Kalkhoff or R&M bike? Advice required please.

[Clarky]

I want a decent quality electric bike to get out and about when away in the van and also to get me fitter.

I’ve done a bit of web researching have come up with a couple of ideas but could do with some unbiased and experienced help from you lovely lot before I lash out a load of my hard earned.


If you will bear with me I’ll try and explain what my thinking is so you can get an idea what I’m looking for.


Although I’m in my early 70s I don't feel like it but I’m not as fit as I could be. I don't have the strength and stamina that I used to have so, as I’ve always enjoyed cycling I would like to ride more.

The problem is, I just hate hills. I’m not a masochist and also I don't feel the need to prove that I can climb mountains. A nice little bimble along flat smooth roads will do me nicely but wherever we go there are those darn hills.

I don’t want a mountain bike with those awful knobbly tyres, nor do I want a ‘sit up and beg’ type with a wicker basket on the front. I want it too be a bit sporty at least.

So, it looks like a hybrid type with robust tyres that will take the occasional rough track and canal tow path.

Crank motors seem to be the thing everyone says one should go for, so there goes £2k at least.

It will be carted around on the MoHo garage along with chairs and all the other kit so I would like to keep away from greasy chains and dangly, vulnerable derailleur gears.

That means belt drive and hub gears……..oops! Looks like the wrong side of £3k now.

The bikes that I like the look of on paper are the Riese & Mūller Charger Nuvinci ( ) or the cheaper Blue Label version, but that doesn't have any suspension to help my aged joints and bones. The one I really like the look of is the Kalkhoff Integrale i8,( http://www.50cycles.com/electric-bikes/kalkhoff-bikes/integrale_i8.html)


If anyone owns one of these bikes I would love to hear your views, good and bad and any other comments or tips will be gratefully received.


Richard.

 

[David Bunker]

I would recommend Kalkhoff but I only have experience of chain drive and derailleur gears on a Pro Connect 9. Great ride and good quality, 50 Cycles were good to deal with. I arranged a couple of test rides with them at Loughborough before deciding.

 

[kelv]

I agree 50cycles were great to deal with bought 2 kalkhoffs very pleased with them fly up the hills with very little effort mine has derailleur gears the wife's has hub both very good

 

[Dorset Diver]

I want a decent quality electric bike to get out and about when away in the van and also to get me fitter.

I’ve done a bit of web researching have come up with a couple of ideas but could do with some unbiased and experienced help from you lovely lot before I lash out a load of my hard earned.


If you will bear with me I’ll try and explain what my thinking is so you can get an idea what I’m looking for.


Although I’m in my early 70s I don't feel like it but I’m not as fit as I could be. I don't have the strength and stamina that I used to have so, as I’ve always enjoyed cycling I would like to ride more.

The problem is, I just hate hills. I’m not a masochist and also I don't feel the need to prove that I can climb mountains. A nice little bimble along flat smooth roads will do me nicely but wherever we go there are those darn hills.

I don’t want a mountain bike with those awful knobbly tyres, nor do I want a ‘sit up and beg’ type with a wicker basket on the front. I want it too be a bit sporty at least.

So, it looks like a hybrid type with robust tyres that will take the occasional rough track and canal tow path.

Crank motors seem to be the thing everyone says one should go for, so there goes £2k at least.

It will be carted around on the MoHo garage along with chairs and all the other kit so I would like to keep away from greasy chains and dangly, vulnerable derailleur gears.

That means belt drive and hub gears……..oops! Looks like the wrong side of £3k now.

The bikes that I like the look of on paper are the Riese & Mūller Charger Nuvinci ( ) or the cheaper Blue Label version, but that doesn't have any suspension to help my aged joints and bones. The one I really like the look of is the Kalkhoff Integrale i8,( http://www.50cycles.com/electric-bikes/kalkhoff-bikes/integrale_i8.html)


If anyone owns one of these bikes I would love to hear your views, good and bad and any other comments or tips will be gratefully received.


Richard.

@Clarky

Hi Richard. I have a lovely Kalkhoff and a Velo de Ville Pedelec (http://www.velo-de-ville.de/en/) I bought it in Germany and it leaves the Kalkhoff in the shade. I chose one with the NuVinci gearbox which takes it to a whole new level. Certainly worth a look and can be configured and bought online.

 

[Clarky]

Thanks for your comments so far.
It sounds like 50 Cycles are good to deal with and Kalkhoff get more good reports which is a bonus as I favour the Integrale.
It appears to have a better spec than its competitors for the price and I like the battery being built into the frame design rather than being 'tacked' on.
Not looking too much like an electric bike has an appeal when I whiz past the lycra clad crowd.

Richard.

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[Robin McHood]

I want a decent quality electric bike to get out and about when away in the van and also to get me fitter.

I’ve done a bit of web researching have come up with a couple of ideas but could do with some unbiased and experienced help from you lovely lot before I lash out a load of my hard earned.


If you will bear with me I’ll try and explain what my thinking is so you can get an idea what I’m looking for.


Although I’m in my early 70s I don't feel like it but I’m not as fit as I could be. I don't have the strength and stamina that I used to have so, as I’ve always enjoyed cycling I would like to ride more.

The problem is, I just hate hills. I’m not a masochist and also I don't feel the need to prove that I can climb mountains. A nice little bimble along flat smooth roads will do me nicely but wherever we go there are those darn hills.

I don’t want a mountain bike with those awful knobbly tyres, nor do I want a ‘sit up and beg’ type with a wicker basket on the front. I want it too be a bit sporty at least.

So, it looks like a hybrid type with robust tyres that will take the occasional rough track and canal tow path.

Crank motors seem to be the thing everyone says one should go for, so there goes £2k at least.

It will be carted around on the MoHo garage along with chairs and all the other kit so I would like to keep away from greasy chains and dangly, vulnerable derailleur gears.

That means belt drive and hub gears……..oops! Looks like the wrong side of £3k now.

The bikes that I like the look of on paper are the Riese & Mūller Charger Nuvinci ( ) or the cheaper Blue Label version, but that doesn't have any suspension to help my aged joints and bones. The one I really like the look of is the Kalkhoff Integrale i8,( http://www.50cycles.com/electric-bikes/kalkhoff-bikes/integrale_i8.html)


If anyone owns one of these bikes I would love to hear your views, good and bad and any other comments or tips will be gratefully received.


Richard.

I've got a 2009 Kalkhoff Agattu 8 step through, bought for exactly the reasons you mention. Excellent bike and love it to bits. Just bought a new belt drive version (retirement present)

http://www.50cycles.com/electric-bikes/kalkhoff-bikes/agattu_premium_stepthru.html

also for the longer range on the new drive/batteries. On my original Agattu I've done bike paths all over the place plus up Cairngorm accompanying my daughter on a high spec mountain bike no problem, think I was slightly less puffed at the top than she was and she is a triathlon competitor!
Went to 50 cycles for the first one but bought the second from them via mail order. Excellent outfit.
Me, I'd consider that at our age a stepthru is far more dignified and much cooler on the dismount especially when competing with the Dutch on their bike paths. Happy to chat directly if you wish, drop me a message. The build quality of these bikes is superb.

Must get around to putting my original bike into the For Sale section!

 

[Mousy]

I have a kalkhoff and enjoy riding it but it's a very heavy bike.

 

[Clarky]

I've got a 2009 Kalkhoff Agattu 8 step through, bought for exactly the reasons you mention. Excellent bike and love it to bits. Just bought a new belt drive version (retirement present)

http://www.50cycles.com/electric-bikes/kalkhoff-bikes/agattu_premium_stepthru.html

also for the longer range on the new drive/batteries. On my original Agattu I've done bike paths all over the place plus up Cairngorm accompanying my daughter on a high spec mountain bike no problem, think I was slightly less puffed at the top than she was and she is a triathlon competitor!
Went to 50 cycles for the first one but bought the second from them via mail order. Excellent outfit.
Me, I'd consider that at our age a stepthru is far more dignified and much cooler on the dismount especially when competing with the Dutch on their bike paths. Happy to chat directly if you wish, drop me a message. The build quality of these bikes is superb.

Must get around to putting my original bike into the For Sale section!

Thanks for that Robin.

I agree that the step through is probably more sensible and practical but I just fancy something a bit more sporty. I haven't even sat on an electric bike yet so I have a bit of learning to do before the final decision.
How do you get on with the Shimano hub gears?
I would quite like NuVinci auto gears but I don't think that Kalkhoff fit them. That is one of the reasons I want to look at R&M as well but everyone seems very happy with Kalkhoff and 50 Cycles.

Richard.

 

[Clarky]

@Clarky

Hi Richard. I have a lovely Kalkhoff and a Velo de Ville Pedelec (http://www.velo-de-ville.de/en/) I bought it in Germany and it leaves the Kalkhoff in the shade. I chose one with the NuVinci gearbox which takes it to a whole new level. Certainly worth a look and can be configured and bought online.

Thanks DD.
Are you able to quantify the advantages/improvements of the Velo de Ville over the Kalkhoff?
Had a look at the website and they do look good.
My problem is that being a first time buyer I don't really know what to look for and would prefer to try before I buy and also have some back-up in case of problems.
A purchase from a UK dealer would probably be a safer option.

Richard.

 

[jockaneezer]

We've had 2 Kalkhoff Agattu's for over 4 years now from 50 Cycles, they are the XL frames, so weigh a bit. I had to have a replacement battery 22 months in to the 24 month warranty but the battery on the second bike is still going strong. The drive pawls on the crank drive both failed out of warranty and a phone call to 50 suggested complete motor replacement was the only option, very expensive too. I told them I'd stripped the unit apart and thought it was a weak link in the drive train, they agreed and sent me two pawls foc which I fitted. There was no obvious branding on the motors, so I'm not sure if they're Panasonic or early Bosch units.The Shimano Nexus gear hub works well as long as you keep the cable adjusted. I would be happy with another Kalkhoff, but would consider other brands too, after a test drive.

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[Dorset Diver]

Even as a engineer it is not easy to describe the differences but side by side and riding quality the VdV is just better. I prefer the rack mounted battery, on my Kalkhoff it is behind the saddle upright. The Bosch motor is good but the star is the NuVinci n360 gearbox which I believe is also available on the Kalkhoff. If I was buying today I would go for the NuVinci n380 gearbox with belt drive. I suppose I like being able to build my own bike and VdV allow you to do this online.

Incidentally, the dream of leaving the Lycra clad brigade behind is not really possible because of the 15 mph power assistance cut off but I'm told it can be disabled .

 

[canopus]

We had two Kalkhoffs - great bikes - sold them and now have two Trek Powerflys which are next division up in the league. Have look at this place in Rotherham - they will match any price, and have more E bikes than many places put together. Check out Haibike if you're serious and loaded.

 

[BillM]

Here is a long thread from an electric bike forum, dealing with the reliability of Kalkhoff motors, and towards the end some responses from 50 cycles..... of course you must make your own decision...

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/thr...ity-of-kalkhoff-focus-impulse-2-motors.24290/

 

[Imbiber]

Morning Richard,

We have a couple of the Riese & Muller Pony bikes (20" wheels) with the Nu Vinci hub and gates carbon belt drive; absolutely fantastic bikes and we're very happy with the quality of them. I would definitely recommend the R&M brand.

We test rode Kalkhoff bikes in the Black Forest and were extremely impressed but wanted bikes with 20" wheels. When it came down to it the Kalkhoff Sahel compact (20") just didn't 'wow' us like the R&M pony or offer the versatility for storage purposes.

I would seriously advise you to pay a visit to On Bike in Worcester, who stock both R&M and Kalkhoff, and take a look at first hand and even test ride them first. The quality of the R&M is in my opinion a significant step up over other models.

Just on a final note, the late Eddie (Judgemental) rode a R&M and he new his way round an e-bike!

 

[Robin McHood]

Thanks for that Robin.

I agree that the step through is probably more sensible and practical but I just fancy something a bit more sporty. I haven't even sat on an electric bike yet so I have a bit of learning to do before the final decision.
How do you get on with the Shimano hub gears?
I would quite like NuVinci auto gears but I don't think that Kalkhoff fit them. That is one of the reasons I want to look at R&M as well but everyone seems very happy with Kalkhoff and 50 Cycles.

Richard.

I've had no problem with the Shimano gears. You quickly get used to the slight pause in pedalling you need on changing gear however the new version does that for you for automatically very quickly. Kalkhoff do have a Nuvinci auto bike but I haven't tried that. Been so happy with my existing Agattu and its versatility town/country that I didn't even think of changing. Interestingly the guy I bought RH off in Germany had an R&M which he'd bought direct from the factory in Switzerland. I looked it over but couldn't see any really observable difference to my Agattu. Both our bikes were about 6 years old at the time.
As to riding, everyone who has tried mine always comes back grinning ear to ear. There really isnt anything much to learn, the drive is so smooth and so instant that it just feels like you've suddenly got bionic legs and a secret grin as you out accelerate our lycra clad bretheren away from a stop
One other thing about the Kalkhoff is that although it has 8 gears I only use about 3 to 4 of them 90% of the time...

I've also had to cycle it with a flat battery from Aviemore up to Glenmore on the old logging trail and managed it fine, sure the bike is not a titanium lightweight but it is usble without power(used all 8 gears that time!)

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[Clarky]

Here is a long thread from an electric bike forum, dealing with the reliability of Kalkhoff motors, and towards the end some responses from 50 cycles..... of course you must make your own decision...

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/thr...ity-of-kalkhoff-focus-impulse-2-motors.24290/

Thanks for the link.
I have been reading the threads on Pedelecs forum for the last week or so and was aware of some issues with the Impulse motor.
From what I have read it would seem that the problems have been resolved (I hope) so I don't have too many worries on that score.
Another reason for buying in the UK though, just in case of problems.

Richard.

 

[Clarky]

Morning Richard,

We have a couple of the Riese & Muller Pony bikes (20" wheels) with the Nu Vinci hub and gates carbon belt drive; absolutely fantastic bikes and we're very happy with the quality of them. I would definitely recommend the R&M brand.

We test rode Kalkhoff bikes in the Black Forest and were extremely impressed but wanted bikes with 20" wheels. When it came down to it the Kalkhoff Sahel compact (20") just didn't 'wow' us like the R&M pony or offer the versatility for storage purposes.

I would seriously advise you to pay a visit to On Bike in Worcester, who stock both R&M and Kalkhoff, and take a look at first hand and even test ride them first. The quality of the R&M is in my opinion a significant step up over other models.

Just on a final note, the late Eddie (Judgemental) rode a R&M and he new his way round an e-bike!

Thanks Andy.
I intended to visit On Bike as I know they stock a large range and have a good reputation. Just phoned them to see what they have in stock and sods law says they are closed next week when we are in the area.

Dear old Eddie (Judgemental) was a real fan of Bosch and R&M and I have been reading some of the old threads.

Richard.

 

[Armytwowheels]

Not looking too much like an electric bike has an appeal when I whiz past the lycra clad crowd.

Ooow! A challenge.

 

[Kevan]

Mine is a Kalkhoff include premium all the gears are in the hub belt driven, 125 miles (200 kilometers) on one charge £2995 and they do a step through (which i have got) cos i am the same age as you, and not getting any younger, great bike
http://www.50cycles.com/electric-bi...8_black.html?gclid=CLbgldC0ktMCFYEV0wodSSoA6g

 

[CroxtonCycling]

Not wanting to befoul 50cycles' name & reputation, I had a poor experience buying an electric bike from them a few years ago. The bike was delivered in damaged condition, which wasn't 50's fault, but the ensuing 2 month journey of poor customer service put me off them for life, resulting in a cancelled order. I'm sure they'll have learned from this and improved, but I shan't take my chances in future.

Especially as my local bike shop - has recently become a dealer, and I agree: the Integrale I8 is a very useful looking bike!

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[Clarky]

New bike now purchased while on a trip to the midlands to have a couple of bugs squashed on the Carthago.
Only had a couple of circuits of the site so far but it feels good.
Will have proper go, including some hills, over the next few days.

Thanks for all the replies and advice.

@Armytwowheels' you had best get in training.

 

[Armytwowheels]

Bring it on! Or should I say turn it on!




Nice looking bike though. All need now is the lycra outfit and you are good to go.

 

[Jamwitt]

Clarky that's a lovely bike can I be rude and ask where you got it from and how much you paid

 

[Robert Clark]

Good looking machine Mr Speedylegs

 

[Imbiber]

That looks the business.........can we have some street view video tours of the aires now please ?

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[Clarky]

Clarky that's a lovely bike can I be rude and ask where you got it from and how much you paid

It came from 50 Cycles at Loughborough and cost far too much.
(Shush) Wrong side of £3k but don't let on. (Shush)

Richard.

 

[Clarky]

That looks the business.........can we have some street view video tours of the aires now please ?

Now, that is a thought.
Just have to find a way of getting a mount and some voltage for the camera.
'Easy Rides from Aires' video channel on YouTube?
What do you think?

Richard.

 

[oldosc]

OSC now 80.
Bought a a Kalkhoff Agatu when I came to Cornwall, and found all the hills were hills. Magic Bike. Only problem, is that after a few Ops on my stomach (ruptures) it is too unwealdy to get on the Motor home
(28 inch wheel and v heavy) Then came the arthuritus in the hands (bit unexpected as no trouble before) Have tried many e bikes here in the Rame Peninsula (Cornwall) finally settled on The Emu. front wheel drive, back nexus hub ,300 wheels seems v well balanced to get on the back of the Hymer.. I found the actual power was surprising. and has given me a new lease of life. These pics were from a ride in Heco valley. Spain the track is miked stone, gravel and constant gradient uphill for about 8 /10k .then a 200meter straight scrabble up.LEFT BIKE AT BOTTOM. The pic with the boat was from the Tago near Aberantes Portugal. just a long straight along raised river bank.
I have some pics from my Drone but cannot upload mpg4 to forum.
If you have an interest. mention my name to TIM, most friendly and efficient guy, I think there is an intro fee for a sale..I would gladly pass it onto you
OSC
Ps I mentioned the balance of the bike which is magic for either lifting or part lifting onto the rack, and it is 9kg lighter than the Agatu (which is beautiful for the town)

 

[oldosc]

PS I don,t know if this counts, but it has a USB socket for a gps.

 

[laird of Dunstan]

Ive got a Haibike Sduro , ive just been out and done 30 miles on it ,it has the Yamaha drive system on it ,i love it ,it flattens those hills out

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