GM clean air plan

[Simon Meadwell]

What would you do. Purchased our new to us A class last year before we had even heard of the above. Now due to it being 3650kg there is a charge of £60 per day to drive in Greater Manchester ( not just the city). It would cost us £1200 a year in charges if we continue the same amount of holidays.

 

[gus-lopez]

What would you do.

shoot the mayor & councillors not on then?

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Not ideal, how about storage outside the zone .?

 

[Simon Meadwell]

Thought about that but its a big area . Also thought about down plating but dont think we can run at 3500kg. Im not a ludite and we all know we have to save the planet but one size fits all as a hgv just isnt fair. If i buy a V12 petrol Range Rover and twin axle caravan i can drive round for free.

 

[Simon Meadwell]

I have just worked out its less than a 1/4 of a mile from storage to the m60 cost £60 each way. Cheaper to hire a helicopter. But a hgv can spend all day driving in and around GM for the same. An ill thought out one size fits all tax. Nothing to do with emissions.

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[Figaro]

Do you already keep it in storage then.?
I'd just move it to one outsize CAZ and send Burnham a nasty letter telling him he's introducing a badly thought out plan, or words to that effect.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

I have just worked out its less than a 1/4 of a mile from storage to the m60 cost £60 each way. Cheaper to hire a helicopter. But a hgv can spend all day driving in and around GM for the same. An ill thought out one size fits all tax. Nothing to do with emissions.

To be fair, you have been caught out by this…..but it IS about emissions
Its about incentivising people to buy cleaner vehicles…no one is saying “ if you pay a fine it’s ‘OK to pollute”
HGVs have been Euro 6 for 7 years or more, so there will be relatively very few who venture into the zone if any

Im sure the cheapest short term solution for you is storage outside the zone

 

[jongood]

I have just worked out its less than a 1/4 of a mile from storage to the m60 cost £60 each way. Cheaper to hire a helicopter. But a hgv can spend all day driving in and around GM for the same. An ill thought out one size fits all tax. Nothing to do with emissions.

I totally agree with you, its about time the policy setters appreciated the difference in usage and treated M1 as a different class. Austria is the worst offender and must lose a lot of tourist income through go box

 

[MisterB]

And the zone will only get bigger ...

 

[BillM]

What would you do. Purchased our new to us A class last year before we had even heard of the above. Now due to it being 3650kg there is a charge of £60 per day to drive in Greater Manchester ( not just the city). It would cost us £1200 a year in charges if we continue the same amount of holidays.

So far as I can see you will be classed (Motorhome> 3.5t) as a Private HGV, and will pay £10 a day, not £60….

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[jongood]

On a separate note, the difference in emission s even between the oldest smokiest mh and a br and new theoretically cleaner one would never exceed the emissions from manufacturing a new one. Its fantasyland

 

[Cheshirecat57]

On a separate note, the difference in emission s even between the oldest smokiest mh and a br and new theoretically cleaner one would never exceed the emissions from manufacturing a new one. Its fantasyland

But that is a separate debate and one which is constantly brought up
The policy is coming…..right or wrong….and has been coming for many years….not just last year when the OP bought his motorhome

No point debating the rights or wrongs, OP asked for a ( least bad) solution to his predicament

Surely storage outside the boundary of the zone, ( £10 a week?) which is not that far from where he is , would be the cheapest solution for him, without potentially inducing stress by debating the rights or wrongs of the thinking…that cant be changed

 

[jezport]

If it is registered as M1 category on the V5 the decision has not been made to charge, there is still going to be a consultation .
So get your letters sent to your councillors and MP.

 

[jongood]

But that is a separate debate and one which is constantly brought up
The policy is coming…..right or wrong….and has been coming for many years….not just last year when the OP bought his motorhome

No point debating the rights or wrongs, OP asked for a ( least bad) solution to his predicament

Surely storage outside the boundary of the zone, ( £10 a week?) which is not that far from where he is , would be the cheapest solution for him, without potentially inducing stress by debating the rights or wrongs of the thinking…that cant be changed

IMHO it makes perfect sense to challenge this wooly headed thinking. Its a similar issue with the trucks, what do these ivory tower dwellers think happens to the trucks that are no longer compliant? If they are sold to countries and places that have lower requirements its still the same planet they 're polluting.

 

[SpeedyDux]

It's a sneaky way of banning private diesel leisure vehicles by stealth.

If this goes ahead it may be worth a Judicial Review application to get it quashed on the basis that it is irrational to apply this charge to some categories of ICE vehicles (including those that are Euro 6 compliant already) and not apply it to other categories that emit more or as much emissions. That's one possible ground that springs to mind but there could be others. It's discriminatory.

If this was France the Camping-Car associations would be willing to take it to Court. We need the 3 main Clubs to take up this fight on behalf of their members. Otherwise, it would need crowd funding from motorhomers. I would chip in. This is the thin end of a big wedge and we could see more and more of the UK (not just urban agglomerations, countryside as well) become closed off by Clean Air Zones that make it too expensive for many of us to visit them or travel through them.

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[Simon Meadwell]

So far as I can see you will be classed (Motorhome> 3.5t) as a Private HGV, and will pay £10 a day, not £60….

Billm mine is plated at 3650 so the additional 150kg makes me an hgv so £60 a day by my understanding. Thats the problem no thought put into it im not the same as a hgv. I can accept £10 but think £60 is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[jongood]

It's a sneaky way of banning private diesel leisure vehicles by stealth.

If this goes ahead it may be worth a Judicial Review application to get it quashed on the basis that it is irrational to apply this charge to some categories of ICE vehicles (including those that are Euro 6 compliant already) and not apply it to other categories that emit more or as much emissions. That's one possible ground that springs to mind but there could be others. It's discriminatory.

If this was France the Camping-Car associations would be willing to take it to Court. We need the 3 main Clubs to take up this fight on behalf of their members. Otherwise, it would need crowd funding from motorhomers. I would chip in. This is the thin end of a big wedge and we could see more and more of the UK (not just urban agglomerations, countryside as well) become closed off by Clean Air Zones that make it too expensive for many of us to visit them or travel through them.

I'm in.

The spread of these zones is going to hit all of us if unchecked. Ok, some of you have got E6, but what happens when they ratchet up to the next step?

 

[BillM]

Billm mine is plated at 3650 so the additional 150kg makes me an hgv so £60 a day by my understanding. Thats the problem no thought put into it im not the same as a hgv. I can accept £10 but think £60 is absolutely ridiculous.

I know yours is over 3500, so an HGV, nevertheless there is an exception if your HGV is for private, not commercial use, which means you pay £10 a day. You may have to apply for the discount to apply… but it is clear if you read the section “Discounts to appply to HGV” …. a Private HGV will pay a discounted rate of £10 daily.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

IMHO it makes perfect sense to challenge this wooly headed thinking. Its a similar issue with the trucks, what do these ivory tower dwellers think happens to the trucks that are no longer compliant? If they are sold to countries and places that have lower requirements its still the same planet they 're polluting.

Not criticising your right to challenge to the powers that be , my point was that Simon is looking for a solution to his issue……that was the direction i was taking in an effort to help him

 

[Guigsy]

I'm in.

The spread of these zones is going to hit all of us if unchecked. Ok, some of you have got E6, but what happens when they ratchet up to the next step?

Do we have to consider that maybe we've created a lifestyle that's unsustainable? Maybe we've reached peak consumption? Maybe humans need to cut back? It's going to suck.

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[Landy Andy]

For 150kg I’d down plate to 3500 and occasionally run overweight.

 

[tonyidle]

The spread of these zones is going to hit all of us if unchecked. Ok, some of you have got E6, but what happens when they ratchet up to the next step?

I doubt there'll be another step - straight to EV .

 

[tonyidle]

Find a friend with a modern Range Rover to tow you out?

 

[SpeedyDux]

Do we have to consider that maybe we've created a lifestyle that's unsustainable? Maybe we've reached peak consumption? Maybe humans need to cut back? It's going to suck.

I've seen comparisons between CO2 emissions from holidays abroad with flights and hotels, and holidays abroad in a motorhome. The motorhome always wins. Maybe the travel industry is unsustainable.

How many humans would we need to cut back ...

 

[Guigsy]

I've seen comparisons between CO2 emissions from holidays abroad with flights and hotels, and holidays abroad in a motorhome. The motorhome always wins. Maybe the travel industry is unsustainable.

How many humans would we need to cut back ...

Clean Air Zones are about reducing NOx and particulates. There's no restrictions on the amount of CO2 your vehicle produces. Hence you can drive a 2005 petrol V8 in pretty much all the CAZs.

But yes, the travel industry will have severe difficulties in making itself sustainable.

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[Simon Meadwell]

Landy Andy i have thought about that but not sure whether to do it.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Clean Air Zones are about reducing NOx and particulates. There's no restrictions on the amount of CO2 your vehicle produces. Hence you can drive a 2005 petrol V8 in pretty much all the CAZs.

But yes, the travel industry will have severe difficulties in making itself sustainable.

I don't disagree about NOx reduction. Particulates are not going to be eliminated, they are also a by-product of tyres and brakes. I am sceptical about the claims that tens of thousands die prematurely. I don't understand how they could possibly isolate one or two causal factors due to the many other environmental and lifestyle factors that cause respiratory issues. One coroner's finding has been blown out of all proportion.

 

[jongood]

Do we have to consider that maybe we've created a lifestyle that's unsustainable? Maybe we've reached peak consumption? Maybe humans need to cut back? It's going to suck.

Posh motorhome you have there comrade.

 

[Guigsy]

Posh motorhome you have there comrade.

Using it while I can.