from 13.6V down to about 12.8V if the battery is fully charged, over a period of a couple of hours. This is normal.

The voltage of a battery when there's no load or charger connected is called the 'resting voltage', and is a reasonable indication of the state of charge. There are charts on the internet showing the voltage at different charge percentages. The exact voltages depend on the type of battery - flooded, AGM, gel etc.

The voltage will be different from the resting voltage if it's being charged or powering a load.

Thanks for this info and I do understand it. I need to get myself a multi meter. The van has been parked up in storage for two weeks nearly as we have not been able to get away in it. The battery's are the original and five years old so I think I will buy a new leisure one at least to start with when we're heading out in it again and go from there. We don't plan on any wild camping to begin with and will be on EHU.

 

[autorouter]

If you're not planning any wild camping, you can probably manage fine without solar panels on the roof, and a B2B charger to boost the charge from the engine. Your main problem will be the batteries gradually discharging in storage.

If the storage is outdoors, a small solar panel propped up inside the windscreen will be enough to keep the batteries topped up if they are already quite full. Up to about 30W can be clipped directly to the battery, and many come with battery clips for this reason. A bigger panel will need something to stop the panel overcharging the battery on a bright day, which is why a 'solar controller' is necessary.

There are two main types, MPPT and PWM. They both do about the same on a long hot sunny day, but on cloudy days and in early morning and late evening the MPPT type will extract a bit more power than PWM. As you'd expect, MPPT is more expensive than PWM.

You connect the battery positive and negative to the battery input terminals on the solar controller, then connect the panel pos and neg to the PV input. You'll need to wire in a fuse near the battery end of the battery positive wire. Look at the controller output amps and choose the next bigger fuse value.

If the solar controller has 'load' terminals, just ignore them, and you can ignore anything in the manual related to the load terminals. These terminals are for using the solar controller in small self-contained systems like street lights, road signs etc. Motorhomes don't use them.

By the way, any cheap multimeter will be OK for measuring battery voltage. For example, you can get one from Screwfix for under a tenner.

 

[PhilandMena]

autorouter has nailed it for you. Get solar, as much as you can get up. Do it once and do it right. If you just go and replace your battery you will end up in the same place again. Halfords I.M.O. is a complete waste of time for leisure batteries and if you choose to go down the Lead Acid route stick with a manufacturer that produces their own leisure batteries. Varta, Bosch or Excide to name a few.
Lots of members will give you great advice on here and some will give you bad advice but with good intent so do your research before splashing your cash. Keep Safe.

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[hogger]

If you're not planning any wild camping, you can probably manage fine without solar panels on the roof, and a B2B charger to boost the charge from the engine. Your main problem will be the batteries gradually discharging in storage.

If the storage is outdoors, a small solar panel propped up inside the windscreen will be enough to keep the batteries topped up if they are already quite full. Up to about 30W can be clipped directly to the battery, and many come with battery clips for this reason. A bigger panel will need something to stop the panel overcharging the battery on a bright day, which is why a 'solar controller' is necessary.

There are two main types, MPPT and PWM. They both do about the same on a long hot sunny day, but on cloudy days and in early morning and late evening the MPPT type will extract a bit more power than PWM. As you'd expect, MPPT is more expensive than PWM.

You connect the battery positive and negative to the battery input terminals on the solar controller, then connect the panel pos and neg to the PV input. You'll need to wire in a fuse near the battery end of the battery positive wire. Look at the controller output amps and choose the next bigger fuse value.

If the solar controller has 'load' terminals, just ignore them, and you can ignore anything in the manual related to the load terminals. These terminals are for using the solar controller in small self-contained systems like street lights, road signs etc. Motorhomes don't use them.

By the way, any cheap multimeter will be OK for measuring battery voltage. For example, you can get one from Screwfix for under a tenner.

Many thanks again for all your great advice and most of it makes sense. The bit that bothers me below

(You connect the battery positive and negative to the battery input terminals on the solar controller, then connect the panel pos and neg to the PV input. You'll need to wire in a fuse near the battery end of the battery positive wire. Look at the controller output amps and choose the next bigger fuse value.)

How do I connect the battery pos and neg to the input terminals on the solar controller then connect the panel pos and neg to the PV input? what is the PV?. I understand about an inline fuse as I've used them on my bike for sat nav/power socket
I'll look at smaller solar panels but I store it outdoors albeit in a secure yard but it could get pinched if sitting on windscreen no?

 

[hogger]

autorouter has nailed it for you. Get solar, as much as you can get up. Do it once and do it right. If you just go and replace your battery you will end up in the same place again. Halfords I.M.O. is a complete waste of time for leisure batteries and if you choose to go down the Lead Acid route stick with a manufacturer that produces their own leisure batteries. Varta, Bosch or Excide to name a few.
Lots of members will give you great advice on here and some will give you bad advice but with good intent so do your research before splashing your cash. Keep Safe.

Thanks Phil, Good to know about the Halfords ones as I had been looking at them. I've also been looking at roof mounted solar panels and how to mount them. I hate the idea of putting the van in to get one fitted and getting fleeced. I have a Harley and have done a lot of work to it over the summer (none of it electrical) and saved myself an absolute fortune not taking it to the dealer.
I'm in no hurry to get a solar panel, certainly not a roof mounted one at the moment so I will take my time on that and do lots of reading up.
One of my problems with doing any work including cleaning is I'm a bit nervous about going up on the roof. I'm 63 now and not the fittest. I also do not have ladders to get up there and if I did I have nowhere to keep them as we live in quite a small flat. I'm wondering how I am going to get up there to clean it for now.

 

[PhilandMena]

Fitting Solar Panels to your roof can seem daunting but if you take your time and do a bit of reading, listening to how others have done it, you will be fine. Plenty of help from U-Tube tutorials as well. Just plan ahead before spending your cash and understand what your existing and future needs will be with respect to your power consumption. You may well want to install an inverter to power some 240 V devices and these can take a big draw from your battery bank. I fitted my own Solar Panels at your age and it was quite straightforward. I made the mistake of only fitting one (125 W) and have since fitted another 120 W this has made a significant difference to my Wild Camping potential and I can spend weeks without hook-up providing I have plenty of sun. For me getting on the roof is relative easy as I do it with one of those aluminium step ladders and go up through the big skylight at the front. My weight, under 13.1/2 stone is not an issue for my roof and I keep to the outer edges as much as possible as there is more support underneath this area than there is in the middle. If I was you I would wait until May when the weather is just right!

 

[hogger]

Fitting Solar Panels to your roof can seem daunting but if you take your time and do a bit of reading, listening to how others have done it, you will be fine. Plenty of help from U-Tube tutorials as well. Just plan ahead before spending your cash and understand what your existing and future needs will be with respect to your power consumption. You may well want to install an inverter to power some 240 V devices and these can take a big draw from your battery bank. I fitted my own Solar Panels at your age and it was quite straightforward. I made the mistake of only fitting one (125 W) and have since fitted another 120 W this has made a significant difference to my Wild Camping potential and I can spend weeks without hook-up providing I have plenty of sun. For me getting on the roof is relative easy as I do it with one of those aluminium step ladders and go up through the big skylight at the front. My weight, under 13.1/2 stone is not an issue for my roof and I keep to the outer edges as much as possible as there is more support underneath this area than there is in the middle. If I was you I would wait until May when the weather is just right!

Thanks again phil. yes i would wait until better weather I think. For now and as we intend to use the van whenever we get a chance I will get a small one to keep the battery topped up a bit. There's so much choice on amazon all claiming to do this and that and widely varying prices it's confusing. I'm keeping Autoroute's advice about maximum voltage to use to stop the battery over charging. Looking at them now. thanks again

 

[autorouter]

How do I connect the battery pos and neg to the input terminals on the solar controller then connect the panel pos and neg to the PV input? what is the PV?. I understand about an inline fuse as I've used them on my bike for sat nav/power socket
I'll look at smaller solar panels but I store it outdoors albeit in a secure yard but it could get pinched if sitting on windscreen no?

Sorry, wrong word. Should have said battery output terminals, or just battery terminals. PV = PhotoVoltaic, and the solar panel input is sometimes labelled PV,

Solar panels work by light, not heat, so they work quite well inside the windscreen. At least well enough to keep the batteries topped up. Preferably propped up at an angle. Some of the small purpose-built ones even have suckers to stick on the inside of the windscreen. If you're trying to fill up a flat battery you can put the panel outside or even on the roof. It helps if they catch the sun for at least part of the day.

As a permanent fit-and-forget solution, you could fit a panel on the roof, maybe 100W. That involves making a hole in the roof for the cable, and fitting a weatherproof cable feed-through sealed with mastic. Then you'd be set up to try a bit of wild camping if you ever want to.

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[PhilandMena]

Thanks again phil. yes i would wait until better weather I think. For now and as we intend to use the van whenever we get a chance I will get a small one to keep the battery topped up a bit. There's so much choice on amazon all claiming to do this and that and widely varying prices it's confusing. I'm keeping Autoroute's advice about maximum voltage to use to stop the battery over charging. Looking at them now. thanks again

A smallish solar panel in the UK during winter will be useless. If your storage is secure better to fully charge battery then disconnect Neg terminal.

 

[hogger]

Sorry, wrong word. Should have said battery output terminals, or just battery terminals. PV = PhotoVoltaic, and the solar panel input is sometimes labelled PV,

Solar panels work by light, not heat, so they work quite well inside the windscreen. At least well enough to keep the batteries topped up. Preferably propped up at an angle. Some of the small purpose-built ones even have suckers to stick on the inside of the windscreen. If you're trying to fill up a flat battery you can put the panel outside or even on the roof. It helps if they catch the sun for at least part of the day.

As a permanent fit-and-forget solution, you could fit a panel on the roof, maybe 100W. That involves making a hole in the roof for the cable, and fitting a weatherproof cable feed-through sealed with mastic. Then you'd be set up to try a bit of wild camping if you ever want to.

Thanks Autorouter. been having a look on amazon but can't see any with suckers so far. I've been looking at the flexible ones specifically.

 

[hogger]

A smallish solar panel in the UK during winter will be useless. If your storage is secure better to fully charge battery then disconnect Neg terminal.

I could take home and charge yes. I remember the last owner showing me a cut out switch for the electrics. Rather then disconnect the battery would this do?
I take your point about a small solar panel, its not that we get a lot of sunshine just now.

 

[Reallyretired]

Three of my 4 solar panels I can reach to clean through the large roof vent just standing on a seat, as I'm a bit dubious about climbing on the roof. The 4th gets an annual clean from the valeter.