Have Ducato gears got higher?

[Folkranger]

Just wondering.
My 2014 motorhome - 2.3 &148bhp allowed me to comfortably travel in 6th gear for most of the time. Rpm at 65mph was about 3000.

My 2017 model - 2.3 & 150bhp seems to need to change from 6th gear regularly, even on motorways and the 65mph speed seems to generate nearer 2000rpm. (Not exact rpm figures, just from memory.)

 

[pappajohn]

The newer model may have larger wheels.

 

[Folkranger]

Possibly, but it feels a lot more than a 16:15 difference. I see my road fund tax reduced from (I think) about £240 to about £160, I suppose less polluting engine or could that partly be more mpg due to gearing.

 

[Bobby-gg]

My 2008 3.0 Ducato is pulling around 2000 rpm at 65 mph

And if your rfl is approx £160 per year that suggests that your Motorhome is over 3.5t and is in the PHGV tax class

 

[martin2603]

The Euro 6 engines have different torque bands to their predecessors. The revs need to be higher to keep max torque . So basically they do appear to be overgeared when driving. However my 5 ton tag still returns 24mpg overall .

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[chaser]

My 2008 3.0 Ducato is pulling around 2000 rpm at 65 mph

And if your rfl is approx £160 per year that suggests that your Motorhome is over 3.5t and is in the PHGV tax class

Obviously you are now pulling more weight, with the same engine.

 

[Landy Andy]

I’ve just gone up one tyre size, and really notice it. So it doesn’t take much.

 

[mikebeaches]

Just wondering.
My 2014 motorhome - 2.3 &148bhp allowed me to comfortably travel in 6th gear for most of the time. Rpm at 65mph was about 3000.

I'd be slightly surprised if the rpm was 3,000 at 65mph in 6th gear?

 

[Kups]

I'm considering remapping my 2020 manual Ducato as there's a constant need to change between 5th and 6th to maintain around 65 mph. That's even with 160 bhp.

 

[funflair]

The latest automatics have more gears than the manual version or even the older autos consequently I believe that most if not all have a higher top gear, our 8 speed ZF is about 1.5 gears higher than the previous 6 speed manual was.

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[Diabalo]

My 2.3 in 6th is 56 mph @ 2000 rpm. It goes very well up hills but it has been mapped from 130 to 160 bhp but that doesn't alter the rpm to speed side of things.

 

[dunnah01]

I'm considering remapping my 2020 manual Ducato as there's a constant need to change between 5th and 6th to maintain around 65 mph. That's even with 160 bhp.

My 160bhp 2011 3.0litre auto never feels like it needs to change down from 6th at 65mph no matter what the gradient (within reason) - just shows how torque is a better measure than the usually advertised bhp.

 

[Jamesh]

I’ve just gone up one tyre size, and really notice it. So it doesn’t take much.

What size did you go from to???

I'm thinking of going from 235 65 16 up to 225 75 16 as I find the 65 quite crashy. (conti vancos)

Will bring the Speedo up to accurate according the GPS / flashing speed signs.
Cheers James

Cheers James

 

[Richard n Ann]

My mate had a new transit that wouldn't pull top gear, had to have it remapped.
It's like going back to the Ford vans of the 1990s

 

[tonyidle]

A part of the issue is the "need" to get into "top" gear. We all have it brought on by having driven four speed vehicles. The answer is to use whichever gear the vehicle is comfortable with for the road you're on. "Top gear" on any modern vehicle will be indirect and higher than 1:1 so is as efficient as any of the other gears. Try driving in third continuously on a four speed and gearbox life would be very short. An extreme case was my Dad who having bought a 6 speed Japanese motorcycle (his first) sold it pretty quickly because he couldn't use top gear in town.

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[Steve devon]

Never mind going forward, my 16 plate 3 litre is geared way to high in reverse, constant clutch riding is required for a gentle slope even

 

[Folkranger]

My 2008 3.0 Ducato is pulling around 2000 rpm at 65 mph

And if your rfl is approx £160 per year that suggests that your Motorhome is over 3.5t and is in the PHGV tax class

3850kg

 

[Folkranger]

The Euro 6 engines have different torque bands to their predecessors. The revs need to be higher to keep max torque . So basically they do appear to be overgeared when driving. However my 5 ton tag still returns 24mpg overall .

I assume by my reg that I am euro 5. My 3850kg is getting 27 mpg.

 

[gus-lopez]

Possibly, but it feels a lot more than a 16:15 difference. I see my road fund tax reduced from (I think) about £240 to about £160, I suppose less polluting engine or could that partly be more mpg due to gearing.

That's more because you are over 3500kgs

I'm thinking of going from 235 65 16 up to 225 75 16 as I find the 65 quite crashy. (conti vancos)

That's the width or the tyre & will not make a difference it is the diameter 16",15", 17" ,18" etc that makes a difference

My mate had a new transit that wouldn't pull top gear, had to have it remapped.
It's like going back to the Ford vans of the 1990s

years back / had anew 1400cc escort van. In 5th you could tell if the motorway was rising 1" over 10 miles as it would start to labour. Only vehicle I have ever had that required constant gear changing on an empty motorway.

Try driving in third continuously on a four speed and gearbox life would be very short.

My Kia Carnival (sedona) auto they recommended that you travelled in 3rd gear all the time when towing. It was impossible for it to tow here legally at 80kph in top with lock up. So best you could do was 105kph when it would stay in top.

 

[Folkranger]

I'd be slightly surprised if the rpm was 3,000 at 65mph in 6th gear?

From memory, but this one is certainly a lot lower at 2000 ish.

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[Folkranger]

I'm considering remapping my 2020 manual Ducato as there's a constant need to change between 5th and 6th to maintain around 65 mph. That's even with 160 bhp.

Sounds like mine. I'm OK at 70, but when the traffic flow slows to say 60 even the slightest incline requires a change of gear.

 

[Bobby-gg]

3850kg

So that explains your road fund licence then

 

[Folkranger]

A part of the issue is the "need" to get into "top" gear. We all have it brought on by having driven four speed vehicles. The answer is to use whichever gear the vehicle is comfortable with for the road you're on. "Top gear" on any modern vehicle will be indirect and higher than 1:1 so is as efficient as any of the other gears. Try driving in third continuously on a four speed and gearbox life would be very short. An extreme case was my Dad who having bought a 6 speed Japanese motorcycle (his first) sold it pretty quickly because he couldn't use top gear in town.

So true but I'm trying to understand the big difference between my 2014 and similar 2017 vehicles.

 

[tonyidle]

My Kia Carnival (sedona) auto they recommended that you travelled in 3rd gear all the time when towing. It was impossible for it to tow here legally at 80kph in top with lock up. So best you could do was 105kph when it would stay in top

Autos very different of course.

 

[Folkranger]

So that explains your road fund licence then

Haven't looked at that side of things but are you saying rfl is lower with a heavier vehicle?

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[bertiebasset]

Yes, one of the great anomalies in life. My 4 tonne moho is PHGV and taxed at £165

 

[bertiebasset]

I retired from HGV driving 10 years ago and potter about at around the same speeds I used to rush round at. At 56ish mph I too return about 27 mpg at 2000 revs but need to use lower gears if she spots a hill in the distance. Life never changes really.

 

[Lenny HB]

I assume by my reg that I am euro 5. My 3850kg is getting 27 mpg.

2017 should be Euro 6.
We had a 2014, 150hp, 3850kg, on 15“ wheels. Current van is 2017, 150hp, 4500kg, 16" wheels.
Both Comfortmatics only difference we really notice is the newer van is slightly more sluggish due to the weight. Changes up to 6th at 47/48 mph (true speed not Fiat speed) and back down to 5th at 42mph.

 

[Stealaway]

I'm considering remapping my 2020 manual Ducato as there's a constant need to change between 5th and 6th to maintain around 65 mph. That's even with 160 bhp.

I'm not surprised You're thrashing it's nuts off. It's a van shaped like a brick wieghing 3.5 tonnes plus

 

[Jamesh]

That's more because you are over 3500kgs

That's the width or the tyre & will not make a difference it is the diameter 16",15", 17" ,18" etc that makes a difference

years back / had anew 1400cc escort van. In 5th you could tell if the motorway was rising 1" over 10 miles as it would start to labour. Only vehicle I have ever had that required constant gear changing on an empty motorway.

My Kia Carnival (sedona) auto they recommended that you travelled in 3rd gear all the time when towing. It was impossible for it to tow here legally at 80kph in top with lock up. So best you could do was 105kph when it would stay in top.

It's the aspect ratio that makes the difference imho low aspect ratio 54 60 65 will give a harder ride all things being equal that a 70 75 85 ratio due to the lack of sidewall flex. As well as the smaller air volume too.

Cheers James

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