Engine braking - OK or not OK? (1 Viewer)

[roxburd]

Hi all,

Do you use engine braking in your motorhome? I find myself using it a little from time to time and I suspect it's frowned upon by HGV instructors... but I've never had any instruction so I'm curious. I'd never driven a big diesel before last month. I've done the IAM motorcycle advanced test and they have a saying - brakes to slow, gears to go. It basically means that you shouldn't use engine braking. They also advise block-changing - changing to the gear you want all in one go, rather than changing one gear at a time and declutching between. And not changing gear at all until you've finished braking. It all depends on circumstance but they are general guidance points.

I try to drive my MH at a very leisurely pace - but I'm still occasionally tempted to use a little engine braking - for example, as I'm entering a roundabout with a little more speed than I'd like to carry round and the gear I want will give some braking.

I realise this might seem a bit 'who cares' to some but I've found myself wondering and so thought I'd see what people think... I suppose the important question is this: can gentle engine braking cause any mechanical issues?? I wouldn't have thought so...

Cheers
(let the disagreements commence)

 

[pappajohn]

Engine braking on a diesel is pretty abysmal.
It's drawing the same volume of air regardless of pedal position.....off or floored.
The different being injection of fuel to make it go.

 

[dunnah01]

Essential in the mountains or you'll cook your brakes

 

[Dazzola]

Your motorcycle instructor couldn't be more wrong if he tried my friend.
Engine braking is very important for stability on a bike, it keeps things taught, inline and ready for the next gear change.
Using brakes only is a fools game, wet conditions -engine braking, gives you the first pointers to the grip available.
You should be listening to the engines tone during slowdown, and matching engine speed to gear position and rate of deceleration.
Kind of the same thing with a van, motorhome or car, it's a feel thing and it can make your discs and pads last much longer!

 

[Figaro]

I use engine braking on long decents, 3rd gear mostly, as that is how I was taught.
I know gears are for go and brakes for slow, but on long decents you're going to smoke the brakes without some engine braking to take the strain.

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[Northernraider]

Riding a bike is way different from driving a car and even more different from driving a motorhome. As others have said ...on hill descents etc it's better to use a bit engine braking,

 

[Barti Ddu]

I don't get the motorcycle instructor's view at all. With a high compression petrol engine as fitted to any motorcycle, as soon as you roll off the throttle, you get a pretty big dollup of engine braking whether you want it or not. Obviously if you want to slow down any faster then you'll need to supplement this with braking too.

Last year in our Ducato motorhome I went down loads of hairpin strewn, steep Alpine passes in Germany, Austria and Slovenia. I don't see how you can descend safely without getting into a lowish gear to get some engine braking.

 

[St3v3]

Engine braking on a diesel is pretty abysmal.

It works well on my 1.9tdi Passat, and 7.5t DAF. The transit works, but you've got to drop 6th to 4th for example because the ratios are really close.

It works because the engine is still going through compression strokes. And as you know, diesels are generally higher compression too.

 

[Figaro]

There was a guy on facebook recently that absolutely destroyed a newish clutch on an elderly Hymer using engine braking.
The clutch was completely shredded to a pile of fiberous matter and twisted metal, looked like it had been through a grater.
But I think he was using 1st gear

 

[St3v3]

There was a guy on facebook recently that absolutely destroyed a newish clutch on an elderly Hymer using engine braking.
The clutch was completely shredded to a pile of fiberous matter and twisted metal, looked like it had been through a grater.
But I think he was using 1st gear

He obviously wasn't matching the revs to the speed before letting the clutch out. Terrible ride

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[poppycamper]

Do you use engine braking in your motorhome? I find myself using it a little from time to time and I suspect it's frowned upon by HGV instructors

The many, many "Low Gear Now" signs around the country would tend to disagree..

 

[Googlebot]

We had an Ambulance at work that someone attempted to engine brake into 2nd gear at 60mph.

They never even found the 3rd piston…….

I use engine braking on the long alpine descents, you don’t have a choice unless you want to crash.

 

[Guigsy]

I did a bike safe course and you'll rarely see police motorcyclists use their brakes, even when they're hussling pretty fast. If you needed to brake for a corner, you judged it wrong. Which is the ultimate sin as far as they are concerned. But then it is easier to slow on a bike just by rolling off the throttle.

I engine brake in the van... But there's so little resistance, it's just coasting really. The only bad engine braking is when you drop couple of cogs and just dump the clutch. As long as you blip the throttle a bit to match speeds, it's fine. Anything that slows you fairly rapidly, you probably ought to be on the brakes anyway, if only so the brake lights come on and someone doesn't run into the back of you.

 

[stevewagner]

An instructor once told me that engine braking used to be the norm but not now unless extreme conditions. His reasoning was that it’s far cheaper to replace brakes than a clutch.

 

[poppycamper]

We had an Ambulance at work that someone attempted to engine brake into 2nd gear at 60mph.

They never even found the 3rd piston…….

I use engine braking on the long alpine descents, you don’t have a choice unless you want to crash.

That's the problem.... you need to use brakes to initially slow down and then select lower gear at correct speed AND THEN use engine braking to stop vehicle from going any faster... if it does and starts over reving engine.. brake to bring speed back down..

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[Barti Ddu]

An instructor once told me that engine braking used to be the norm but not now unless extreme conditions. His reasoning was that it’s far cheaper to replace brakes than a clutch.

But using a combination of both as appropriate, means you won't have to replace either clutch or brakes!

 

[St3v3]

His reasoning was that it’s far cheaper to replace brakes than a clutch.

As mentioned, if you raise the revs to match there is no wear on the clutch. The Passat gearbox is really good without a clutch at all if you get the revs right.

I suppose an instructor dealing with new drivers doesn't want to give anyone something else to think about so not bothering is better until they can learn some more advanced stuff.

 

[POH]

So how do you use engine braking ?

 

[Otter Spotter]

Hi all,

Do you use engine braking in your motorhome? I find myself using it a little from time to time and I suspect it's frowned upon by HGV instructors... but I've never had any instruction so I'm curious. I'd never driven a big diesel before last month. I've done the IAM motorcycle advanced test and they have a saying - brakes to slow, gears to go. It basically means that you shouldn't use engine braking. They also advise block-changing - changing to the gear you want all in one go, rather than changing one gear at a time and declutching between. And not changing gear at all until you've finished braking. It all depends on circumstance but they are general guidance points.

I try to drive my MH at a very leisurely pace - but I'm still occasionally tempted to use a little engine braking - for example, as I'm entering a roundabout with a little more speed than I'd like to carry round and the gear I want will give some braking.

I realise this might seem a bit 'who cares' to some but I've found myself wondering and so thought I'd see what people think... I suppose the important question is this: can gentle engine braking cause any mechanical issues?? I wouldn't have thought so...

Cheers
(let the disagreements commence)

I think your instructors were talking about when you approach a bend or potential hazard you should be at the right speed/ right gear on the entry ready to drive around and on throttle as controlling the bike or MH for that matter with the throttle is ensuring balance and traction is safe and acting for you and not against you. Engine braking helps you in wet conditions, less chance of skidding and saves your break pads.

 

[EuroTrotters]

Always

And my Sprinter Van, does it itself

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[jockaneezer]

I started driving in '76 and was taught to engine brake. I've needed 4 clutch and one dual mass flywheel replacements in all that time, but never needed a replacement gearbox. I have though spent a small fortune on discs and pads

 

[Brianmor]

Having driven for over 54 years on 2 and 4 stroke bikes, 4 stroke and diesel cars and lorries I've only ever burnt out 1 clutch.
That was on a tuned 2 stroke motorbike but on acceleration rather than deceleration and having to keep it in the 1000rpm power band at 8000 revs.
When the majority of members started driving most engines produced less than 40 bhp but had loads of torque so we were used to driving gently so clutches and brakes were never under any stress This behaviour transferred to our current high power vehicles, this is why most members couldn't wear out clutches or brakes, one of very few benefits of being an old codger!

 

[Wee Bold Davy]

I always leave a good safe braking distance in front of me, I can then anticipate what's going on and react without hard braking, quite often slowing down gently using the gears, not using the brakes until necessary.
This way hard braking can be kept to a minimum. In 46 years I've only had to change 1 clutch. My last 3 cars had in excess of 100k miles on the clock and not had to change pads or discs very often.
Accident free in all those years including 12 years driving a lorry doing an average of 10k miles each month.
It seems to work for me

 

[Bramidan]

On my Morris Minor ( first car) if you didn’t use engine braking you didn’t stop

 

[donkey]

My last company car, a Skoda Octavia, went back at the end of its 100,000mile stint, with its original brake discs and pads, along with its original clutch and dual mass flywheel. Not relevant to this discussion, but it also had its original battery, exhaust and never needed so much as a new bulb.

Geoff

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[BikerGraham]

Bikes are ridden very differently to how cars and vans are driven though.

On a bike, I brake as little as possible. Preferring to watch ahead and adjust speed, road position and being in the right gear. There is generally a decent degree of natural braking when rolling off the throttle. This does vary though. Depending on the design of the engine.

My current bike has the boxer engine which has loads of engine breaking. So brakes hardly touched.

A previous one though, ZZR1400, had little and used to “over run” had to ride that very differently.

Back to the van though, again make sure it’s in the right gear for the road. But as has been said, on steep declines the road signs state to use low gear so I usually do. Stops the van sort of getting away from you too.
The brakes are used more often though on other roads. With a little gentle engine braking.

 

[Stoosal]

Hi all,

Do you use engine braking in your motorhome? I find myself using it a little from time to time and I suspect it's frowned upon by HGV instructors... but I've never had any instruction so I'm curious. I'd never driven a big diesel before last month. I've done the IAM motorcycle advanced test and they have a saying - brakes to slow, gears to go. It basically means that you shouldn't use engine braking. They also advise block-changing - changing to the gear you want all in one go, rather than changing one gear at a time and declutching between. And not changing gear at all until you've finished braking. It all depends on circumstance but they are general guidance points.

I try to drive my MH at a very leisurely pace - but I'm still occasionally tempted to use a little engine braking - for example, as I'm entering a roundabout with a little more speed than I'd like to carry round and the gear I want will give some braking.

I realise this might seem a bit 'who cares' to some but I've found myself wondering and so thought I'd see what people think... I suppose the important question is this: can gentle engine braking cause any mechanical issues?? I wouldn't have thought so...

Cheers
(let the disagreements commence)

Do you mean using each gear to slow on approach to traffic lights/roundabout ie changing from 4 to 3 to 2 etc?
If so, then advanced driving would suggest that you brake to a stop or appropriate speed for roundabout using brakes rather than gears, then select gear for that speed, matching road speed to engine speed. On downhill descents then gears to utilise engine compression to slow.

 

[Larby]

But using a combination of both as appropriate, means you won't have to replace either clutch or brakes!

For 24 years I towed a caravan with my 2.0L Cavalier. After 186,000 miles it still had original clutch and gearbox. What was I doing wrong ?
Admittedly I used braking.

 

[rod_vw]

We always use engine braking.

VW T6 now sold at 83000 miles, I've just changed the front brake pads as a courtesy to the new owner but I estimate they would have done the 100000 miles easily. The clutch and all other parts of the drive train are original and seem perfect.

Our new MAN TGE Auto holds a low gear automatically if descents are driven correctly.

 

[Lenny HB]

On my Morris Minor ( first car) if you didn’t use engine braking you didn’t stop

If you were brave enough to take master cylinder out (pig of a job) and change the seals they just about stopped.

My last company car, a Skoda Octavia, went back at the end of its 100,000mile stint, with its original brake discs and pads, along with its original clutch and dual mass flywheel. Not relevant to this discussion, but it also had its original battery, exhaust and never needed so much as a new bulb.

Geoff

My girlfriend's (now the boss) Mini I changed the universal joints on the drive shafts the brake discs looked like they had never been used. She lived on Romney Mash no hills or traffic.