Getting ready to change to Lithium and need some advice

peterc10

peterc10

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Well I can't change my mind now and the money has been spent :oops: .

My 2 x 120Ah low profile LiFePo4 batteries from KS Energy have arrived (y) . Both were at about 80% charged so I am charging them to full now as per the instructions. Downloading the app and connecting via BT was easy. The Votronic BTB should be arriving this afternoon from RoadPro and all the other bits to do the job should be here by the end of the week at the latest, I hope. The only one I am keeping my fingers crossed for is the Votronic 350W MPPT solar charger which is coming from Germany (couldn't find any in the UK). It has been purchased through the UK Amazon site so if they don't deliver I can easily get my money back. In that case I will wire up my existing controller until I can find the one I want.

I have spent some time thinking about how to install it all but I need some advice. I am going through the EBL to connect both to make it easier. I do not want to disconnect the cab battery unless I have to. So first question is can I just remove the 50A fuse on the cab battery or are there more connections? I will also remove the 50A fuse at the habitation battery as well as the fuses for charging by mains and solar on the EBL. So the second question is does that mean I can keep the EHU plugged in while I am doing the job?

At the moment I am hoping to do it in the following order.
  1. Remove existing batteries I need them out of the way to make it easier to fit and wire up the BSB and solar controller.
  2. Fit the B2B and wire it up to the EBL and shunt terminal.
  3. Fit the solar controller and connect it to EBL but I will not wire in the panels at this stage.
  4. Fit the new batteries and change the settings on my Victron BMV 700.
  5. Wire the panels into the solar controller
  6. Replace all the fuses I removed and check everything is working.
So the third question is is that OK or should I do it in a different order?

Just to explain that I am OK with the basic principles of electrickery but I cannot understand those spider's webs that electricians call wiring diagrams.

I am sure that I will come across some more questions as I get on with it, so I will add them to this thread. Many thanks in advance to anybody is willing to offer me any advice.
 
What size is the B2B (Amperage)? Can the EBL take that level of current? I suspect you do need to have dedicated, suitably sized cables from the cab to the B2B and to the Hab batteries (via any shunt, but not EBL). The charging route from the existing cab to EBL would then be disabled, possibly as simple as pulling a fuse.
 
16mmm cables from the batteries to the b2b>
wire the battery to the mppt before wiring the solar.

Good luck, I have 2 KS energy compact, they work well, the bluetooth can be a bit quick to shut off but Im V happy with them
 
Kannon Fodda said:
What size is the B2B (Amperage)? Can the EBL take that level of current? I suspect you do need to have dedicated, suitably sized cables from the cab to the B2B and to the Hab batteries (via any shunt, but not EBL). The charging route from the existing cab to EBL would then be disabled, possibly as simple as pulling a fuse.
Click to expand...
The B2B is 30A. The size of the cables in my Hymer will easily take that. After all the fuse on them is 50A.

Tombola said:
16mmm cables from the batteries to the b2b>
wire the battery to the mppt before wiring the solar.

Good luck, I have 2 KS energy compact, they work well, the bluetooth can be a bit quick to shut off but Im V happy with them
Click to expand...
AFAIK 16mm can take 100A which is nowhere near I will get from anything I am fitting. I only need those size cables from the batteries to my inverter, which I already have.
 
As your van is a few years old I would bypass the EBL with the B2B if you run through the EBL the chances are the split charge relay contacts are a bit carboned up and it will drop the charge rate.

With 350 Watts of solar defiantly bypass the EBL, if you do go through it you need to make shure you get the pins a that can handle the current there are two or three versions of the pins.

I had my 300 Watts of solar running through the EBL I bypassed it last year and got another 5% output.

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What EBL have you got? I have a EBL119 in my Globecar and I bypassed the EBL and wired my 50A votronic the directly to the 200Ah KS Energy lithium battery.
 
Lenny HB said:
As your van is a few years old I would bypass the EBL with the B2B if you run through the EBL the chances are the split charge relay contacts are a bit carboned up and it will drop the charge rate.

With 350 Watts of solar defiantly bypass the EBL, if you do go through it you need to make shure you get the pins a that can handle the current there are two or three versions of the pins.

I had my 300 Watts of solar running through the EBL I bypassed it last year and got another 5% output.
Click to expand...
I am not sure that it will using the split charger relay in the EBL given that the B2B has a D+ going into it and has a split relay in there. Or am I wrong on that? Here is a photo of the wiring diagram for use with the EBL,

20220510_153126.jpg


So how do I disable the existing split charge relay in the EBL if I by pass it? Will it really be a problem with only 30A?

I only have 250A of solar. I got the 350 for two reasons. Firstly I could not find a 250A anywhere and secondly because I may want to fit another panel at some time in the future. I have the EBL 29. What are the pins like on that?
 
You will need to confirm with someone who knows about the EBL 29, with the EBL119, I disconnected the EBL in from the starter battery and removed the charger fuse. That disabled the Inbuilt split charge in the EBL.
As I said, I direct wired the starter battery to the B2B, and the B2B to the Liesure battery +ive and ground side of the victron BMS shunt

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Lenny HB said:
Peter if you need a hand with anything you are always welcome to pop down
We are back on the 18th.
Click to expand...
That is very kind of you Lenny, Many thanks.

If I were to by pass the EBL what size cables would I need for the 30A B2B? There is about 1.5m from the cab battery to where the B2B is going. And the B2B and solar would only be about 500mm from the batteries. But, unlike your Hymer it is very difficult to find a cable route from the hab area to the starter battery as I found out when I put a USB port in the cab area. That was one of the reasons why I was using the EBL's

Again what size of cables would I need to the solar?.

I would probably need a different connector for the positive battery pole as I already have a few cables going to it.
 
peterc10 said:
I am not sure that it will using the split charger relay in the EBL given that the B2B has a D+ going into it and has a split relay in there. Or am I wrong on that? Here is a photo of the wiring diagram for use with the EBL,

View attachment 616435

So how do I disable the existing split charge relay in the EBL if I by pass it? Will it really be a problem with only 30A?

I only have 250A of solar. I got the 350 for two reasons. Firstly I could not find a 250A anywhere and secondly because I may want to fit another panel at some time in the future. I have the EBL 29. What are the pins like on that?
Click to expand...
That diagram shows it going via the EBL split charge relay.
What you need to is remove the starter battdrconnection to the EBL and connect the cable to the input of the B2B and connect the output to the leisure battery.
 
gerry mcg said:
You will need to confirm with someone who knows about the EBL 29, with the EBL119, I disconnected the EBL in from the starter battery and removed the charger fuse. That disabled the Inbuilt split charge in the EBL.
As I said, I direct wired the starter battery to the B2B, and the B2B to the Liesure battery +ive and ground side of the victron BMS shunt
Click to expand...
The fuse in the EBL disconnects the mains charger not the slit charge.
 
peterc10 said:
That is very kind of you Lenny, Many thanks.

If I were to by pass the EBL what size cables would I need for the 30A B2B? There is about 1.5m from the cab battery to where the B2B is going. And the B2B and solar would only be about 500mm from the batteries. But, unlike your Hymer it is very difficult to find a cable route from the hab area to the starter battery as I found out when I put a USB port in the cab area. That was one of the reasons why I was using the EBL's

Again what size of cables would I need to the solar?.

I would probably need a different connector for the positive battery pole as I already have a few cables going to it.
Click to expand...
16mm sq for the B2B & 6mm for the solar.
Easiest way to connect to the battery would be with a buss bar.
 
gerry mcg said:
You will need to confirm with someone who knows about the EBL 29, with the EBL119, I disconnected the EBL in from the starter battery and removed the charger fuse. That disabled the Inbuilt split charge in the EBL.
As I said, I direct wired the starter battery to the B2B, and the B2B to the Liesure battery +ive and ground side of the victron BMS shunt
Click to expand...
My brain hurts ....................... :doh: :doh: :doh:

What charger fuse?

I still want my EBL to charge the batteries when on EHU, so would removing the link between Starter Battery and Leisure Battery or removing the charger fuse change that? Did you use the existing cable from the Starter Battery to the EBL and just divert it to the B2B instead. I certainly have enough spare on that cable to do that.

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peterc10 said:
The B2B is 30A. The size of the cables in my Hymer will easily take that. After all the fuse on them is 50A.


AFAIK 16mm can take 100A which is nowhere near I will get from anything I am fitting. I only need those size cables from the batteries to my inverter, which I already have.
Click to expand...
I had 50A fuses in my dealer fit B2B - the wiring around them simply melted and lucky not to cause a fire. Vanbitz did my lithium install and presented me with two melted fuses plus put 100A wiring in.
 
Lenny HB said:
16mm sq for the B2B & 6mm for the solar.
Easiest way to connect to the battery would be with a buss bar.
Click to expand...
Did you mean 16mm not 26mm? I am not sure that the cable between the starter battery and the EBL is that large.

Do you mean a separate remote insulated buss bar and then just one cable to the battery? That could make things easier

Lenny HB said:
What you need to is remove the starter battdrconnection to the EBL and connect the cable to the input of the B2B and connect the output to the leisure battery.
Click to expand...
That would solve the problem but I am not sure that the cable to the EBL is 16mm. I think it measured up at about 7mm or 8mm external diameter. What size would that be I wonder? Would removing that cable from the EBL disable the inbuilt split charge relay anyway?

Another question. The Votronic diagram shows it getting its D+ signal all the way from the Alternator. I have already identified a D+ input signal at pin 3 of block 5F the EBL which I could piggy back onto. Can I use that instead of running a wire all the way to the Alternator?
 
peterc10 said:
Did you mean 16mm not 26mm? I am not sure that the cable between the starter battery and the EBL is that large.

Do you mean a separate remote insulated buss bar and then just one cable to the battery? That could make things easier


That would solve the problem but I am not sure that the cable to the EBL is 16mm. I think it measured up at about 7mm or 8mm external diameter. What size would that be I wonder? Would removing that cable from the EBL disable the inbuilt split charge relay anyway?

Another question. The Votronic diagram shows it getting its D+ signal all the way from the Alternator. I have already identified a D+ input signal at pin 3 of block 5F the EBL which I could piggy back onto. Can I use that instead of running a wire all the way to the Alternator?
Click to expand...
You are too quick Peter I edited it straight away to 16.
Fairly Certain the cable to the EBL is 16mm it is on mine.

Yes the D+ on the EBL will be fine.

This buss bar does both neg & positive. Then just single cables to the battery.

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Lenny HB said:
You are too quick Peter I edited it straight away to 16.
Fairly Certain the cable to the EBL is 16mm it is on mine.

Yes the D+ on the EBL will be fine.

This buss bar does both neg & positive. Then just single cables to the battery.

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Click to expand...
Your link does not go to a Buss bar. I have found a 4 pole Buss bar for the positive. I am not sure I will need it for the shunt because there seems to be plenty of height on the bolt.

The problem I have is that I do not have a crimp tool for larger diameters so have to order my leads ready crimped.
 
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peterc10 said:
Your link does not go to a Buss bar. I have found a 4 pole Buss bar for the positive. I am not sure I will need it for the shunt because there seems to be plenty of height on the bolt.
Click to expand...
Does on my phone although it came up as a sign in link. Here is a screen shot.

Screenshot_2022-05-10-17-58-50-82_3aea4af51f236e4932235fdada7d1643.jpg

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peterc10 said:
I only have 250A of solar. I got the 350 for two reasons. Firstly I could not find a 250A anywhere and secondly because I may want to fit another panel at some time in the future. I have the EBL 29. What are the pins like on that?
Click to expand...
I have a 250, then found out I’ve got 300w of solar🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️😤😤😤😤
 
Do you think that your 30A B2B is undersized for 2x 120A?

I recently fitted a 110Ah ecotree battery from the half price raffle here on MHF and went with the 45A B2B which is more than adequate for the single battery
 
peterc10 said:
So that acts as both a buss bar for both positive and negative and also a fuse holder to protect the positive cable? Are the fuses they use standard?
Click to expand...
Yep, standard midi fuse.

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Bobby-gg said:
Do you think that your 30A B2B is undersized for 2x 120A?

I recently fitted a 110Ah ecotree battery from the half price raffle here on MHF and went with the 45A B2B which is more than adequate for the single battery
Click to expand...
You may be correct, but I bought it now so we will see how we will go.
 

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