DVLA and Diabetes

[sedge]

DVLA want to know whether diabetics would like to tell them about our medical problems online instead of post or phone?

Yes PLEASE - much quicker hopefully as everything posted has to be scanned before it gets on their system so if you need to speak to them about it, that takes even longer meanwhile you have no idea whether it even got there!

Please complete this Survey from them

https://www.snapsurveys.com/wh/s.asp?k=142591000740

 

[Badknee]

I have a letter from them that tells me they are not interested in me having type 2, not sure if the same with type 1?

 

[Bollard]

I think you have to notify DVLA if you progress from diet only control for type 2 diabetes onto medication!

 

[New Dawn]

Being type 2 diet controlled. I had 2 heart attacks in the same day, whilst in hospital they put me on insulin temporarily for 6 mths, after informing DVLA I was on it they notified me no action needed. I now have to inform them I am back onto the medication. It would have been much easier to do it all on-line.

 

[Tootles]

I wouldn't tell them if all three legs dropped off!! Their only interested in how many licences they can pull back. And like all government departments, once they get your condition on their data base...........

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[Bulawayo Lass]

Only need to notify DVLA if on insulin or glictazade as both can cause hypos. Otherwise no need to tell them.

 

[sedge]

I wouldn't tell them if all three legs dropped off!! Their only interested in how many licences they can pull back. And like all government departments, once they get your condition on their data base...........

Well that post is an absolute insult to those of us who refuse to break the Law by not telling them or not carrying out the actions required by it, every time we get behind the wheel. It's entirely inappropriate.

The Medical Rules for diabetes were brought in to address a SAFETY issue and nothing else. It doesn't raise ANY money since although we have to renew our licence every 3 years - it's free. But they have to employ Medical Staff to review our answers on these forms - and our own medics replies on any forms they send them - to ensure that we are stable enough to grant renewal - or an application in the first place.

It may not matter much really if a diabetic kills himself this way - but it DOES matter if he takes anyone else with him!!

For you to dismiss that - is completely irresponsible.

 

[markh]

You are right sedge

 

[Tootles]

Well that post is an absolute insult to those of us who refuse to break the Law by not telling them or not carrying out the actions required by it, every time we get behind the wheel. It's entirely inappropriate.

The Medical Rules for diabetes were brought in to address a SAFETY issue and nothing else. It doesn't raise ANY money since although we have to renew our licence every 3 years - it's free. But they have to employ Medical Staff to review our answers on these forms - and our own medics replies on any forms they send them - to ensure that we are stable enough to grant renewal - or an application in the first place.

It may not matter much really if a diabetic kills himself this way - but it DOES matter if he takes anyone else with him!!

For you to dismiss that - is completely irresponsible.

Well, sod the law. and as for insulting anyone, I cant read any insults in my post..........Was anyone named?? Just my personal opinion, freely given, and hopefully taken in the same way as I took yours.....
I can, and will, dismiss anything I feel is incorrect, be it in your eyes irresponsible or not in your eyes, that's my prerogative. This is how sad it's getting. Went for an aorta check a few months ago. Interview with a nurse before the check, who informed me that should they find a 'problem', then they are 'empowered' to inform the DVLA. So I asked what would happen if I then just walked away. Ahhh, said nice lady, then they would inform DVLA that I had refused to take the test, and that my licence would be at 'great risk'. Charming. So much for the Hippocratic Oath.
Its mostly just part of their policy for taking drivers off the road.

It may not matter much really if a diabetic kills himself this way - but it DOES matter if he takes anyone else with him!!

And so it matters not that drunks 'take people with them' when they crash, or younger drivers, or foreigners on rubber driving licences, or those with no insurance.............When the DVLA start addressing these issues, then hey, I might just conform.

 

[sedge]

Well you should indeed have your licence taken off you if you know you have a reason (whether medical or eg drink/drive, drugs/drive) why you shouldn't be driving, whether it's the law or not.

Irresponsible people do not deserve to be granted the wherewithal to drive, do they? You should be able to do more about stopping the latter 2 (but maybe difficult with the cuts in policing, a different sore point!) but a lot of medical accidents (sudden heart attack or stroke which was entirely unprecedented) you can't prevent but you can try to prevent preventable ones, by introducing 'sensible preventative terms' such as with diabetes and heart trouble. You don't lose your licence forever unless whatever's wrong with you is immensely threatening to your (and when driving a lethal weapon - others) life (lives).

Aortic scan discovers a prob, advised mustn't drive - have it sorted - successful!! - get licence back. Same with diabetes - hypo at the wheel - sort it so it is hardly likely to happen again - after a suitable period of stability - again, get licence back. Yeah it's a drag, but we're all still here and have strong views on it !

Like having someone say we are stupid to be so bloody SENSIBLE about stuff WE have to live with 24/7 for every moment of the rest of OUR lives.

To me, it's a direct criticism of our caring enough about life itself.

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[Tootles]

but a lot of medical accidents (sudden heart attack or stroke which was entirely unprecedented) you can't prevent

Which by far are the majority. Today's healthy and responsible driver is tomorrows car crash fatality. You cant legislate for a dodgy ticker.

Aortic scan discovers a prob, advised mustn't drive

Nothing to do with 'advise', its all to do with big brother. Why should a medic have the right to inform anyone but yourself about your condition??

Like having someone say we are stupid to be so bloody SENSIBLE about stuff WE have to live with 24/7 for every moment of the rest of OUR lives.

And so, that makes it 'special'?? Many people have to live with a disability for the rest of their lives, but hey, they just get on with it. And I cant recall anyone calling another stupid about anything....unless you count irresponsible, a word you yourself mentioned??

 

[sedge]

"Tootles, post: 1351532, member: 28093"]

Nothing to do with 'advise', its all to do with big brother. Why should a medic have the right to inform anyone but yourself about your condition??

There's a very simple answer to that question. The Hippocratic Oath - which doctor's take! - confers a duty of care upon them in the words 'First do no harm' - so if they think a person is likely to come to harm by doing something fairly common in everyday life - the duty is upon them to try and prevent that happening in whatever way they can. So firstly they tell you that, if they really think you don't agree with what they say (for any reason) then really, they should go and get the Consultant - or at least, the Duty Houseman - to talk to you and try and persuade you - but of course he could be in theatre (you know, doing no harm by sticking a stent in someone's aorta, etc) The nurse couldn't have told the DVLA - she doesn't have the authority. But it's most likely a dismissable offence for her not to report whatever to the Consultant in charge of her doing that job. Then he has to fill in forms. It creates a lot of paperwork. They have to put their GMC Registration number on them - and none of them ever remember it although apparently they really do have to have it on them whilst at work. (I mean - I've seen the proof of that, both at the hosp and at the opticians) Oh and they hate having to do it too! - they don't like having to play Big Brother either - but again - they'd most likely get the sack if they didn't follow those rules encumbent on their job !

And so, that makes it 'special'?? Many people have to live with a disability for the rest of their lives, but hey, they just get on with it. And I cant recall anyone calling another stupid about anything....unless you count irresponsible, a word you yourself mentioned??

No it doesn't make us 'special', although I do have to say now I think about it - so thanks for enquiring! - do any other conditions require the patient themselves to adjust every bloody dose of their medication - so that will be a minimum of 4 times every day, more likely 5, and of course every time they fancy a biscuit a packet of crisps or a piece of fruit in between. Most drugs for most other medical conditions come in pre-set amounts I believe? - and also do all the other stuff we have to do, to accommodate the thing. So perhaps that' males us just 'a bit different' - cos usually the doctor tells you how much of a drug to take and when to take it too for the best results. Since each diabetic is quite different - no two diabetics will have the same regime. It isn't a matter of doing the same thing every day and you'll be alright - cos you won't!

Insulin in fact is a chemical copy of a natural hormone though, not a drug at all. But in that constant adjustment - insulin is, I think, unique.

 

[bernardfeay]

I am going to agree with Sedge and disagree with Tootles. And, of course, I will give my reasons. If the government on the advice of medical experts decide that certain medical conditions pose a hazard to drivers and other road users then I am obliged to take notice. The argument along the lines of "my granny smoked 40 a day and lived to 93" don't hold any sway with me.

The laws are broad brush rules that are intended to protect the majority at the risk of upsetting the few. Some people can drive safely with a massive blood alcohol content but the law overrules them and rightly so. Some drivers are very skilled and competent when they are doing 100 mph plus on the motorway; they can avoid collisions, they can break to avoid incident. But again the law punishes them.

Tootles makes the point "you can't legislate for a dodgy ticker", maybe not but it does appear that this discussion thread says "yes you can".

 

[sedge]

Tootles makes the point "you can't legislate for a dodgy ticker", maybe not but it does appear that this discussion thread says "yes you can".

I would have to add the word 'sometimes' to the end of that sentence, Bernard! LOL

 

[sedge]

The question still is, 'Would us doing this make it easier for you yourself to do a particular thing?' - so the rest of the thread is entirely off topic.

Didn't we used to have a 'Thread Hijacked' one?

(Ooh, think that might be my diabetes forum LOL)

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[Tootles]

The Hippocratic Oath - which doctor's take! - confers a duty of care upon them in the words 'First do no harm' - so if they think a person is likely to come to harm by doing something fairly common in everyday life - the duty is upon them to try and prevent that happening in whatever way they can. So firstly they tell you that, if they really think you don't agree with what they say (for any reason) then really, they should go and get the Consultant - or at least, the Duty Houseman - to talk to you and try and persuade you

And so, this means nothing then, even though it is supposed to be the 'modern' version of the oath??

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

So basically, doctors, surgeons, and healthcare professionals are now not to be trusted?

 

[Puddleduck]

do any other conditions require the patient themselves to adjust every bloody dose of their medication - so that will be a minimum of 4 times every day, more likely 5, and of course every time they fancy a biscuit a packet of crisps or a piece of fruit in between. Most drugs for most other medical conditions come in pre-set amounts I believe? - and also do all the other stuff we have to do, to accommodate the thing.

I can think of two conditions right off that the patient controls by adjustment of medication dosage Sedge.

1) Those select enough to have to inject cortisol - except there is no easy or even quick blood test and the patient has to analyse how they are feeling and responding to stress / life etc. Blood Pressure changes during exercise can be a clue....

2) Those on the pilot scheme to manage INR and warfarin. INR does have an easy blood test and the method is almost identical to the test diabetics do (although the test measures something else entirely of course).


Personally I like to be in control and responsible for my own well being. I am always better and have more stability when I "do it myself" rather than have a third party take over.

 

[Tackle man]

DVLA want to know whether diabetics would like to tell them about our medical problems online instead of post or phone?

Yes PLEASE - much quicker hopefully as everything posted has to be scanned before it gets on their system so if you need to speak to them about it, that takes even longer meanwhile you have no idea whether it even got there!

Please complete this Survey from them

https://www.snapsurveys.com/wh/s.asp?k=142591000740

Perhaps you would like to put this very important information on the Diabetes group @sedge

Thank you
Dave

 

[sedge]

I toyed whether to or not Dave but then thought, shedloads of folk on here will have family members with D but won't be members of the Group and they could see it and email it to them - whereas those of us in the Group will still see it in Chat anyway, won't we?

Bearing in mind I wanted to disseminate this as far as possible not just the Chosen ones LOL - I did think this was the best way.

You are of course correct Puddleduck BUT I don't believe you have to adjust and calculate cortisol quite as frequently !! The INR is obviously new as it's a pilot scheme, so I didn't know about it. I know W is only once a day and more precise timing is one of the big factors there but don't know if the INR is once or more? Sounds great, great drug when you need it - but always been a PITA having to see a vampire so frequently with it. Will help if you are an inpatient too I should think, because you can self monitor & manage, same as we do our diabetes (unless literally incapable - we are offered the choice when we are able bodied and have the mental capacity)

Toots - suggest you go and ask the GMC if you really want to know, because it has nob all to do with this thread.

 

[Tootles]

because it has nob all to do with this thread.

Sorry sedge, didn't realise you were with the 'Thread Police'. Maybe you could get a group area, and then no one else could read your posts??

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[Tackle man]

I toyed whether to or not Dave but then thought, shedloads of folk on here will have family members with D but won't be members of the Group and they could see it and email it to them - whereas those of us in the Group will still see it in Chat anyway, won't we?

Yes, on reflection a good idea sedge.

There must be quite a few funsters who have diabetes but don't want to join the group so wouldn't read the content anyway.

Dave

 

[FreddyBB]

Thanks Sedge, I have completed the DVLA survey.

Mixed feelings with regards to some of the earlier comments. I remember getting the 'good' news that I would have to commence taking insulin and that my licence would be revoked due to a couple of black-outs that I'd had. Subsequently, having got myself sorted out I applied for the return of my driving licence and received the B,BE licence. I was happy with that and spent some years happily tugging a caravan around the UK. Sadly, my wife was not confident enough to drive a big MB estate and Coachman Laser caravan and we restricted our trips to the UK with me doing all the driving.

Returning by car from Spain through France last autumn, my wife and I could not help but notice the number of motorhomes parked up near places of interest. Then discovered the wonderful world of Aires! We we immediately smitten, got home, tidied the caravan and sold it. Then we made a big mistake, perhaps! We fell in love with a Carthago chic and then, too late, realised that I would have to attempt to regain my C1 licence before we could complete the purchase. That process started early last December when I requested all the relevant paperwork from DVLA. The process is in several stages and I am now waiting to see a DVLA Diabetes Specialist on 10th April to complete the third and final stage. Hopefully, if all goes well, I could get my licence sometime near the end of April and then get my hands on my dream motorhome. Fingers double, triple crossed.

It has, without doubt, been a long process. However, on reflection, I fully agree with Sedge. I will be driving a 5000Kg vehicle and it is only right that I and the State should take every precaution. I have certainly learnt to be patient and my wife Betty and I are really looking forward to our next big adventure.