Is VAT always payable on a imported used motorhome? (1 Viewer)

[beachwomble]

Having finally identified the campervan of my dreams, I am in the process of finding a dealer. There is just one snag; the campervan is not sold in the UK! The van will be bought new as I can spec it up to my needs and used ones are like hens teeth anyway.
My main query is: if I keep it abroad for some time (one year for example) and then import it to the UK, would I need to pay
A: no VAT or import duty?
B: VAT or import duty based on its current value at time of import? or
C: VAT or import duty based on its value when bought new?
If bought in Switzerland (VAT at 7.7%!), my brother who lives in the country would be the legal owner and me listed as second driver, if an insurance company will allow that.
The other option would be to buy it in France. My father who is resident there would be the legal owner and myself listed as second driver on the insurance. Of course, in both cases the campervan would be bought with my own funds.
I am aware of the material changes needed to the vehicle when importing it, so I just want to focus on the above. I would be grateful for any guidance as I am a total newbie here who may be all too naive with some of the questions raised!

 

[Coolcats]

The brexit bonus.

Have not seen it being payed in to my bank yet. Ooops I was thinking of the sales bonus silly me

 

[Coolcats]

The Gov website says this page is out of date so fat lot of good that it is, why don’t they just update it?

They will but they are currently trawling through all their documents and believe it’s being referred to as ‘whitewashing’ and removing all eu references so it’s going to take a while to get through everything.

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[MGDavid]

They would sound about right. If you bring a car in from the USA you pay Import duty (10%) and VAT on the car price plus duty * 20%.

I guess import duty wouldn't be payable if it's an EU sourced and manufactured motorhome due to the world class trade deal we negotiated with the EU ..., but VAT would be payable in the UK.

If you were buying new you should be able to find a German dealer would would supply you a vehicle VAT free for export. Then you'd pay the VAT in the UK when you bring the vehicle in. Buying second hand - you might be able to get a VAT exclusive sale from a dealer but not form a private seller. Some German dealers who advertise on Mobile.de seem to indicate they are well versed in export procedures.

I'm buying a secondhand moho from a French dealer right now.
They assure me they cannot provide a VAT-free invoice for secondhand goods, only brand new ones. so it's going to cost me 20% extra on import.
However I am getting a near-new model in LHD (which Travelworld wouldn't even discuss with me) in pretty well the exact spec I want without the 1-year plus order time and all the hassle that UK dealers seem to delight in throwing in the customer's direction. Savings will be minimal but that's due to the atrocious exchange rate as much as anything else. Nearly forgot - I'm also getting it on a Ducato chassis whereas all the new ones are being built on Citroen chassis which I have a fundamental distrust of.

 

[ceejayt]

I believe that unless you have owned the vehicle for a set period (12 months?) then import VAT will be payable. The rules are pretty clear on the gov website

 

[Widge]

Having finally identified the campervan of my dreams, I am in the process of finding a dealer. There is just one snag; the campervan is not sold in the UK! The van will be bought new as I can spec it up to my needs and used ones are like hens teeth anyway.
My main query is: if I keep it abroad for some time (one year for example) and then import it to the UK, would I need to pay
A: no VAT or import duty?
B: VAT or import duty based on its current value at time of import? or
C: VAT or import duty based on its value when bought new?
If bought in Switzerland (VAT at 7.7%!), my brother who lives in the country would be the legal owner and me listed as second driver, if an insurance company will allow that.
The other option would be to buy it in France. My father who is resident there would be the legal owner and myself listed as second driver on the insurance. Of course, in both cases the campervan would be bought with my own funds.
I am aware of the material changes needed to the vehicle when importing it, so I just want to focus on the above. I would be grateful for any guidance as I am a total newbie here who may be all too naive with some of the questions raised!

Having finally identified the campervan of my dreams, I am in the process of finding a dealer. There is just one snag; the campervan is not sold in the UK! The van will be bought new as I can spec it up to my needs and used ones are like hens teeth anyway.
My main query is: if I keep it abroad for some time (one year for example) and then import it to the UK, would I need to pay
A: no VAT or import duty?
B: VAT or import duty based on its current value at time of import? or
C: VAT or import duty based on its value when bought new?
If bought in Switzerland (VAT at 7.7%!), my brother who lives in the country would be the legal owner and me listed as second driver, if an insurance company will allow that.
The other option would be to buy it in France. My father who is resident there would be the legal owner and myself listed as second driver on the insurance. Of course, in both cases the campervan would be bought with my own funds.
I am aware of the material changes needed to the vehicle when importing it, so I just want to focus on the above. I would be grateful for any guidance as I am a total newbie here who may be all too naive with some of the

Having finally identified the campervan of my dreams, I am in the process of finding a dealer. There is just one snag; the campervan is not sold in the UK! The van will be bought new as I can spec it up to my needs and used ones are like hens teeth anyway.
My main query is: if I keep it abroad for some time (one year for example) and then import it to the UK, would I need to pay
A: no VAT or import duty?
B: VAT or import duty based on its current value at time of import? or
C: VAT or import duty based on its value when bought new?
If bought in Switzerland (VAT at 7.7%!), my brother who lives in the country would be the legal owner and me listed as second driver, if an insurance company will allow that.
The other option would be to buy it in France. My father who is resident there would be the legal owner and myself listed as second driver on the insurance. Of course, in both cases the campervan would be bought with my own funds.
I am aware of the material changes needed to the vehicle when importing it, so I just want to focus on the above. I would be grateful for any guidance as I am a total newbie here who may be all too naive with some of the questions raised!

I think to get any concessions on import or vat, you would have had to be the owner of the vehicle for 12 months, I dont think that you could get away with anyone else being the owner.

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[enark]

Depends if VAT or local variant has already been paid, well it does with yachts, and used to with cars that we purchased tax free in the UK, exported, thrashed up the autobahn for 6 months, then sold back to original dealer for a few K more….ho ho

 

[funflair]

Depends if VAT or local variant has already been paid, well it does with yachts, and used to with cars that we purchased tax free in the UK, exported, thrashed up the autobahn for 6 months, then sold back to original dealer for a few K more….ho ho

If that was all pre Brexit I think you will find that the rules have changed.

 

[Widge]

I think to get any concessions on import or vat, you would have had to be the owner of the vehicle for 12 months, I dont think that you could get away with anyone else being the owner.

Just to add to

I think to get any concessions on import or vat, you would have had to be the owner of the vehicle for 12 months, I dont think that you could get away with anyone else being the owner.

Just to add to my comment, remember the name on a UK V5 or french carte grise has nothing to do with the owner, it is the registered keeper, I dont think that there is any problem with you buying it and having your dads name on the carte grise, in fact, if you can get you name added to one of your dads utility bills EDF for example, you could probably get away with adding your name to the carte grise as well as your dads.
It would cause problems if you were going to do finance to buy it as you would either have to be a french resident or import the vehicle straight away to satisfy a french or UK finance company.

But I am far from an expert and might be talking nonsense.

One last thing, it might not just be the vehicle that needs to be out of the country for a year, the owner/importer might need to be as well.

Good luck

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[Lenny HB]

If that was all pre Brexit I think you will find that the rules have changed.

All imports you now have to pay vat except for personal vehicles you bring back after living abroad.

 

[nicholsong]

All imports you now have to pay vat except for personal vehicles you bring back after living abroad.

Lenny HB

Can you please quuote a source as reading through the HMRC blurb I cannot find where it covers having owned a vehicle in the UK, then taken it abroad and subsequently back to UK, which would be or case if we moved back to UK.

Geoff

 

[Lenny HB]

Lenny HB

Can you please quuote a source as reading through the HMRC blurb I cannot find where it covers having owned a vehicle in the UK, then taken it abroad and subsequently back to UK, which would be or case if we moved back to UK.

Geoff

Importing vehicles into the UK

Importing vehicles into the UK - register imported vehicles, GB conversion IVA scheme, type approval, vehicle excise duty and VAT

www.gov.uk

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[funflair]

Lenny HB

Can you please quuote a source as reading through the HMRC blurb I cannot find where it covers having owned a vehicle in the UK, then taken it abroad and subsequently back to UK, which would be or case if we moved back to UK.

Geoff

Have you had a read here Geoff, https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/paying-vat-and-duty

There is a section,

You’re returning an exported vehicle to the UK

No VAT or duty if you qualify for relief

 

[funflair]

Have you had a read here Geoff, https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/paying-vat-and-duty

There is a section,

You’re returning an exported vehicle to the UK

No VAT or duty if you qualify for relief

OK Lenny posted while I was reading "honest"

 

[Carpmart]

If buying in say France, then importing to UK, would one not be able to claim back the French VAT at a French border, then pay the VAT to the UK revenue upon import?

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[MGDavid]

If buying in say France, then importing to UK, would one not be able to claim back the French VAT at a French border, then pay the VAT to the UK revenue upon import?

New, yes in theory (but anecdotally I hear that reclaiming VAT abroad especially the French, is long-winded and painful)
Secondhand, no, because they don't charge VAT or show VAT on the invoice (the VAT is just all-in the value as it would have been paid by the original customer who bought it new).
I would love to be proved wrong but that's what the dealer I'm buying from is telling me.

 

[Lenny HB]

If buying in say France, then importing to UK, would one not be able to claim back the French VAT at a French border, then pay the VAT to the UK revenue upon import?

If buying new you should be able to get the dealer to supply vat free, what some German dealers do is you give them a separate payment for the VAT and they refund you when you have paid the UK VAT. The big but is you need a dealer who is used to selling for export which is not common in France.

 

[Lenny HB]

New, yes in theory (but anecdotally I hear that reclaiming VAT abroad especially the French, is long-winded and painful)
Secondhand, no, because they don't charge VAT or show VAT on the invoice (the VAT is just all-in the value as it would have been paid by the original customer who bought it new).
I would love to be proved wrong but that's what the dealer I'm buying from is telling me.

In the UK dealers normally charge the VAT on difference of the sale & buy in price, I say normally as it is voluntary they can charge the VAT on the full amount. German dealers charge VAT on the full amount, I don't know what the French do.

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[beachwomble]

I did contact a couple of French dealers and none were interested in selling me a van to be exported. French red tape is not worth the hassle in my opinion. Much better to deal with a German dealer with a track record of export sales.

 

[enark]

If that was all pre Brexit I think you will find that the rules have changed.

dont think so, your right it was pre Brexit, but also pre EU/EEC etc, stems from 8 May 1945 for occupying forces, which are no longer referred to as such, but still get the tax breaks….

wonder if fuel coupons are still going…..

 

[MGDavid]

I did contact a couple of French dealers and none were interested in selling me a van to be exported. French red tape is not worth the hassle in my opinion. Much better to deal with a German dealer with a track record of export sales.

In the main I agree but the one I'm talking to have done exports, presumably because they are close to St Malo which makes getting the unit to the port of departure much easier i.e. they can drive it there on their business insurance and I only need to insure from Portsmouth to home. Still looking for recent recommendations for insuring on a VIN number...

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[gus-lopez]

I am referring back to 'fronting'
Everything you need to know about insurance fraud (lv.com)

It isn't illegal only to the insurance company. You can nominate a named driver as the main driver. Always used to be done.
Another was keeping ann old legal car on 3rd party parked up in case you lost the ncb on your main vehcile.it is called working the system, Nothing to do with fraud. that is what the scum want you to believe.

Germany aren't going to waiver their vat for the UK a non EU country surely,

vat free sales if exported to a non eu country. Before

The Registered owner wouldn’t be the main driver - the OP would.

you name the 'secondary ' driver as the main one.perfectly legal.

If buying in say France, then importing to UK, would one not be able to claim back the French VAT at a French border, then pay the VAT to the UK revenue upon import?

Yes but if known to be being exported the vat shouldn't be charged.

Should not be any difference whether new or used .It didn't before we were in the eu.

 

[nicholsong]

Have you had a read here Geoff, https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/paying-vat-and-duty

There is a section,

You’re returning an exported vehicle to the UK

No VAT or duty if you qualify for relief

Lenny HB and funflair

The problem is that it says '...if you qualify for relief', without saying who or how one qualifies for relief.

I probably need to phone them.

Geoff

 

[Widge]

It wouldn't be deception, it doesn't matter who pays for it, the MH would be registered in another family member's name as the owner with BW as a driver on the insurance.

The name on the registration document is the registered keeper, not the owner. Eg if you buy a vehicle on finance or lease it, your name will be on the registration document, but you dont own it.

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[jongood]

New, yes in theory (but anecdotally I hear that reclaiming VAT abroad especially the French, is long-winded and painful)
Secondhand, no, because they don't charge VAT or show VAT on the invoice (the VAT is just all-in the value as it would have been paid by the original customer who bought it new).
I would love to be proved wrong but that's what the dealer I'm buying from is telling me.

Sounds like its a Hymer product, lots of dealers out in EU land, might it be worth trying a few of the experienced selkers to UK buyers, Campirama, would be on my list, but there are plenty of others, especially if stock is starting to catch up a bit.

 

[funflair]

Lenny HB and funflair

The problem is that it says '...if you qualify for relief', without saying who or how one qualifies for relief.

I probably need to phone them.

Geoff

I think there may be a few if's and but's so yes you might be right to have a conversation.

 

[Peter Clark]

If you are UK resident and importing a vehicle as long as it is 6 months old and 6000km then you don’t pay VAT although that is from Germany not sure about other countries.
We have done it 3 times now.

Just had a detailed conversation with HMRC - I was going to buy a used MH from a private seller in Germany.

On any vehicle under 30 years old 20% VAT is charged when importing to UK, from any EU country - whether bought from dealer or privately.

If vehicle is over 30 years old VAT is charged at 5%.

If you buy from dealer who is charging VAT, then you can arrange not to pay VAT to the dealer and pay the VAT in the UK - if you pay VAT to the dealer and try to reclaim it in the UK I’m told it is a tortuous business.

These rules came into effect when we officially left the EU.

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[nicholsong]

I think there may be a few if's and but's so yes you might be right to have a conversation.

Of course as a lawyer I can have my conversation 'Representing Client X'. I also have a friend with a similar problem with the boat that I transferred to him, so I can include a MH and a boat in the goods of Client X.

 

[Motörhead Fun]

So, can I arrange a temporary address in NI and import from EU to NI with no VAT? Once registered in NI (i.e. the UK) can I then just change address to GB?

 

[Soycd]

At the minute some German dealers when buying a new Motorhome agree vat free and you pay in this country so surely some would do the same for used?

That never used to happen before the the b word. You could only get the MWST (VAT) off new vehicles for some reason. I asked when we got our last van from Germany in 2018 which was not new.

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[MGDavid]

Sounds like its a Hymer product, lots of dealers out in EU land, might it be worth trying a few of the experienced selkers to UK buyers, Campirama, would be on my list, but there are plenty of others, especially if stock is starting to catch up a bit.

Yes it is a Carado (Hymer). We bought our previous one new from Campirama and have been back every year for the free damp check and the odd small parts so know them well, outstanding service and couldn't be nicer or more helpful to do business with. Unfortunately our next one is a specific model & spec which are currently only being built on Citroen chassis which I wont have; there are only a couple of s/hand Ducato ones in Europe, one near Toulouse (!) and the other conveniently near St Malo so we are going for that one. It won't save me any money but it won't cost more than new either - plus we don't have to wait up to two years for a new one.