Flat cab battery

[Rodders1234]

Trying to leave Abbey Wood site yesterday and no engine start.
There was no attempt at trying to turn over the engine, just flickering dials on the dash and lots of red alert messages about checking tranmission and powersteering, plus tyre monitor could not activate!
Anyway breakdown service got us going with a jump start from his battery jump starter. After 6 hours travelling the battery is still as flat as a pancake. Luckily I was able to drive home without turning the engine off otherwise it would not have started again without help.
How can I by sure the battery is the problem? We were on EHU for a week and this would normally charge the cab battery.

If I need to replace the battery where can I get a MH cab battery as the battery suppliers search ’put in your reg to find the battery’ does not reconise a MH reg. Also it seems more complicated than fitting a standard car battery. See photo below.
Any advice gratefully recieved. Thanks

6

 

[David and Sally]

Do you have any warning lights on with the engine running? Even with a duff battery it will at least retain some charge for a short while if the alternator is ok.

 

[Bessy765]

You could get the X290 Fiat 3 litre battery, it will fit in the battery compartment and is heavier duty than the 2.3 one.

 

[franknjan]

Most motor factors will have a battery for a fiat ducato.
What manufacturer is your motorhome.
We've had a similar issue. If you've been using cab radio, it will discharge the vehicle battery even on EHU. On our autotrail we need to select vehicle battery for it to charge off EHU.
Hope you sort out your problem.

 

[Rodders1234]

David and Sally. No warning lights when it was running. Currently I can’t strt it but if I connect the EHU do you think it would start?

hi Bessy, the engine is 3 lt. Are you saying from the photo its a 2.3 battery And I need a heavier duty battery?

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[David and Sally]

It should charge on ehu. You really need a multimeter to check voltage when off ehu, on ehu and when running. That will give you a clue. Otherwise, drop into.a battery centre and get them to check in.

 

[Itsmcb]

It should be no more complicated to remove. The complicated looking fuse thing on the positive terminal is attached to the terminal clamp and will come off in one piece when you undo the clamp but just ensure there is no current going to the battery via a battery master type device.

 

[David and Sally]

hi Bessy, the engine is 3 lt. Are you saying from the photo its a 2.3 battery And I need a heavier duty battery?

IMHO that is not your issue. Even a fully charged small battery will turn over and start your engine.
Either it’s not charging or something is discharging it very quickly. Or, it’s totally goosed. Above checks will inform us all more.

 

[Rodders1234]

Its 3lt fiat ducato Hymer b544 There was nothing running i.e radio or lights etc. If there was the alternator would have topped up the battery with the 6 hour journey. But nothing in the battery once I’d turned the ignition off.
Tried the fiat manual but it about as helpful as chocolate teapot.

 

[LesW]

Check the gearbox/engine earth strap?

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[Rodders1234]

Interesting about the battery master. I had one fitted by Van bitz a couple of months ago. How do I stop any current going to the battery?

 

[pappajohn]

If you drove for 6 hours and the battery was still flat its some other problem and not the battery.
The battery would accept a charge even if it couldn't hold it and it certainly wouldn't run that long if the battery wasn't getting a charge.
Most likely culprit is engine to chassis earth straps.
Did the breakdown feller put one jump lead to somewhere on the engine and the other to the battery?
If so, he bypassed the engine chassis earth strap to start it.

 

[David and Sally]

Interesting about the battery master. I had one fitted by Van bitz a couple of months ago. How do I stop any current going to the battery?

If there is one disconnect it. It’s only thre wires but I don’t think that is your issue. The earth strap is favourite suspect. Locate it, take off bolts, wire brush everything and reconnect. Use some Vaseline or grease to stop any further corrosion.

 

[Itsmcb]

Disconnect it. It’s only thre wires but I don’t think that is your issue. The earth strap is favourite suspect. Locate it, take off bolts, wire brush everything and reconnect. Use some Vaseline or grease to stop any further corrosion.

I mentioned the battery master not as a possible source of the problem but to inform the OP that there could still be a current going to the battery if he decides to remove it (the battery). If the earth strap is suspected use a jump lead from the negative battery terminal to the engine block as a test.

 

[David and Sally]

I mentioned the battery master not as a possible source of the problem but to inform the OP that there could still be a current going to the battery if he decides to remove it (the battery). If the earth strap is suspected use a jump lead from the negative battery terminal to the engine block as a test.

Good shout. A backup earth will tell if it’s the original earth strap at fault.

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[Rodders1234]

Getting a bit technical. Is the strap top LHD not the earth strap? I think I need some idea what it looks like and where it might be? Thanks

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Interesting about the battery master. I had one fitted by Van bitz a couple of months ago. How do I stop any current going to the battery?

Disconnect it ,but don't understand why you do not want current going to the cab battery. You only see current to the cab battery once the hab batteries are charged.

 

[David and Sally]

Like this. Left hand side. Bright metal strap

 

[Puddleduck]

We had the same issue last week and it appears that the plates in the battery had collapsed or something like that. Anyway the battery was to blame. A new battery installed and (touch wood) all now appears to be back to normal. Ours was checked at our local garage and he checked all the stuff noted above (not the battery master as we don't have one) as well as rodent damage.

Batteries do not last forever ..... we've also had the same thing happen with a car.

 

[gus-lopez]

Easiest is to check battery voltage with a meter first. If it is dead it will show straightaway.

Currently I can’t strt it but if I connect the EHU do you think it would start?

If you have a dead battery I wouldn't want to be leaving it connected too long as that can lead to the death of the airbag ECU.

Getting a bit technical. Is the strap top LHD not the earth strap? I think I need some idea what it looks like and where it might be? Thanks

No that is the earth starp to chassis for the battery . You are looking for one that connects the Chassis to the engine somewhere.

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[GeoffnDee]

It should be no more complicated to remove. The complicated looking fuse thing on the positive terminal is attached to the terminal clamp and will come off in one piece when you undo the clamp but just ensure there is no current going to the battery via a battery master type device.

Just to add , if you do need to change the battery ,you will also need to remove the two screws through the red plastic piece on the left, in the photo, of the positive terminal clamp (they screw into the top of the battery to help to hold the fuse block/terminal in its correct place)

 

[Itsmcb]

Disconnect it ,but don't understand why you do not want current going to the cab battery. You only see current to the cab battery once the hab batteries are charged.

It's a safety thing really, if there is current coming through the battery master when the starter battery is disconnected the positive clamp will still be live even though it's off the starter battery and would be easy to short when manoeuvring the battery out. This could easily be the case if the van has solar charging the habitation battery.

 

[Rodders1234]

To stop the battery master charging (I have 2 solar panels) could I simply switch off the battery cut-off switch on the Transformer/rectifier block?

 

[Mr and Mrs O]

If you have access to a multimeter set it for 20dc red probe to + on battery black to - see what it reads should be 12v or more then if you can jump start the vehicle and repeat with the engine running it should show 13-14.5 volts thats what your alternator is charging your battery at.
Hope it helps

 

[GeoffnDee]

To stop the battery master charging (I have 2 solar panels) could I simply switch off the battery cut-off switch on the Transformer/rectifier block?

It would depend on the connections made by Vanbitz when it was fitted, may be best to ring them as they could have used a fuse to isolate the battery master from the starter battery if required.
As pappajohn asked, can you confirm if the breakdown person connected both of their jump leads directly to the battery terminals shown in the photo as if both positive and negative jump leads were connected to the battery terminals, and it then started, the problem is not the engine to chassis earth but it could be if he connected the jump leads anywhere else to get you started.

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[Rodders1234]

Sorry I wad not paying enough attention to see but for some reason I think it was the positive terminal and chassis.
My thoughts are to get a multimeter and check the voltage then speak to van bitz before disconnecting the battery and fit a new battery.

Thank you everybody for your suggestions.

 

[Bessy765]

The battery master will not cause the problems you are facing if anything it will be trying to put power to the starter battery but it max is 1 amp. When the breakdown service jump started you did he use the connections under the bonnet i.e. the lug under a plastic cover for the red positive lead and a bolt on the engine for the negative lead. If you have a jump lead with you try one end onto a bolt on the engine and the other end to the chassis. (Not the lug under the plastic cover.)This will determine if there is an earth strap fault. Another try is to release the earth clamp on the battery terminal shown in your picture just to check that connections is sound. Make sure everything is turned off before you try to disconnect it. Scrape gently the battery terminal and the clamp Then reconnect. If this does not work disconnect the earth clamp again and do the same with the positive one. These are unlikely to have failed but start at the cheapest repair first and work your way around.

 

[Rodders1234]

The jump start was in the cab rather than around the engine as the battery is fitted in the footwell.

 

[Bessy765]

If the van was started from jump leads put directly on your battery, it will either be the battery gone u/s or a charging issue. If the earth strap was the problem it would unlikely start using jump leads directly to the engine battery. I would still check the connectors to you engine battery as previously suggested, just to rule them out.

 

[Catpirate]

Hi, how is your battery charged on EHU. My Burstner uses a Schaudt Elektrblock mine only floats the cab battery (max 2A) I had an instance where the fuse had blown, looking at your pic it was the yellow 20A fuse. The red fuse 50A is for the alternator charge to the hab batteries. If your battery is flat it is unlikely that the EHU will charge it you will need a proper battery charger. As mentioned above getting the battery out is not a big problem. If you can it may be best to take to a battery retailer with the facility to test yours. I find Tayna batteries a very good supplier and I think your battery is probably an 019 battery.

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