Getting ready to change to Lithium and need some advice (1 Viewer)

OP
OP
peterc10
Jul 5, 2013
11,713
13,681
Tunbridge Wells, Tunbridge Wells, UK
Funster No
26,797
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2013
If you use the right size.
Lenny HB Lenny

Received that today and it looks reasonably well built. They can take up to at least 25smm and probably more at a push. But there is no way that you can use lugs on them with the cover on and even then the hole and lug would have to be small (4mm hole). They are designed to hold the cable by pushing the cable into the tube and screwing the grub screw down onto the cable. Would that work? It seems to be the way that the 16smm cables are fixed to the back of the EBL. Or could I get a solid cable end lug to fit to the end of the cable and clamp the grub screw down on that?

I also have several other cables of smaller diameter attached to the positive node of my present set up. Don't know what they are for because they were there when I bought it new. I also have a cable to my inverter as well as the cable to the positive node of the other battery. So to make this work I think I may need some more fused attachment points. Not sure how many there are and it is raining so I will leave it to the morning to check. So I am not sure whether this goes back to Amazon or not.

Peter when I fitted my setup I already had a schaudt 25amp B2B fitted, I left all the wiring the same from the ebl although mine is a ebl 242-1.I found when I changed it the fridge relay never worked when engine running.

Attached is a fag packet sketch of how mine is wired and is working fine although I have disabled the ebl charger and now use the charger on my multiplus. If your KS lithiums are okay with a charge on a gel setting then there is no need for you to do this but you will only have 18amp but to be fair I have never used the mains charger yet as the solar seems to up to the job but will see in the winter.
I would wire your solar straight to the batteries, and if you have a bluetooth mppt you can monitor everything there and on your shunt instead of your control panel but either way should be fine.

View attachment 616847

Zoom in and you can see the wires at the back of the ebl and my b2b(blue) attached to the back of the seat.

View attachment 616846
Ditcha Dave

I don't think the terminals at the back of my EBL are big enough to accommodate 2 x 16sm cables And I have more existing wires to accommodate that I am not sure where they go. But I don't want to risk stop anything working by leaving them out. And they may not reach to the only place I think I want to put the buss bar.
 

Lenny HB

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 18, 2007
52,684
147,587
On the coast in West Sussex
Funster No
658
MH
Hymer B678 DL
Exp
Since 2008 & many years tugging
Would that work? It seems to be the way that the 16smm cables are fixed to the back of the EBL. Or could I get a solid cable end lug to fit to the end of the cable and clamp the grub screw down on that?
The cables going into the EBL have ferrals on them you could fit them or the bootlace ferrals.
Another option is to modify the cover.
I don't think the terminals at the back of my EBL are big enough to accommodate 2 x 16sm cables
If you bypass the EBL which I highly recommend there won't be any conntion to starter battery input on the EBL.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
peterc10
Jul 5, 2013
11,713
13,681
Tunbridge Wells, Tunbridge Wells, UK
Funster No
26,797
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2013
Hi Peter, I you fit all this and it works I will buy you a beer when I see you you will have earned one I've got brain ache reading it all Bill
I am up for that Bill. Hope you and Lynn and family are OK.

I think we will be meeting up in a field somewhere this summer. Whether or not we will have any new batteries to show you by then is a moot point. :ROFLMAO: .
 
Jan 3, 2013
124
172
St.Neots Cambs
Funster No
24,137
MH
Hymer Exsis I-414
Exp
2002-2006, 2013-current
You are too quick Peter I edited it straight away to 16.
Fairly Certain the cable to the EBL is 16mm it is on mine.

Yes the D+ on the EBL will be fine.

This buss bar does both neg & positive. Then just single cables to the battery.
I am probably being thick here but 16mm is a hell of a thick cable to my mechanical engineering brain 16mm is 0.63 inches?

john
 
Dec 31, 2010
2,586
5,710
Sunny South Shields
Funster No
14,797
MH
Frankia Platin i7900
Exp
Since 2010
Lenny HB Lenny

Received that today and it looks reasonably well built. They can take up to at least 25smm and probably more at a push. But there is no way that you can use lugs on them with the cover on and even then the hole and lug would have to be small (4mm hole). They are designed to hold the cable by pushing the cable into the tube and screwing the grub screw down onto the cable. Would that work? It seems to be the way that the 16smm cables are fixed to the back of the EBL. Or could I get a solid cable end lug to fit to the end of the cable and clamp the grub screw down on that?

I also have several other cables of smaller diameter attached to the positive node of my present set up. Don't know what they are for because they were there when I bought it new. I also have a cable to my inverter as well as the cable to the positive node of the other battery. So to make this work I think I may need some more fused attachment points. Not sure how many there are and it is raining so I will leave it to the morning to check. So I am not sure whether this goes back to Amazon or not.


Ditcha Dave

I don't think the terminals at the back of my EBL are big enough to accommodate 2 x 16sm cables And I have more existing wires to accommodate that I am not sure where they go. But I don't want to risk stop anything working by leaving them out. And they may not reach to the only place I think I want to put the buss bar.
These are the type of crimps used Peter

 
OP
OP
peterc10
Jul 5, 2013
11,713
13,681
Tunbridge Wells, Tunbridge Wells, UK
Funster No
26,797
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2013
The cables going into the EBL have ferrals on them you could fit them or the bootlace ferrals.
Another option is to modify the cover.

If you bypass the EBL which I highly recommend there won't be any conntion to starter battery input on the EBL.
We used to have a pack of ferrals near where we lived. Somebody kept feeding them whiskas. :ROFLMAO:

Dave's wiring diagram showed the EBL was bypassed but still had additional cables on the connectors at the rear f the EBL.

On another matter, given that the Solar controller only trickle charges the cab battery could I use the connector for cab battery charging on the EBL rather than running a wire all the way to the starter battery?

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
Oct 22, 2019
1,556
4,281
Hampshire
Funster No
65,995
MH
Chausson 640 welcome
Exp
Since October 2019
Absolute rocket science to me . You might as well be speaking Klingon. Clever people
 
OP
OP
peterc10
Jul 5, 2013
11,713
13,681
Tunbridge Wells, Tunbridge Wells, UK
Funster No
26,797
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2013
These are the type of crimps used Peter

Thanks again Dave. That solves the connectors if I decide to use the buss bar I have.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
peterc10
Jul 5, 2013
11,713
13,681
Tunbridge Wells, Tunbridge Wells, UK
Funster No
26,797
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2013
The way that is wired thB2B and split charge relay are in parallel that is a complete NO, NO.

Dave Ditcha you need to rewire that, really bad practice.
Ditcha
Sorry Dave I didn't mean to snitch on you.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Garry - June

Free Member
Jun 24, 2019
411
811
Pershore, Worcestershire, UK
Funster No
61,889
MH
A Class Frankia
Exp
2019
I have the Votronic mppt which does not go through my EBL other than for monitoring charging my 300ah LA leisure batteries... i too am about to switch to 300ah KS Lithium's.... and I'm personally not planning to change anything else at all for the moment.. other than the charging parameters on the Votronic of course..
 
Dec 31, 2010
2,586
5,710
Sunny South Shields
Funster No
14,797
MH
Frankia Platin i7900
Exp
Since 2010
Converters don't get everything right, I can assure you it is not the best way to wire it.
It might be that way with my EBL241-2 Lenny it's a pretty new addition to the line up doesn't have solar input etc quite basic.

Anyway covered 600 miles and can't smell any burning yet 😁
 

Attachments

  • EBL_241-2_BA_EN.pdf
    293 KB · Views: 24

Lenny HB

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 18, 2007
52,684
147,587
On the coast in West Sussex
Funster No
658
MH
Hymer B678 DL
Exp
Since 2008 & many years tugging
It might be that way with my EBL241-2 Lenny it's a pretty new addition to the line up doesn't have solar input etc quite basic.

Anyway covered 600 miles and can't smell any burning yet 😁
Works the same as most other EBL, the way yours is wired the split charge relay is in parallel with the B2B effectively shorting out the B2B making the B2B pointless.

I suspect that it was an easy way of fitting the B2B which is needed for the smart alternator.

I'm fairly sure you will get a better charge rate if you wire it correctly. All you need to do is disconnect the two wires from the starter battery input and connect them together.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 
OP
OP
peterc10
Jul 5, 2013
11,713
13,681
Tunbridge Wells, Tunbridge Wells, UK
Funster No
26,797
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2013
Yes that's what I have done on my van.
But if I disconnect the cable to the starter battery from the EBL and attach it to the B2B how can the EBL get the solar charge to the cab battery? Could I take the the cable from the regulator and attach it to starter battery positive on the B2B? Only a small cable and I thing it could share the connection.

But, thinking about it again (always dangerous), how can the EBL charge the starter battery when on EHU if there is no connection between them?
 
Last edited:
Apr 27, 2016
6,798
7,837
Manchester
Funster No
42,762
MH
A class Hymer
Exp
Since the 80s
I will leave it on hook up but take the charging fuse on the EBL out and also the solar fuse on the solar controller. I understand that that will disable the charging of the leisure batteries but still let the cab battery charge.
You have to be a bit careful and look at the details of the EBL internal wiring. Removing the 20a fuse will certainly disable the output of the inbuilt mains charger of the EBL. However it will only allow trickle-charging of the starter battery if some other device is charging the leisure battery. A solar controller or an external mains charger for example. The reason for removing the fuse is to avoid charging the lithium leisure battery, so in that case the starter battery would not be trickle-charged.

Subscribers  do not see these advertisements

 

Lenny HB

LIFE MEMBER
Oct 18, 2007
52,684
147,587
On the coast in West Sussex
Funster No
658
MH
Hymer B678 DL
Exp
Since 2008 & many years tugging
But if I disconnect the cable to the starter battery from the EBL and attach it to the B2B how can the EBL get the solar charge to the cab battery? Could I take the the cable from the regulator and attach it to starter battery positive on the B2B? Only a small cable and I thing it could share the connection.

But, thinking about it again (always dangerous), how can the EBL charge the starter battery when on EHU if there is no connection between them?
The trickle charge to the starter battery done via the fridge cable from the starter battery.
 

Hoovie

Free Member
May 16, 2021
1,249
1,689
Funster No
81,251
MH
Autotrail
Just a few comments as I am pretty familar with these products mentioned ....
That is strange because AFAIK the Votronic B2B, like all B2Bs, only comes on when it gets a D+ signal from the alternator that the engine is running. It does not depend on whether or not the cab battery is being charged otherwise it would come on when we are on EHU.

The solar controller does trickle charge the cab battery as well, just like the EBL does when on EHU. .
Most B2Bs around nowadays can be configured to to voltage sensing in fact. Some have an additional sense input line to add D+, ignition or switch control

Hi we fitted a voltronic duo solar controller and found the b2b drained the starter battery because it sensed power going to it, had to reconfigure b2b to only be operational with ignition on.
May not apply to you if you don't have duo.
It is an ablemade b2b, but it was an easy change.
The Ablemail is a B2B that can be configured to be either controlled via Starter Battery voltage (e.g. Voltage Sensing), OR via sense control. Unusually, unlike most devices that are sense-controlled, the Ablemail sense control is also a Voltage Sensing input, which adds a great extra control level as it is not a matter of just switching on when the engine starts or ignition is on, you can set it so to only work when Sense is on AND at a sufficient level. I have my own Ablemail 60A B2B configured this way.
You cannot easy reconfigure the Ablemail AMC B2Bs yourself unless you have the Bluetooth option or send back to Merlyn Electronics or a friendly supplier.


Lenny HB Lenny

Received that today and it looks reasonably well built. They can take up to at least 25smm and probably more at a push. But there is no way that you can use lugs on them with the cover on and even then the hole and lug would have to be small (4mm hole). They are designed to hold the cable by pushing the cable into the tube and screwing the grub screw down onto the cable. Would that work? It seems to be the way that the 16smm cables are fixed to the back of the EBL. Or could I get a solid cable end lug to fit to the end of the cable and clamp the grub screw down on that?

I also have several other cables of smaller diameter attached to the positive node of my present set up. Don't know what they are for because they were there when I bought it new. I also have a cable to my inverter as well as the cable to the positive node of the other battery. So to make this work I think I may need some more fused attachment points. Not sure how many there are and it is raining so I will leave it to the morning to check. So I am not sure whether this goes back to Amazon or not.
Ditcha Dave

I don't think the terminals at the back of my EBL are big enough to accommodate 2 x 16sm cables And I have more existing wires to accommodate that I am not sure where they go. But I don't want to risk stop anything working by leaving them out. And they may not reach to the only place I think I want to put the buss bar.
Those 4-way Midi Fuse Boxes are excellent. I would not suggest using the provided ring ferrules however. Bootlace ferrules work well, or you can use pin crimps like the ones Ditcha (Dave) linked to (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DBG-551-...d=link&campid=5338547443&toolid=20001&mkevt=1). I would (and always do) use Ferrules rather than bare cable as you will get a much better connection.
You said the EBL terminals may not be big enough for 16mm2 cable? Quite possible and again, the pin crimps above will get round that. (I use these with the Victron Smart-Orion B2Bs with 16mm2 cable where the bare cable is extremely tight to fit, and a Bootlace ferrule actually makes it too large to fit). The Pin Crimp is by far the best and most professional option in that situation.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
peterc10
Jul 5, 2013
11,713
13,681
Tunbridge Wells, Tunbridge Wells, UK
Funster No
26,797
MH
A class
Exp
Since 2013
You have to be a bit careful and look at the details of the EBL internal wiring. Removing the 20a fuse will certainly disable the output of the inbuilt mains charger of the EBL. However it will only allow trickle-charging of the starter battery if some other device is charging the leisure battery. A solar controller or an external mains charger for example. The reason for removing the fuse is to avoid charging the lithium leisure battery, so in that case the starter battery would not be trickle-charged.
I have come to the conclusion that I will have a kill switch to disconnect the leisure batteries from all charging.
 
Apr 27, 2016
6,798
7,837
Manchester
Funster No
42,762
MH
A class Hymer
Exp
Since the 80s
Peter when I fitted my setup I already had a schaudt 25amp B2B fitted, I left all the wiring the same from the ebl although mine is a ebl 242-1.I found when I changed it the fridge relay never worked when engine running.

Attached is a fag packet sketch of how mine is wired and is working fine
You should be careful about copying this. Wiring as in that diagram will only work if the split charge relay inside the EBL has been disabled. Since there was already a B2B in place, it looks like the split charge relay was disabled in the EBL242-1. However in the EBL29 the split charge relay will be working, and you need to do something about that.

There are various options. The simplest is to remove the large (50A?) fuse in the wire from the starter battery to the EBL SB input. Then wire the B2B between the Starter battery and Leisure battery with new wiring. That's how you would have to wire a high power (60A) B2B.

Since the B2B is only 30A, the existing wiring is adequate. As Lenny HB said in post #12, disconnect the wire from the EBL SB input, and connect it to the B2B SB input. Run a new wire from the B2B Leisure Battery output to the EBL Starter Battery (SB) input. The split charge relay will still operate as before, but it will be connecting the B2B output to the Leisure Battery (not the alternator output as before).
 

Join us or log in to post a reply.

To join in you must be a member of MotorhomeFun

Join MotorhomeFun

Join us, it quick and easy!

Log in

Already a member? Log in here.

Latest journal entries

Funsters who are viewing this thread

Back
Top