Do you REALLY own your MH?

mikebeaches

mikebeaches

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Just listened to a tale of woe on BBC Radio 4 - on the consumer programme You and yours

Lady bought an ex-rental motorhome in good faith from Ubeatable Motorhome Hire for £24k+ in 2018.

In August this year, out of the blue, she received a letter from a solicitor advising she didn't own the van, and it sounded as though she'll lose it!

Apparently, there are a number of folk in a similar position. Also a significant number of people who invested in buying a new motorhome using a chattel mortgage, have been caught out too.

The recording is on the BBC Sounds website or app: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000pfcs and the story begins at exactly 23 minutes and 50 seconds in to the programme and lasts for just under 7 minutes.

It's a sobering story... :unsure:
 
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Thus isn't an uncommon scam. Several dodgy motorhome dealers do this then go bust. I had a situation a couple of years ago and lost over £20,000. Recently a dealer in Scotland operated the same type of money raising scam before going bust. Nice earner if you gave no scruples.
 
bobsnicholson@ said:
Spose another reason to buy new.
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Don't think that'll protect you - seem to recall a similar case a couple of years back, a bona fide dealer going bankrupt without paying back the chattel mortgages on recent sales.
There was quite a discussion here - but can't recall the dealer.

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So what's the answer to be 100% safe. Good chance we will be buying new in the new year.
 
Why would buying new be any different?

What is the actual ownership status of new motorhomes on dealers forecourts?

I suppose if there is a mortgage on the motorhome, you should see it in the companies house register .. but it would be possible to operate several companies and you wouldn't then know which company took out the mortgage.
 
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bobsnicholson@ said:
Spose another reason to buy new.
Bought ours 2018 off a retired copper...............so i better do some checking then. 🤭
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Even new, if it's been on the forecourt for a month or so there is likely to be some form of financing on it.

The real problem here is how is Jo Public supposed to find out about these type of loans when they don't get listed on HPI, and how does Jo Public know / ensure that any loan, of any sort has been cleared as part of a purchase?
 
This as absolutely dreadful, and I genuinely feel sorry for the people who have in all good faith possibly stand to loose their beloved possession.
Surely there must be some redress against the company who sold the vehicles on, and did not advise the investors who actually owned the vehicles or saw any of the monies generated from the sale.
They also may stand to loose their investment vehicle (sic).
 
Before i hand over any dosh for the new van i will want 100% proof that the seller/dealer owns it. If they cannot show or prove or want to that they have paid their supplier and the van is theirs i simply wont buy.

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The problem is that the companies who have had these chattel type loans had no, or very limited assets of their own. They simply go bankrupt. At best the unsuspecting purchaser becomes an unsecured creditor of that assetless company. Meanwhile the chattel loan company still want's it's van back as their security was the van, and technically it wasn't the bankrupt dealer companies property to sell until they cleared the chattel loan. Of course those who ran the bankrupt company, allowing the vans to be sold without clearing the chattel, will have acted fraudulently, but that isn't going to get the money back.
 
bobsnicholson@ said:
Before i hand over any dosh for the new van i will want 100% proof that the seller/dealer owns it. If they cannot show or prove or want to that they have paid their supplier and the van is theirs i simply wont buy.
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Sellers and dealers rarely own the stock they hold its normally the Bank there is often quite a few Million sitting on a forecourt I suspect there is a difference between a Chattle mortgage and other dealer stock type financing. When I brought my last transporter earlier this year it was brand new but sitting at the VW dealer it was owned by Lloyds finance I pay the dealer the dealer pays Lloyds and it shows up via HPI the Chattel Mortgages do not, so it would look like the dealer owns the vehicle and is why people are caught up in the scam.
 
Dealer stocking loans are common across most industries especially any type of vehicle, tractor, lorry, caravan, motorhome, plant & machinery etc. Obviously the finance should be paid off when the vehicle is sold but clearly this is not done by the unscrupulous minority.

In the motor trade main dealer franchises tend to be funded by the motor manufacturers stocking loans for their own make new vehicle stocks and registering the new vehicle sale triggers the clearing of the finance.

The secondhand market is more problematic so if you are buying used you need to be especially careful as there is no independent notice to the financier that the goods have been sold so he can claim his money back from the dealer.
 
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bobsnicholson@ said:
Before i hand over any dosh for the new van i will want 100% proof that the seller/dealer owns it. If they cannot show or prove or want to that they have paid their supplier and the van is theirs i simply wont buy.
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How do they prove there is no mortgage/loan on it? It's easy to prove a positive , but very difficult to prove a negative.

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Abacist said:
Dealer stocking loans are common across most industries especially any type of vehicle, tractor, lorry, caravan, motorhome, plant & machinery etc. Obviously the finance should be paid off when the vehicle is sold but clearly this is not done by the unscrupulous minority.

In the motor trade main dealer franchises tend to be funded by the motor manufacturers stocking loans for their own make new vehicle stocks and registering the new vehicle sale triggers the clearing of the finance.

The secondhand market is more problematic so if you are buying used you need to be especially careful as there is no independent notice to the financier that the goods have been sold so he can claim his money back from the dealer.
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But what is to stop buying x vehicles from a manufacture displaying them as new yet still having a Chattle Mortgage on them and it seems the Mortgage could be moved from one vehicle to another and in the case on Radio 4 the Company Director stated they had an internal process of re-allocation rather than notifying the company that provided the Chatel Mortgage.
 
A recent bankruptcy of a dealer near me had a very good idea to fleece people. Certain motorhomes that went in for a service were refinanced by him.
The customers weren't aware of this until he went bust. He was also selling some brokered vans at a knock down price without telling the owners.
I think trust has gone from the market and it's easy saying you can be extra careful but some dealers are real crooks who go Ltd and cash in from the proceeds.
 
Gulp!!!, Anybody able to vouch for Goodmans Motorhomes Waltham Abbey? I'm sure they are kosher. They are agents for McRent, but sell off [ McRent brand vans,on behalf of Hymer], these are previous years hire stock??? They have been in business since 2007>
 
I have just been informed that the motorhome I thought I had paid for and owned
Has in fact got a chattel mortgage on it
Any ideas or help out there

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Dollysjg said:
I have just been informed that the motorhome I thought I had paid for and owned
Has in fact got a chattel mortgage on it
Any ideas or help out there
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Really sorry to hear this, citizens advise/trading standards if the company who sold it still exists. If you haven’t already listen to the BBC podcast ( the program may have updated info so it may be worth contacting the BBC as well) and maybe also get in touch with Martin Lewis organisation.
 
Isn’t it strange a finance company has the right to take a vehicle in lieu of payment, but a private landlord has no rights to take anything in lieu of non payment.
Could it be down to who’s money is invested ☹️
 
bobsnicholson@ said:
So what's the answer to be 100% safe. Good chance we will be buying new in the new year.
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same as we did by new and pay for it on the day. done!
and even better if they will let you pay amex, get a sh**load of points aswell plus some protection.

I have been drumming into my kids since young to save up and get a few quid behind them in the bank then use their own bank as the lender, soon as they borrow repay till the balance is back up.
Sure they waited a few years longer then their frineds for the "hot car" or the newest trainers, but now they are all in their twenties and debt free they undertsand and are thankful for the advice.

\Too many youngsters want it ALL right now

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