Heat Exchanger operation

[funflair]

To my knowledge N&B do not fit the engine heating pump to allow you to heat the engine whilst stationary as standard. Hence my post that the control panel functionality does nothing.

I would have thought it was all part of the heat exchanger option, ours certainly has it, it's a Johnson pump and I know where it is.

Martin

 

[peterc10]

To my knowledge N&B do not fit the engine heating pump to allow you to heat the engine whilst stationary as standard. Hence my post that the control panel functionality does nothing.

In that case you should not need an additional switched pump, because that is all it is for. The Engine's own circulating pump provides water to the heat exchanger when the engine is running.

 

[Theonlysue]

On the previous hymer had to turn pump on and change from therm to continious, so there was no temperature set. It would be really warm. Great on a cold day. Then reset to therm when camped up. When really cold, minus 15 at one point, turned on to warm engine up for an hour.
Need to read up on new hymer but i know its got diesel heating that can be used when parked up as well as heat exchanger.

 

[stewartwebr]

In that case you should not need an additional switched pump, because that is all it is for. The Engine's own circulating pump provides water to the heat exchanger when the engine is running.

Exactly, its a generic control panel with functionality not enabled, well was in my Flair. I had the heat exchanger which would heat the van by switching on the Alde and opening the valve on the heat exchanger. The operation of said control panel switch enabled nothing as N&B had not installed a pump to revers heat the engine. I had this function in a few Burstner Elegances' but not the Flair

 

[Sundowners]

On our N+B flair we have a switch on the motorhome (not Alde) control panel that has a sort of radiator pic and motor next to it , .This switches on a pump to circulate Alde heated water around the engine--------- when heating the van from the engine this is not required as the engine water pump circulates hot water through the heat exchanger, ---------- we think you are lucky to have this system as it works really well!!!!!!

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[BobtheBass]

On our new Hymer we have an Alde heat exchanger with no apparent valve but we do have an unidentified switch on the Fiat dash with a picture of a fan on it. It doesn't seem to do anything but we haven't tried the heating out properly. Could this be to turn the heat exchanger on? There is also a switch with a blue light on under one of the single beds which seems to turn a fan on to blow air over the underfloor radiators. Is this a bedroom heat boost or maybe for heating the water tanks? No mention of either switch in the van manual.

 

[TerryL]

Well you live and learn!
But it all looks very complicated to me. Think I'l stick to my basic Truma warm air and instead go visit warmer climates, i.e. Morocco, when it gets cold!

 

[tonyidle]

On the previous hymer had to turn pump on and change from therm to continious, so there was no temperature set. It would be really warm. Great on a cold day. Then reset to therm when camped up. When really cold, minus 15 at one point, turned on to warm engine up for an hour.
Need to read up on new hymer but i know its got diesel heating that can be used when parked up as well as heat exchanger.

My Le Voyageur has an Eberspacher just for engine heating (it's a Mercedes option) so it has it's own pump to circulate engine coolant when in use. Then, entirely separate, it has the Alde heat exchanger. There is a control on the front edge of the drivers seat to close off the engine coolant from the heat exchanger. I tend to leave the Alde switched to 240v all the time so when the wall sensor calls for heat when the van is being driven the Alde pump will run. I can't see any issue with the way it all works - this is the most even and comfortable heating system I've ever had in a leisure vehicle. It's brilliant (and it includes underfloor heating too).

 

[Theonlysue]

Warm tootsies!

 

[tonyidle]

Warm tootsies!

For the first time in any leisure vehicle (and the dogs love it) .

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[Sundowners]

On our N+B flair we have a switch on the motorhome (not Alde) control panel that has a sort of radiator pic and motor next to it , .This switches on a pump to circulate Alde heated water around the engine--------- when heating the van from the engine this is not required as the engine water pump circulates hot water through the heat exchanger, ---------- we think you are lucky to have this system as it works really well!!!!!!

But don't forget to switch it off. We've had it on unknowingly on a hot day, phew!

 

[funflair]

But don't forget to switch it off. We've had it on unknowingly on a hot day, phew!

Sometimes in the summer I proclaim in a rather critical tone "you have the B heating on" and then realise it's my fault for not turning the valve

Martin

 

[dabhand]

I have no idea if I’ve got one or not! Pictures of heat exchanger, dash switches and under seat valves/unit please

 

[Brian and Jo]

Hi Brian

I could be wrong BUT I have a feeling that the button you mention third from left is actually to turn on a pump to circulate the engine cooling water through your heat exchanger when you are parked up and the engine is really cold, try it and listen to check if you can hear a pump running.

So do you know where the heat exchanger is? and does it have an isolation valve on it? the operation as far as I know is,

1/ make sure that the heat exchanger itself is not isolated.

2/ set the pump to on in the Alde control panel but select gas and electric to off

3/ make sure that the pump is on thermo and then set the temperature as required

then it just looks after itself.

Martin

Hi Martin I’ve done some more digging today and also spoke to someone on the Alde stand and firstly I have located the exchanger and it is where jongoode said behind the drivers seat in the double floor so according to Alde you do what you have said and that is make sure the exchanger is not isolated,turn off the electric & gas and turn the temp up to 30 deg. and hopefully that’s it so will try on our way home on Thursday,so thx Martin & Jon
Brian & Jo

 

[TheBig1]

Perhaps I did not have the flow adjuster by the steering wheel open enough, then..

Our`s only got lukewarm...

It is seized part open Mo, a job I keep meaning to tackle

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[funflair]

Hi Martin I’ve done some more digging today and also spoke to someone on the Alde stand and firstly I have located the exchanger and it is where jongoode said behind the drivers seat in the double floor so according to Alde you do what you have said and that is make sure the exchanger is not isolated,turn off the electric & gas and turn the temp up to 30 deg. and hopefully that’s it so will try on our way home on Thursday,so thx Martin & Jon
Brian & Jo

Nice one Brian, 30 deg should be toasty.

Martin

 

[Brian and Jo]

Well just arrived back from the NEC,before leaving followed advice from Martin & Jonegood & Alde and lo and behold heat exchanger working a treat lovely comfortable temperature throughout the motorhome, well pleased thank you guys.
Brian & Jo

 

[Southdowners]

Hi Martin I’ve done some more digging today and also spoke to someone on the Alde stand and firstly I have located the exchanger and it is where jongoode said behind the drivers seat in the double floor so according to Alde you do what you have said and that is make sure the exchanger is not isolated,turn off the electric & gas and turn the temp up to 30 deg. and hopefully that’s it so will try on our way home on Thursday,so thx Martin & Jon
Brian & Jo

Thanks for the info. Did the guys at Alde say anything about what setting you need to select on the pump?

I don't find the Alde instructions very clear.

 

[Brian and Jo]

Thanks for the info. Did the guys at Alde say anything about what setting you need to select on the pump?

I don't find the Alde instructions very clear.

Hi there ,I don’t quite understand ,I thought the pump was either on or off ,I didn’t realise there was different settings for it.They certainly never mentioned that. Or am I wrong?
Brian & Jo

 

[funflair]

The pump needs to be set to therm as opposed to continuous and the room thermostat set to your desired temperature then when the stat call for heat it starts the pump which circulates the heating system glycol through the heath exchanger that has hot engine coolant going through it via the engine water pump and voila toasty warm van.

Martin

Its much easier I think on this old controller,

From left to right Elec off Gas off pump first position and stat to desired temp, done.

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[Southdowners]

Thanks Martin.

Numpty question coming up... I assume the heating fluid is in a separate system to the fluid in the engine and that the two don't combine during the process?

I know that the heat from the engine transfers to the hab heating system but I'm unsure of the actual process. Can you explain in layman's terms please?

Sorry... just thought of something else. Do you have the pump on continuous when not travelling and just put it on thermo when travelling and want to use the heat exchanger?

 

[Sheddy]

I have no idea if I’ve got one or not! Pictures of heat exchanger, dash switches and under seat valves/unit please

Our dash control.

No idea where the heat exchanger or valves are but it works.
Cheers
Ed

 

[Brian and Jo]

The pump needs to be set to therm as opposed to continuous and the room thermostat set to your desired temperature then when the stat call for heat it starts the pump which circulates the heating system glycol through the heath exchanger that has hot engine coolant going through it via the engine water pump and voila toasty warm van.

Martin

Its much easier I think on this old controller,

View attachment 262455

From left to right Elec off Gas off pump first position and stat to desired temp, done.

Hi Martin as you probably know our controller is the 3020 and I didn’t alter the pump ,I just turned the temp up to max 30 as instructed by Steve at Alde and with the gas and electric off it worked a treat.To be honest Mart as long as someone explains something to me that’s good enough for me ,I’m not into all the technicalities of it all ,I just want to know how to operate it One thing I do know is that your post are always very helpful,me being a techno thicko and all
Brian & Jo

 

[peterc10]

Thanks Martin.

Numpty question coming up... I assume the heating fluid is in a separate system to the fluid in the engine and that the two don't combine during the process?

I know that the heat from the engine transfers to the hab heating system but I'm unsure of the actual process. Can you explain in layman's terms please?

They do not mix. The heat exchanger allows the heat from one to warm up the other in the same way as a radiator allows the hot water to heat up the air around it.

 

[funflair]

I don't know if this help anybody,

This is the heat exchanger, basically it s a block of metal plates that makes alternate layer of engine coolant and Alde heating fluid so the heat transfer is very efficient due to the large surface are gained by the multiple plates, the pipe with the black tap is the Alde circulation side and the tap is to stop any thermal circulation during the summer.

Martin

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[funflair]

Thanks Martin.

Numpty question coming up... I assume the heating fluid is in a separate system to the fluid in the engine and that the two don't combine during the process?

I know that the heat from the engine transfers to the hab heating system but I'm unsure of the actual process. Can you explain in layman's terms please?

Sorry... just thought of something else. Do you have the pump on continuous when not travelling and just put it on thermo when travelling and want to use the heat exchanger?

When you are using the system on gas or electric the continuous setting runs the pump continuously and controls the room temperature by allowing the thermostat to control the boiler temperature giving good even heat with no on/off cycle BUT poor hot water temperature because the domestic water temperature matches the heating temperature.

When you set on thermo and using gas/elec the thermostat cycles the pump on/off while the boiler sits at max temperature so there is always hot water.

So when you are travelling the heat source is in the heat exchanger and continuous setting on the pump would be flat out heating with no control, remember on gas/elec it works by controlling the boiler temperature but no boiler, So when travelling you set the pump to Thermo which is a pump on/off cycle controlled as required by the room thermostat,

We never use continuous setting

Martin

 

[Brian and Jo]

When you are using the system on gas or electric the continuous setting runs the pump continuously and controls the room temperature by allowing the thermostat to control the boiler temperature giving good even heat with no on/off cycle BUT poor hot water temperature because the domestic water temperature matches the heating temperature.

When you set on thermo and using gas/elec the thermostat cycles the pump on/off while the boiler sits at max temperature so there is always hot water.

So when you are travelling the heat source is in the heat exchanger and continuous setting on the pump would be flat out heating with no control, remember on gas/elec it works by controlling the boiler temperature but no boiler, So when travelling you set the pump to Thermo which is a pump on/off cycle controlled as required by the room thermostat,

We never use continuous setting

Martin

Martin have you got a set of Alde encyclopaedias to hand or what
Brian & Jo

Excellent

 

[funflair]

Martin have you got a set of Alde encyclopaedias to hand or what
Brian & Jo

Excellent

Hi Brian

I like to know how things work, I left school and went into a mechanical engineering apprenticeship with ICI, part of the training was looking at things like pressure control valves, automatic steam condensate drains, air hoist controls systems etc etc, they told you what the thing did but you had to take it apart and work out how it did it and then describe it with drawings and text, I suppose I still like the challenge.

I used to work on heat exchangers that were as big as me and had Nitric Acid in one side and hot water in the other.

The problem with things today is that it is all moving towards electronics and "black magic" maybe I need to retrain

Martin

 

[mojo]

Hi Martin I’ve done some more digging today and also spoke to someone on the Alde stand and firstly I have located the exchanger and it is where jongoode said behind the drivers seat in the double floor so according to Alde you do what you have said and that is make sure the exchanger is not isolated,turn off the electric & gas and turn the temp up to 30 deg. and hopefully that’s it so will try on our way home on Thursday,so thx Martin & Jon
Brian & Jo

That's what we have done for last year.Works perfectly.