Frozen pipes

[Otter Spotter]

Freshwater pipes under van are frozen and I cannot see a frost dump switch ( not sure one was ever fitted). To protect my Electric water heater a 9 ltr. 240volt only, how should I attempt to defrost the pipes Or should I leave alone and let them unfreeze themselves over the weekend when weather is expected to warm up?
I am concerned as I may need to drive tomorrow.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Personally I would leave them now till the weather warms up.Driving in this cold weather will only freeze them up again

 

[Googlebot]

Can’t you switch the water heater on?

 

[Figaro]

Agree, it`s probably best to let them thaw naturally and pray your boiler is not burst

I did a complete drain down before Christmas but realised yesterday I`d run some water down the sink afterwards and not emptied the waste trap - frozed solid this morning. 20 minutes with a fan heater and all was well, no blown joints thankfully.
I`ve filled the traps with screen wash now.

 

[Figaro]

Can’t you switch the water heater on?

I don`t think thats a good idea if it`s frozed solid

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[The Wino]

Can’t you switch the water heater on?

Just what I was going to suggest if you have a ehu available. Strange having 240v only presumably you can't stay off sites at all.

 

[Googlebot]

I don`t think thats a good idea if it`s frozed solid

Why not?

As long as the hot taps are open, all it will do is melt. Or have I missed something?

 

[The Wino]

Why not?

As long as the hot taps are open, all it will do is melt. Or have I missed something?

If the boilers already bu***** it'll leak but it will later anyway!. I suppose there could be a problem with expansion if the pipes are frozen but I'd go for it.

 

[Figaro]

It will heat up un-evenly, boiling in parts whilst still frozen in other parts.
A recipie for an explosion I think, or maybe just an un-necessary risk of one anyway
Just my take on it, I`d let it thaw by itself

 

[tonka]

Frost dump is not always fitted, depends on heating system and convertor.
My Autotrails never had one so it was policy to always drain down as soon first signs of freezing weather.
Often it not just the low temperature, wind chill going under the van making it even colder can cause the problems.

Fingers crossed it thaws ok for you.

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[Googlebot]

It will heat up un-evenly, boiling in parts whilst still frozen in other parts.
A recipie for an explosion I think, or maybe just an un-necessary risk of one anyway
Just my take on it, I`d let it thaw by itself

You might be right depending on the design of the boiler.

My worry would be if it isn’t damaged yet, leaving it may mean it will be damaged soon.

An external fan heater in the motorhome might be a better option to protect the boiler tonight.

 

[Otter Spotter]

No EHU close enough to put fan heater on I have tank heater pads fitted but they drain the battery very quickly, it’s a bit of a ‘catch 22’ dare not move the fan to charge batteries in case movement causes pipe damage. Would poring hot ( not boiling) water) into fresh water tank help ?

the boiler is a http://www.caktanks.co.uk/CAK_Heating_Water_&_Air.htm the mains water 9ltr mini
I will speak to supplier to find out safe options this morning.
thanks

 

[The Wino]

No EHU close enough to put fan heater on I have tank heater pads fitted but they drain the battery very quickly, it’s a bit of a ‘catch 22’ dare not move the fan to charge batteries in case movement causes pipe damage. Would poring hot ( not boiling) water) into fresh water tank help ?

the boiler is a http://www.caktanks.co.uk/CAK_Heating_Water_&_Air.htm the mains water 9ltr mini
I will speak to supplier to find out safe options this morning.
thanks

I'm not an expert so maybe don't listen to me! But from your picture li looks like you have a pvc I don't think that the body would flex enough to damage a frozen pipe when being driven. I would want to get it defrosted and drained while I was able to watch what happened/clear up any leaks rather than as the weather warms.
Of course another problem at the moment is the travel stuff is it essential. Sorry youre in a fix I think if you're lucky it might be theres little dammage anyway.

 

[glenn2926]

No EHU close enough to put fan heater on I have tank heater pads fitted but they drain the battery very quickly, it’s a bit of a ‘catch 22’ dare not move the fan to charge batteries in case movement causes pipe damage. Would poring hot ( not boiling) water) into fresh water tank help ?

the boiler is a http://www.caktanks.co.uk/CAK_Heating_Water_&_Air.htm the mains water 9ltr mini
I will speak to supplier to find out safe options this morning.
thanks

Can you not run an extension in through a window and plug a small fan heater into that?

 

[Otter Spotter]

Can you not run an extension in through a window and plug a small fan heater into that?

Van is parked 20 yards from house on opposite side of road, EHU not practical.

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[Ian Bosman]

Freshwater pipes under van are frozen and I cannot see a frost dump switch ( not sure one was ever fitted). To protect my Electric water heater a 9 ltr. 240volt only, how should I attempt to defrost the pipes Or should I leave alone and let them unfreeze themselves over the weekend when weather is expected to warm up?
I am concerned as I may need to drive tomorrow.

I would suggest if you cannot dump the water out of the heater (it might be a manual job) then do not attempt to use the heater. Assuming you have exposed piping under the van I would then suggest looking at the possibility of re-routing inside the van and/or lagging them.

 

[peterc10]

It seems to me that your motorhome has not been designed for winter use. Externally exposed water pipes are always a no-no as you have no way of stopping them freezing, with or without EHU. Lagging will only help a bit, but it cannot work miracles in the weather we have had recently. And no dump point means that your boiler will always be susceptible to frost damage unless you keep the (presumably gas) heating on all the time

 

[Otter Spotter]

It seems to me that your motorhome has not been designed for winter use. Externally exposed water pipes are always a no-no as you have no way of stopping them freezing, with or without EHU. Lagging will only help a bit, but it cannot work miracles in the weather we have had recently. And no dump point means that your boiler will always be susceptible to frost damage unless you keep the (presumably gas) heating on all the time

The van was supposed to be 4 seasons, the main insulation is great and I supplied pipe insulation to be fitted, but the convertor didn’t use it he has sold his business and the new guy is ready and willing to sort it but because of Covid I cannot get the van to him.
I posted on here to get practical tips for thawing the pipes, I know the problem but don’t want to anything that could make things worse, so is poring warm water into fresh water tank a daft idea? throwing warm or hot water on the pipes where I can ? Or should I just leave alone until the warmer weather and hope if I have to travel in van ( it’s my only vehicle) movement doesn’t fracture the pipes etc.

 

[peterc10]

The van was supposed to be 4 seasons, the main insulation is great and I supplied pipe insulation to be fitted, but the convertor didn’t use it he has sold his business and the new guy is ready and willing to sort it but because of Covid I cannot get the van to him.
I posted on here to get practical tips for thawing the pipes, I know the problem but don’t want to anything that could make things worse, so is poring warm water into fresh water tank a daft idea? throwing warm or hot water on the pipes where I can ? Or should I just leave alone until the warmer weather and hope if I have to travel in van ( it’s my only vehicle) movement doesn’t fracture the pipes etc.

I am not sure that insulation will ever work on external pipes when it gets really cold, especially if you are not on EHU and so cannot keep the water in the tank warm. It will eventually just freeze. I am surprised that it was designed without the ability of using gas (or diesel) to heat water, I have never seen that in a motorhome. And if you have no way of draining your boiler that is a design fault in itself.

I can only suggest that you wait until it thaws and then find a way of draining the pipes and boiler, maybe by undoing a pipe connection? That will enable you to use it temporarily for transport, until you can get a permanent fix. Then you really need to get the water pipes inboard somehow and preferably running alongside the heater ducts, which will mean they will not need lagging. That is the standard way that European converters make sure they can be used in the winter.

 

[CazPaul]

The van was supposed to be 4 seasons, the main insulation is great and I supplied pipe insulation to be fitted, but the convertor didn’t use it he has sold his business and the new guy is ready and willing to sort it but because of Covid I cannot get the van to him.
I posted on here to get practical tips for thawing the pipes, I know the problem but don’t want to anything that could make things worse, so is poring warm water into fresh water tank a daft idea? throwing warm or hot water on the pipes where I can ? Or should I just leave alone until the warmer weather and hope if I have to travel in van ( it’s my only vehicle) movement doesn’t fracture the pipes etc.

What make van is it by the way?

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[Otter Spotter]

Thanks for your input.
I chose the 240v water heater as I do not expect to do much wild camping and would normally use EHU. We have an Invertor and both electric kettle and Wallas Diesel habitation heater and hob, so can normally heat water if we cannot use the fixed water heater. As regards external piping, I will be working with my new convertor to re route the piping and insulate where required, I have found some pipe heating cable which I may invest in and fit as soon as we are able.
I did’nt want gas in the van.

 

[Otter Spotter]

What make van is it by the way?

It’s an Otter Spotter special I purchased a brand new white van, specked and designed it myself and had a ‘professional’ convertor to do the work. Problem was it turned out he was only used to doing VDub conversions and he quoted me 6 to 8 weeks and it took 12 month, so when we got the van off him some stuff wasn’t done as we would have wanted it. We love the van just the little bits like piping wasn’t done to our spec.

 

[TheBig1]

Moving the van will not damage frozen pipes. The water frozen and expanded into ice will have already done any damage it is going to do underneath the van. Thawing might see the water pour out of splits or separated pipe joints.

I would thaw it by blocking the gap round the bottom of the van and use a fan heater to warm up the void. To protect the boiler, I would turn on the diesel heater to ensure it thaws before rupturing

When reconfiguring, a drain at the lowest point (under the van) is essential

 

[TinaLes]

Agree, it`s probably best to let them thaw naturally and pray your boiler is not burst

I did a complete drain down before Christmas but realised yesterday I`d run some water down the sink afterwards and not emptied the waste trap - frozed solid this morning. 20 minutes with a fan heater and all was well, no blown joints thankfully.
I`ve filled the traps with screen wash now.

Well talk about everyday is a school day!, having drained down Caravan, now MH for a few years now, I have never heard mention of under sink water traps freezing being a problem, or recommended that they should also be drained down. Probably because most people would perceive that as any stored water in the trap has room to expand & contract, then its not a concern.
I bet most people on here haven't heard of waste traps being a problem if they get frozen, unless they are using the van, but hats off to you for bringing it to my attention, I wonder what others think?, is antifreeze down the plug hole needed, or just belt & braces.
Apart from dismantling the trap itself, I suppose a big rubber plunger to purge any water past the trap would also be a good idea.?
Thanks
LES

 

[clanjones]

I use neat screenwash in the shower trap which I can't get at. The other sinks have accessible screw on cap traps.

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[The Wino]

Well talk about everyday is a school day!, having drained down Caravan, now MH for a few years now, I have never heard mention of under sink water traps freezing being a problem, or recommended that they should also be drained down. Probably because most people would perceive that as any stored water in the trap has room to expand & contract, then its not a concern.
I bet most people on here haven't heard of waste traps being a problem if they get frozen, unless they are using the van, but hats off to you for bringing it to my attention, I wonder what others think?, is antifreeze down the plug hole needed, or just belt & braces.
Apart from dismantling the trap itself, I suppose a big rubber plunger to purge any water past the trap would also be a good idea.?
Thanks
LES

I think some people use a blown air thing to clear the trap. I've just got away with it by luck and as we don't usually use the van in the winter a lot of what's in the trap probably evaporates.

 

[Figaro]

I put either salt or windscreen washer fluid down, both stop freezing up.
I think they are low risk as there is room for expansion when they turn to ice, but better safe than sorry. My shower traps would be a pig to get to if freezing did push a waste pipe off.