Electric Tripped

[Folkranger]

Sorted now, but why did it trip?

We tripped the site box as soon as we landed as it's only 4 amp. So I decided to use the kettle (3.2 Amps) and the water heater (unknown) separately.

Then I decided to set the victron multicontrol to 4 amps max and leave the inverter on. This seemed OK and the water heater by itself was drawing on the inverter so more than 4 amps. After an hour I switched the water heater off as the blue light on the multicontrol was telling me "battery getting low of overload" All was then OK

An hour later with nothing on mains (except the fridge and charger) and the mains decided to cut off. It hadn't tripped the switches as all were still on, including the ones on the Victron inverter. There was just no power anywhere.

Another hour spent getting the site manager to check his box was OK and eventually repeatedly switching every switch off together and back on and the 240v reinstated itself.

But why did all the mains shut off in the first place?

 

[Folkranger]

Anybody?

 

[Lenny HB]

The first time could be due to overload as the kettle plus the heater will be well about 4 amps.
If you are in France or Spain site power going on and off is quite normal on some installations.

 

[Reallyretired]

Some site electrics on the continent are a bit unreliable. We have had them cut out for a while for no apparent reason. I suggest you get a lower wattage kettle, ours is just 1Kw, you have to wait a bit longer for your tea but you shouldn't trip anything.

 

[Folkranger]

The first time could be due to overload as the kettle plus the heater will be well about 4 amps.
If you are in France or Spain site power going on and off is quite normal on some installations.

The first site tripping was legit. The problem one was the van deciding to shut down mains without tripping the switches.

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[Folkranger]

Some site electrics on the continent are a bit unreliable. We have had them cut out for a while for no apparent reason. I suggest you get a lower wattage kettle, ours is just 1Kw, you have to wait a bit longer for your tea but you shouldn't trip anything.

Ours us 800w = 3.2A.
The problem was the van not the site.

 

[autorouter]

Another hour spent getting the site manager to check his box was OK and eventually repeatedly switching every switch off together and back on and the 240v reinstated itself.

Were you the only one connected to this box? If others were connected, maybe there was an earth leakage that tripped an RCD. Did you see which type of device actually tripped? Was it an RCD (with a 'Test' button) or an MCB (no test button)?

It's probably a bit too technical, but if you get the chance check the label written on the MCB switches. For example, a 6A MCB will be labelled either B6 or C6. The letter shows how sensitive the trip mechanism is. A B6 MCB is fine for most domestic circuits. A C6 MCB is called for if a big switch-on surge is expected, like a motor or inductor - A/C or compressor fridge for example. If your MCBs are C type, and the site MCBs are B type, the site MCBs might trip first if there's a surge.

 

[berni109]

I have one of these

It's the first thing connected to the hookup lead after it enters the van.set for acceptable over and under voltage and amps.
Maybe your victron gear has similar internally and one of the parameter was exceeded.

 

[Folkranger]

Were you the only one connected to this box? If others were connected, maybe there was an earth leakage that tripped an RCD. Did you see which type of device actually tripped? Was it an RCD (with a 'Test' button) or an MCB (no test button)?

It's probably a bit too technical, but if you get the chance check the label written on the MCB switches. For example, a 6A MCB will be labelled either B6 or C6. The letter shows how sensitive the trip mechanism is. A B6 MCB is fine for most domestic circuits. A C6 MCB is called for if a big switch-on surge is expected, like a motor or inductor - A/C or compressor fridge for example. If your MCBs are C type, and the site MCBs are B type, the site MCBs might trip first if there's a surge.

None were tripped. The manual said that the main switch and the switch at the inverter had to be both switched off to restore the system, which I did and by about the third time of trying the mains came back on.

 

[Folkranger]

I have one of theseView attachment 649883
It's the first thing connected to the hookup lead after it enters the van.set for acceptable over and under voltage and amps.
Maybe your victron gear has similar internally and one of the parameter was exceeded.

It looks like it may be.

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[Folkranger]

Getting old, obviously. Searching through old posts for solutions I came across one from last year exactly the same. Posted by ME!

I had a load of good advice from many funsters, particularly @autorwho was very comprehensive. Despite this, the problem resolved itself without me knowing why.

I'm kicking myself though that I did not remember having this problem before.

 

[berni109]

The wonders of 'older' age!

 

[autorouter]

The Victron Multiplus has lots of hidden capability, it can be used in systems where it takes power from the grid, and also feeds back to the grid, if for example there's a big solar array connected to the battery. It constantly monitors the grid mains voltage, and matches the inverter power figures to to the grid power figures. It can cut off if the grid power figures aren't right for some reason. I think that's what must have happened. There will probably be a log file somewhere detailing the errors it detected, but I don't know how to access it. Maybe the Victron Connect app.

 

[Raul]

The Victron Multiplus has lots of hidden capability, it can be used in systems where it takes power from the grid, and also feeds back to the grid, if for example there's a big solar array connected to the battery. It constantly monitors the grid mains voltage, and matches the inverter power figures to to the grid power figures. It can cut off if the grid power figures aren't right for some reason. I think that's what must have happened. There will probably be a log file somewhere detailing the errors it detected, but I don't know how to access it. Maybe the Victron Connect app.

It will only inject if country code is selected or ess installed. OP probably set as stand alone, it will only monitor the grid to synchronise and it will accept very wide voltage tolerances and frequency. I’m suspecting the power control not holding at 4A and overloaded the EHU. Mine jumps from 3 to 5,6A limit without reason. Probably on low voltage grid, can’t hold low power limit.

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

The problem with some sites is that the voltage is not 240v when lots of people are hooked up .voltages can drop as low as 200v and some appliances will still work.but are liable to trip the power. 4 amps is very low for a site ,just enough to power lights and maybe a trickle charger I doubt it would run a frusge combined with low volts at 4 amps.

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[Folkranger]

The problem with some sites is that the voltage is not 240v when lots of people are hooked up .voltages can drop as low as 200v and some appliances will still work.but are liable to trip the power. 4 amps is very low for a site ,just enough to power lights and maybe a trickle charger I doubt it would run a frusge combined with low volts at 4 amps.

It will run the fridge, lighting, charger and 3.2 amp kettle on the 4 amp setting.

 

[autorouter]

It will run the fridge, lighting, charger and 3.2 amp kettle on the 4 amp setting.

The Multiplus will dial back the charger power to keep within your set amps limit. It will allow you to run appliances with more than 4 amps, because it will 'assist' using the inverter, taking power from the battery, up to the full inverter power.

4A from the hookup is about 880W, so if it's a 1000W inverter you can use appliances up to 1000 + 880 = 1880W before you hit any limits. When the appliance load reduces, the charger refills the batteries again.

Most inverters are not synchronised to the hookup mains, so it's either/or, you can't (easily) use hookup and inverter together. The Multiplus synchronises to the mains and can play nicely with it.

 

[Folkranger]

What happens if the load exceeds the site max plus the inverter max?

 

[Raul]

What happens if the load exceeds the site max plus the inverter max?

If is on ehu, the inverter will allow max passthrough,(unless power control set lower), so if max passthrough exceeds ehu limit, it will trip the ehu, then overload the inverter if load still present.
Site trip, then overload shutdown.

 

[Folkranger]

Well another year on on holiday again and the mains has stopped working again. We were out so don't know how long. Fiddled with everything and nothing was tripped and had mains at EHU van end. Eventually while switching Victron muliti-control on and off a couple of times, the maions sprang to life. 3 years running. Beats me.

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[TheBig1]

many sites have power grid issues resulting in periods of very low voltage. The grid is still live, but not producing anywhere near the advertised Wattage. The Victron would only be capable of matching the output you are drawing or attempting to as long as there is enough battery and solar available. It is a very finite resource and if the battery voltage drops too low, the unit will shut down. The hook up will eventually recover and the battery start charging again

 

[Folkranger]

I think it started this time when the French camper plugged into the same box. Don't know why but mine went off. Nothing tripped or fused. Power to the van's ehu point but nothing working. Happened twice before so I think there is a bug, or a weakness in the victron controller which shuts all down and needs either time or rebooting to open up again.

 

[Raul]

I think it started this time when the French camper plugged into the same box. Don't know why but mine went off. Nothing tripped or fused. Power to the van's ehu point but nothing working. Happened twice before so I think there is a bug, or a weakness in the victron controller which shuts all down and needs either time or rebooting to open up again.

You need to check the settings in the multiplus, maybe are set to trip to early, so if the grid is outside parameters, it will disconnect.

 

[Folkranger]

You need to check the settings in the multiplus, maybe are set to trip to early, so if the grid is outside parameters, it will disconnect.

When you say tripped do you mean physically tripped because all the switches were on but the juice was off.

 

[Raul]

If your AC is coming from the inverter, yes the inverter can open the relay on the AC in, and cuts the EHU. You should still have power from battery.
Without knowing exactly how your system is wired, I can’t figure out why your power cut is happening.

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[Pausim]

eventually repeatedly switching every switch off together and back on and the 240v reinstated itself.

I have known breakers to trip without the switch moving to the off position, they appear to be on still. Moving the switch to off reengages it with the breaker which then resets when you move back to on.

 

[Folkranger]

I have known breakers to trip without the switch moving to the off position, they appear to be on still. Moving the switch to off reengages it with the breaker which then resets when you move back to on.

Could be. Toggled the switches on the multi remote and the main Victron box multiple times before anything came on.

 

[Pausim]

Could be. Toggled the switches on the multi remote and the main Victron box multiple times before anything came on.

If one of them has done this there is no resistance or clunk as you lower the switch from the on position only when you move it back.

 

[Folkranger]

If one of them has done this there is no resistance or clunk as you lower the switch from the on position only when you move it back.

Not sure. Seems a bit random to me.

 

[Folkranger]

2024 is now the 4th year that the mains has stopped working. Non of the switches on the Victron have tripped, allthough this year it started by tripping the site bollard. In the end it came back on only by heatedly switching the Victron between charge only and On and then it only works on charger only so I assume the inverter cant be used.