How clever are the EU's border forces?

[Augusta08]

We are told that post-Brexit we will be allowed to be in the EU no more than 90 days in a rolling 180 day period.

Every year I take the MoHo down to Spain for the winter, staying January thru mid-March. So for 2020 I've already booked 5th Jan thru 7th March, via BF Porstsmouth Santander. (62 days)

Then later in March I go to my home in France for 30 days.

So I'm OTT immediately.

So do you think they will twig it? Is Spain going to pass my records over to France?

Could I get away with saying I spent a week in Andorra?

The rest of the year is not probematic... I think. I come back to the UK for May and most of June, spend a week in Belgium in late June, via Calais (Spa race week). Then I go back to France for July , August and first week of September (68 days) then back to the UK for Sept-late October, then back to France for 15 Days in November.

This is the "normal" cycle of the year for me, does anyone think they're connected enough to cause problems?

I calculated this year to be almost exactly 50/50 in the UK and Europe.

 

[MichaelT]

I thought it was 90 days in 180 so you would have to be back 6 months before going again? I think you can apply for a visa for longer stays.

Not sure if all the border forces computer systems are linked up to know that you entered Spain on X date which is then shared throughout the EU to check but one thing to watch for will be insurance as you will clearly be over the limit unless you can take out extra to cover.

 

[JJ]

If I were you I wouldn't worry about any of it.

I don't.


JJ

 

[DavidG58]

For the sake of 2 days why not just come back from your second trip after 28 days not 30 ?

Avoid any issues at all

 

[SteveJulesMontycame2]

It’s not that you’re allowed 90 days in Spain, France etc, rather it’s on entering and leaving the Schengen area. So if you leave Schengen (ie come back to the uk), when you try to re enter and your passport is scanned, the time you’ve already spent should flag up. UK already has a system that records every passport entry and exit from and into the UK; why wouldn’t the Schengen points of entry have the same Post Brexit?

Schengen Area and Visa Requirements: Comprehensive Information for Travelers

Discover everything you need to know about the Schengen Area and Schengen Visa requirements. Your ultimate guide for hassle-free travel across Europe.

www.schengenvisainfo.com

Probably not ready now, but will come in when they set up the new electronic visa system (like the USA Esta).

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[treetops1]

The last two times I went to France .the last time we stayed ,4 months the time before 4.5 months .On returning and handing over our paperwork including two dogs and a cat ,nobody battered an eyelid

 

[addoaddo]

Just get a visa

 

[PeteH]

Anything based on experience NOW. Will be up for grabs, if Brexit goes thorough,

My gut feeling is that we would finish up with a system like the US has. There you can stay 90 days IF you have the "Machine Readable" passport (US immigration words not mine), The ESTA scheme, after which you must exit to your country of residence (not a 3rd party state), which stops people just going to Canada or Mexico to "reset" the timing, which used to happen a lot. If you apply for and are granted a 10year Visa. you can stay up to 6 months in any period. I (we) have been back to the US after as little as 3 months in the past, even after having previously been out there for 5-6Months travelling, without triggering any sort of issue with immigration. However I do have a son who is a US citizen, but don`t know IF or how that would make any difference.

The likelihood would be that you would have to get a Visa to travel the EU. Which would cover for ALL EU states. But that is only my guess.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Hang on- You are "TOLD" by who??

The Ministry of Guesswork

 

[bobandjanie]

When we came back to the UK last year, we were asked what was the purpose of our visit and how long we was staying, UK citizens Spanish residents.

This could be useful.

Schengen-calculator

Bob.

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[Pete5996]

I don't think the border guards will need to be that clever. Once ETIAS is up and running, your passport will be recorded entering and exiting the Schengen area, with penalties if you exceed the limits, including being barred from re-entering for up to 5 years if you take the mickey, I believe.
As for obtaining a visa, getting an extension beyond the 90 days seems to be difficult and only issued for certain reasons, none of them being prolonging your holiday.
That's as I see it at present....

 

[Ivory55]

If they are that clever how come they have so many illegal migrants there.

 

[ChrisL]

If they are that clever how come they have so many illegal migrants there.

Possibly because the illegal immigrants don't have passports and are not driving vehicles with number plates on them so are unrecorded.

 

[PeteH]

If they are that clever how come they have so many illegal migrants there.

Oh! the Border force can catch them OK, 80 last night alone I understand. What they DONT do (and should) is put them straight back on a FRENCH beach, after Photgraphing, Fingerprinting and taking DNA. NOT bring them to the UK!. Same with the one`s who actually manage to land here.

 

[Paddywack]

The last two times I went to France .the last time we stayed ,4 months the time before 4.5 months .On returning and handing over our paperwork including two dogs and a cat ,nobody battered an eyelid

Do you not think that might be down to the fact that we are still in the EU and enjoy full freedom of movement?

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[Ivory55]

Possibly because the illegal immigrants don't have passports and are not driving vehicles with number plates on them so are unrecorded.

Which proves that they are not very clever if they can only do something if you explain it all for them.

 

[Allanm]

The last two times I went to France .the last time we stayed ,4 months the time before 4.5 months .On returning and handing over our paperwork including two dogs and a cat ,nobody battered an eyelid

What happens now is really of no consequence with regards to what will happen when the UK leaves the EU. At the moment there is still free movement and checks on the amount of time you spend in EU countries isnt strictly monitored.
However, once the UK leaves there will be checks carried out, possibly by recording or stamping passports and if you are found overstaying in a Shengen zone, it won’t be the UK border force that takes action.

Remember, some people voted for this to happen!

This is from the Shengen info website.

If you are being tempted to do such thing, you should just know the following things:


First thing that you should know, is that an overstayed visa never goes unnoticed. The immigration authorities have registered in their databases every person that enters and leaves the Schengen, and every overstaying, even just for a day, is recorded.

Secondly, intentional or unintentional, no overstaying is left unpunished. It could be a fine, immediate deportation or even getting banned from entering the Schengen Zone for a specific amount of time.

Finally, yet importantly, it does not matter if you have entered Schengen territory on a Schengen Visa, or if you are the national of a country, to which a visa waiver has been applied. You are not allowed to overstay the 90 days amount of permitted stay per 180 days, even if you belong to one of the latter. It does not also matter if you are overstaying a Schengen tourist visa or you are overstaying a student visa. There is a visa overstaying penalty for each, and if you do such thing, you will get yours.

Consequences of overstaying in Schengen Zone
Despite that there is not a common policy for all Schengen Member States on the overstaying penalties, each of the states applies different types of penalties.

Therefore, the consequences of overstaying in Schengen territory, whether your visa or the permitted 90 days for nationals of the countries under the visa-waiver program, depend a lot on the number of days you have overstayed, and the country you get caught in. Germany is known to have the strictest immigration laws in the EU in this direction; while Greece is known for applying very high fines to those caught overstaying.

In general, all of the member states apply one of the following types of penalties for overstaying a Schengen visa or a permitted stay.

Deportation
When you get caught staying illegally in Europe, you will totally be deported to you home country. The deportation procedures depend on your case and the country where you are caught. You may be deported immediately, within just a few hours or after a few days. On the other hand, if you get caught engaging in paid activity while overstaying your visa, or engaging in illegal activities, you will most possibly be taken into custody where you will wait for your trial. If you are found guilty then you will be held in prison or fined with a high amount of money. Upon completing the punishment, you will then be deported to you home country and banned from entering the Schengen for a specific amount of time.

Deportation is always followed by another consequence. Usually you will know about it before being deported, since you will receive the decision on you case. If you have just overstayed a few days, and you are lucky to be caught in one of the countries that go easy on overstayers, you may leave without another penalty.

 

[WESTY66]

Deportation
When you get caught staying illegally in Europe, you will totally be deported to you home country. The deportation procedures depend on your case and the country where you are caught. You may be deported immediately, within just a few hours or after a few days. On the other hand, if you get caught engaging in paid activity while overstaying your visa, or engaging in illegal activities, you will most possibly be taken into custody where you will wait for your trial. If you are found guilty then you will be held in prison or fined with a high amount of money. Upon completing the punishment, you will then be deported to you home country and banned from entering the Schengen for a specific amount of time.

Deportation is always followed by another consequence. Usually you will know about it before being deported, since you will receive the decision on you case. If you have just overstayed a few days, and you are lucky to be caught in one of the countries that go easy on overstayers, you may leave without another penalty.

Does that include ALL the illegals near all the ports??? Aren’t they in Europe illegally??
They know they’re illegals but they aren’t deporting many of them!!

Im not very savvy with the Schengen area, but correct me if I’m wrong, it means free movement of people right? Do they still need to show passports at some borders within Schengen?

 

[PeteH]

Deportation
When you get caught staying illegally in Europe, you will totally be deported to you home country. The deportation procedures depend on your case and the country where you are caught. You may be deported immediately, within just a few hours or after a few days. On the other hand, if you get caught engaging in paid activity while overstaying your visa, or engaging in illegal activities, you will most possibly be taken into custody where you will wait for your trial. If you are found guilty then you will be held in prison or fined with a high amount of money. Upon completing the punishment, you will then be deported to you home country and banned from entering the Schengen for a specific amount of time.

SO why are so many STILL in illegal "Camps" being ALLOWED to try and enter the UK?, in France (Shengen)??. Under that rule they should ALL be back wherever they came from?.

 

[PeteH]

Does that include ALL the illegals near all the ports??? Aren’t they in Europe illegally??
They know they’re illegals but they aren’t deporting many of them!!

Im not very savvy with the Schengen area, but correct me if I’m wrong, it means free movement of people right? Do they still need to show passports at some borders within Schengen?

Bu*****r Beat me to it

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[Allanm]

Does that include ALL the illegals near all the ports??? Aren’t they in Europe illegally??
They know they’re illegals but they aren’t deporting many of them!!

Im not very savvy with the Schengen area, but correct me if I’m wrong, it means free movement of people right? Do they still need to show passports at some borders within Schengen?

Illegal immigrants are a different case to people entering a Shengen zone on holiday!
Shengen zones allow free movement to all people living within other Shengen zones.
Deportation of illegal immigrants, though not easy at the moment, will become more difficult in the future. It won’t be possible to just send them to the nearest EU country (France at the moment) so will probably mean more will be allowed to stay, either legally or illegally.

SO why are so many STILL in illegal "Camps" being ALLOWED to try and enter the UK?, in France (Shengen)??. Under that rule they should ALL be back wherever they came from?.

I guess there are rules on how or where people are to be deported to, I’m not an expert but common sense says that if they haven’t been deported there must be a reason. I suppose if you really wanted to know you could contact the French border force or ask them what they doing about those people staying in their country when you next pass through French Border control to France.

And are they being allowed to try and enter the U.K? By your logic, the French should be happy that they are leaving a Shengen zone, it’s up to the U.K border force to stop people illegally entering the U.K.

 

[PeteH]

when you next pass through French Border control to France.

Not happening anytime soon!. Cannot even get Med cover for Near continent. As SWMBO is still not cleared to travel.

 

[MichaelT]

Does that include ALL the illegals near all the ports??? Aren’t they in Europe illegally??
They know they’re illegals but they aren’t deporting many of them!!

Im not very savvy with the Schengen area, but correct me if I’m wrong, it means free movement of people right? Do they still need to show passports at some borders within Schengen?

I do not think they are all strictly illegal as if they have been processed and given documents when they entered the EU (even on a boat over the Med) then they have a right to be there but not in the UK as we are not in the Schengen zone.

 

[Speve]

Well until all the border crossings are manned and everyone stopped for checks it not going to happen over night as they have done away with all the facilities.?

 

[wileyfox]

There are only border posts when leaving the shengan area .

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[Allanm]

The new Entry Exit System is supposed to be operational in 2020. Visitors to the Schengen Zone will ( maybe) have fingerprints and photos taken on entry, so a lot of changes ( and probably long queues) are due at the borders soon.
Information on Third Country Nationals (TCN) travelling or visiting will be recorded electronically and this equipment will be portable, so people in TCN registered vehicles could be checked easily at anytime by the authorities.

 

[PeteH]

It`s Only what WE should be doing anyway!.

BTW. Texas was introducing a similar system (Portable) to try and deal with a growing concern over ILLEGAL migrants back in 2008.

 

[busby]

The last two times I went to France .the last time we stayed ,4 months the time before 4.5 months .On returning and handing over our paperwork including two dogs and a cat ,nobody battered an eyelid

Why would they? we are still members of the EU,,Not for long though,,BUSBY.

 

[ChrisL]

Perhaps those of us that want to have extended periods away in the motorhome should be looking at Morroco and Turkey to spend our pension money in and just transit the Schengen countries or spend limited time there so as not to break the rules, or maybe they will come up with an extended visa for retirees.

 

[JJ]

I very, very, very strongly believe that no one actually knows what the (pathetic) rules and (stupid) regulations about visiting Europe will be in the future.

If the (so called) UK government (what a joke) doesn't know what will be agreed or not agreed then I am bloody certain no one on Fun has any clue.


JJ

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