Euro 6 v euro 5 = clean air zones, help (1 Viewer)

[vzac]

Hi, I have a euro 6 mh, but changing it to a euro 5 mh. Reason new build poor quality euro 6 verse quality euro 5 2nd hand built van. So hears my worry, low emission zones, and the future, ability to drive in uk and europe, in a euro 5 van without being fined for driving a euro 5. Is it going to get worse. Not interested in going into cities, but people like Burnham, are demanding motorways as well should be included.
I also have a beef re charges and cleaner air v have to potentially scrap 1,000s of vehicle that have up to 20yrs life in them, thus creating more waste, when we are being told to reduce waste might just have to take van and go live in africa, or India.
And why have the Gov not done more to get Van's to be retrofitted and give Grant's to do it like large hgvs and busses.
Thoughts welcome.

 

[Neil S]

Motorways come under highways England control
So will not be subject to the proposed clean air zone

 

[Clipgate]

As your narrative suggests the situation is more likely to become more challenging, indeed quite rapidly in my view.
A great deal of financial interest in promoting alternative technology, without an infrastructure to support it now or in the near future.
One example, TFL are running all electric buses, however due to poor infrastructure they are charged by individual diesel generators at night running without emission constraints.
Full electric cars used values are likely to fall rapidly due battery life and disposal costs.
Where is this situation leading I ask myself, perhaps the Betamax recording battle has a pointer!

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[Simon Meadwell]

Yep we all need to go electric they say. So you live in a terraced street how do you plug your car in . Just leave the lead on the pavement. Or is electric only for those who have a drive. Knee jerk poorly thought out solution.

 

[Otter Spotter]

There are a number of issues that this legislation is throwing up-
1 The DVLA have been miss re registering Van conventions for the last 18 months is this why so they can be caught up by the ’clean air’ zones and charged when they should get the Motorhome exemption?
2 The current Electric charging infrastructure is not fit for purpose, especially in city centres
3 Does the Government expect all Greater Manchester residents to change their vehicles within the next 5 years ? Don’t think so, and the current % of Electric owned vehicles is too small to make a dent in the ‘Problem’
4 Covid has hit the very people that have to travel into the area, those in the hospitality trade, forcing them into Public transport that is a weak service currently, not always safe and not clean by most standards, they will never be able to afford the suitable motors to go to work. Thus they will be forced to change jobs and work outside the zone. Manchester, instead of being a centre of the ‘Northern Power house‘ will over time become the empty Husk as people start to move out.
5 what assistance will residents of the zone get to improve their personal transport? None I suspect as the powers that be want personal transport, at least in the conurbations, to be reduced forcing people onto the Public transport systems.

I understand the supposed reasons for the Clean air Zones, and I understand that action has to be taken, but like the ‘ Diesel cock up where the Government of the day wanted all to drive diesel as it was cleaner and reduced the tax on diesel fuel, then realised they were wrong after so many people bought into it. This could happen again with Electric cars , it’s already happening with hybrid vehicles. I suspect in a there is a bigger force working here and that is the motor trade wanting to turn out new motors faster and the Government getting their tax quicker on the sales, than on fuel consumption.

Finally, how is the treasury going to get paid fuel duty if they continue with the current system, if fossil fuel motors are forced off the road, are we all going to get travel tags which will clock’ up our mileage and we get debited? Or are they going to force all vehicles to have transponders or GPS trackers feeding info to a tax collection point? That could have massive ‘Big brother’ implication.

 

[vzac]

Motorways come under highways England control
So will not be subject to the proposed clean air zone

Sorry and you believe the government. Just look at covid, government changing there minds daily. This will happen with vehicles as well ' mark my word' I am to old and long in the tooth to believe anything the government/civil service says for more than the day they say it.

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[Odd job]

My daughter has a Euro 5 car I tried hard to find a converter to upgrade it to Euro 6, willing to pay up to£5,000 but have been told it isn't just about converting but about getting approval for the conversation
They only do trucks and buses. If they really cared about the environmentthey would support upgrade services so people could keep older cars, rather than scrapping them.

 

[EuroTrotters]

I’m all for cleaner air. But it needs addressing better than it is being.

Where we live, the area is chocked with traffic.

Old busses, trucks, cars and vans belching out fumes.

Where our grandchildren go to school. It is beside a traffic corridor that is constantly jammed with traffic.

Parents sit outside school with engines running. The ice van stinks of diesel fumes. The old school busses exhaust fumes makes your eyes sting.

I drive behind cars and vans that clearly would not pass an mot. But where are the police ?. We don’t have them.

We have a railway station that has a train once a week !.

Taxing the everyday working man is not the way forward, is it ?. It’s more a money making scheme that will be a minefield.

I say working man. My mate used to be a taxi driver. He often worked “the estates”. He would get a call to go to say miss Jones. Miss Jones is on benefits, has been for years. He would take her to the shop in his cab, 5 mins walk from the house. She would go into the local store, 20 bensons, loaf of bread. Next door into the Chinese for a take out and drop her back off. It’s not going to effect the benefit career types is it ?.


When you call a plumber and question his bill, bear in mind it could cost him £10 just to get off his drive. Or around £2,000 a year extra motoring cost.

i agree too, there is too much traffic on the roads. But many people will still be able to get in their cars, drive to a supermarket just for a loaf of bread and not get charged.

It’s just a crazy, I’ll thought out scheme. Probably dreamt up by people who simply do not live in the real world.

As for the grants !. Another waste of money.

 

[jezport]

A number of Euro5 motorhomes will pass for low emission status if they were purchased late in 2016. My Euro5 is August 2016 and passes all including the uLEZ

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[vzac]

Alas mine is a 15 plate, but it is a euro 5+, you would have thought the + would have helped. Alas no, except in Bristol, but nowhere else, as yet.

 

[EuroTrotters]

I’m all for cleaner air. But it needs addressing better than it is being.

Where we live, the area is chocked with traffic.

Old busses, trucks, cars and vans belching out fumes.

Where our grandchildren go to school. It is beside a traffic corridor that is constantly jammed with traffic.

Parents sit outside school with engines running. The ice van stinks of diesel fumes. The old school busses exhaust fumes makes your eyes sting.

I drive behind cars and vans that clearly would not pass an mot. But where are the police ?. We don’t have them.

We have a railway station that has a train once a week !.

Taxing the everyday working man is not the way forward, is it ?. It’s more a money making scheme that will be a minefield.

I say working man. My mate used to be a taxi driver. He often worked “the estates”. He would get a call to go to say miss Jones. Miss Jones is on benefits, has been for years. He would take her to the shop in his cab, 5 mins walk from the house. She would go into the local store, 20 bensons, loaf of bread. Next door into the Chinese for a take out and drop her back off. It’s not going to effect the benefit career types is it ?.


When you call a plumber and question his bill, bear in mind it could cost him £10 just to get off his drive. Or around £2,000 a year extra motoring cost.

i agree too, there is too much traffic on the roads. But many people will still be able to get in their cars, drive to a supermarket just for a loaf of bread and not get charged.

It’s just a crazy, I’ll thought out scheme. Probably dreamt up by people who simply do not live in the real world.

As for the grants !. Another waste of money.

And we don’t have the police to do anything about this daily play time. 24 hours a day , 7 days a week

 

[Brains]

Even Euro 6 has a 'sell by' date of 2023

Accept the fact that diesel vehicles will be unable to go into most City/lager town centers within western Europe within the next few years.

My solution is to buy a LPG powered car as a local runabout.
And store the van 20 miles away outside the LEZ zone.

(Not that I can park the van at home in anycase, whatever it runs on)

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[Puddleduck]

2 The current Electric charging infrastructure is not fit for purpose, especially in city centres

And nearly all the charging stations that are in place are in accessible for wheelchair users. Not that there are electric cars that can be converted for wheelchair users who need ramp and hoist at the moment.

We have a railway station that has a train once a week !.

Our nearest railway stations are 26 miles away.

We do have a bus stop and have a bus on Mondays and Wednesdays - but it takes 2 hours to get to a town 8 miles away and you only get an hour before you need to be back on the bus for the 2 hours back. I never seen anyone use it.

 

[Guigsy]

The elephant in the room... we're driving too much. The country has been built around personal motorised transport. Changing to EVs will not reduce congestion. And it turns out that a lot of particulate pollution is actually caused by tyres and brake dust, which EVs aren't going to do much about.

 

[cmcardle75]

The elephant in the room... we're driving too much. The country has been built around personal motorised transport. Changing to EVs will not reduce congestion. And it turns out that a lot of particulate pollution is actually caused by tyres and brake dust, which EVs aren't going to do much about.

Actually, they do solve the brake dust, as only emergency braking uses the brakes. Normal braking is done using the motor. I'd like to see more information about the tyre situation. I saw a figure bandied about of 5.8g/km being mentioned. This is clearly absurd, as after a typical tyre life of 30,000km, it would have emitted 174kg of itself into the ether. We don't all use tractor tyres.

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[Guigsy]

Actually, they do solve the brake dust, as only emergency braking uses the brakes. Normal braking is done using the motor. I'd like to see more information about the tyre situation. I saw a figure bandied about of 5.8g/km being mentioned. This is clearly absurd, as after a typical tyre life of 30,000km, it would have emitted 174kg of itself into the ether. We don't all use tractor tyres.

Agreed. I too am sceptical. As with 'diesel is good' > 'diesel is bad', don't expect EVs to solve the all the planet's issues. They are far from perfect.

 

[Odd job]

What we need is better public transport at affordable prices, but there's no money in that so they won't do it

 

[Guigsy]

What we need is better public transport at affordable prices, but there's no money in that so they won't do it

And at least a partial reverse of people living and working massive distances apart.

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[Cheshirecat57]

What we need is better public transport at affordable prices, but there's no money in that so they won't do it

I dont need Public Transport ….cant stand the public

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Daily Commuting will soon be a thing of the past, not enough life hours to waste going to a white collar workplace

 

[Cheshirecat57]

Hi, I have a euro 6 mh, but changing it to a euro 5 mh. Reason new build poor quality euro 6 verse quality euro 5 2nd hand built van. So hears my worry, low emission zones, and the future, ability to drive in uk and europe, in a euro 5 van without being fined for driving a euro 5. Is it going to get worse. Not interested in going into cities, but people like Burnham, are demanding motorways as well should be included.
I also have a beef re charges and cleaner air v have to potentially scrap 1,000s of vehicle that have up to 20yrs life in them, thus creating more waste, when we are being told to reduce waste might just have to take van and go live in africa, or India.
And why have the Gov not done more to get Van's to be retrofitted and give Grant's to do it like large hgvs and busses.
Thoughts welcome.

Anyway, to get back “on message” , no doubt it will get tougher on Euro 5s to enter more and more towns/cities, but if you are compelling yourself to go back to Euro5 for YOUR set of reasons, then you may have to plan storage and trips differently to now
Personally that seems a lot of arse under the guise of “better build quality”, but that just my opinion …which you asked for

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[gus-lopez]

Actually, they do solve the brake dust, as only emergency braking uses the brakes. Normal braking is done using the motor. I'd like to see more information about the tyre situation. I saw a figure bandied about of 5.8g/km being mentioned. This is clearly absurd, as after a typical tyre life of 30,000km, it would have emitted 174kg of itself into the ether. We don't all use tractor tyres.

You will never change the people who cannot drive properly from constantly using the brakes.

What we need is better public transport at affordable prices,

I personally would never use public transport.
also it is ok if you have no need to be in 27 different places every day.

And at least a partial reverse of people living and working massive distances apart.

I doubt that it will happen. not many ,except the spanish wish, to live on top of the job.

 

[cmcardle75]

You will never change the people who cannot drive properly from constantly using the brakes.

You have to press the brake pedal really quite hard for the brake pads to come into contact with the discs. The resultant deceleration would be regarded as being towards the uncomfortable end for most passengers.

 

[Guigsy]

I dont need Public Transport ….cant stand the public

I'm not a fan either. But at least you can read or even do something constructive if you're lucky enough to get a table. I don't understand why people would prefer to tire themselves out, mindlessly sitting in traffic on on the motorway.

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[Guigsy]

You have to press the brake pedal really quite hard for the brake pads to come into contact with the discs. The resultant deceleration would be regarded as being towards the uncomfortable end for most passengers.

Many people I know seem to think driving requires you to alternately flatten the carpet under the 'go' pedal, then immediately test the functionality of the seatbelt inertial real.

 

[vzac]

Anyway, to get back “on message” , no doubt it will get tougher on Euro 5s to enter more and more towns/cities, but if you are compelling yourself to go back to Euro5 for YOUR set of reasons, then you may have to plan storage and trips differently to now
Personally that seems a lot of arse under the guise of “better build quality”, but that just my opinion …which you asked for

And I like and thanks for getting back on topic. Better build quality, I should have said, falling apart, and again going back to factory. It's sort of arguing the toss and getting nowhere fast with the dealer, or moving on with life taking a slight hit, and actually getting out on the rd and into the hills.
Thanks

 

[Otter Spotter]

And I like and thanks for getting back on topic. Better build quality, I should have said, falling apart, and again going back to factory. It's sort of arguing the toss and getting nowhere fast with the dealer, or moving on with life taking a slight hit, and actually getting out on the rd and into the hills.
Thanks

Good luck Phil, hope you get what you want soon

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[vzac]

Thanks, will let you know the outcome, perhaps mid october.

 

[pyro]

Nobody knows the answers to the original question, and in any case, it is likely to only affect urban/metropolitan zones.

As I understand things, Euro 6 is merely the latest emissions standard in a series, which some Euro 5s already exceed without adblue anyway (eg later Ducato 130s sold as Euro 5+ and having Euro 6 emission levels?). I don't profess to be a mechanic, but that's my understanding

But I also agree with the OP about shoddy workmanship/materials/crap after sales support at shocking prices in the latest motorhomes, and many before me have commented that there will have to be huge infrastructural changes to meet the colossal demand for recharging power. The futility in, say, refusing to buy a hybrid just because of current plans to phase them out isn't borne out by the manufacturers who are making and selling them like hot cakes.

It is a mess, and I very much doubt you'll find the answers you seek on a motorhome forum. If the likes of Toyota, VW, Mercedes, BMW, Volvo etc are all promoting "self charging/hybrids" then I strongly suspect the ICE will live on for some time, as will the need to fuel them. I don't plan to buy shares in Tesla any day soon.

My guess, and that's all it can be, is that there will soon be a swing towards hydrogen powered vehicles, a thriving market in ICE/hydrogen retrospective conversion kit, and it will all be a couple of decades away anyway. Shipping and power generation are far higher priorities as far as pollution goes, and the future of gas central heating is looking distinctly uncertain.

And if idiots like Burnham bleat on about LEZs, then I suggest you keep clear of Manchester.

 

[SpeedyDux]

My crystal ball says that LEZs and CAZs will expand to cover regions in many countries in Europe. It won't just be cities.

When there are high pollution levels there is the practice of only allowing odd and even registration numbers to drive on alternate days. Paris being an example. Belgium cuts the motorway maximum speed on such days, which isn't very handy if you are trying to catch a ferry.

Governments at all levels are going to play the game of environmentally Green top trumps. The restrictions are only going to get worse.

I would stick with the flimsy Euro 6 MH and use a lot of gaffer tape and extra screws when things fall apart. Or buy a cloaking device.

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